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Artglass Sales Update

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Artglass has come up in a few threads lately. I thought that those of us using it can update how we like it and is it making money.

I've been selling it for 3 months now and have been selling 4 cases per month. I framed one sample piece with it in 18x24 and just point it out when the goal isn't the least expensive possible framing. I haven't really worked at promoting it and am going through a box per week.

I started selling it as an upgrade from generic clear at a price of $20 in 16x20, $30 in 18x24, $60 in 24x36 and $80 in 32x40. I'm only using the non-UV since I am still using up my Museum glass. Over a dozen boxes and I haven't found a flaw.

The glass is as easy to handle and clean as generic clear glass but looks great. The fact that I don't have to worry about waste is why I can sell it so inexpensively. Several of my artists and photographers have been using it lately and love the look and the price.
 
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Julie Walsh

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I've been using it for almost 2 years and love it!!! I have several shadowboxes examples framed with it on display and literally, all I do is point. I have had a few shiny specs in it, but they do buff out.
 

Riverwood

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Is this the glass made by Schott?
Thanks
 

Riverwood

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Thanks Jeff.
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Ill add my 2 cents.

the AR version of ART glass or the regular ART glass as some might call it, I haven't really found any flaws... a couple of shiny spots, but nothing major

Their UV stuff, I have found a couple. Still less then I found in my last boxes of TRU vue.

I too sell it for a lower price. not quite as low as jeff, and bascially have the scraps sitting out like regular glass because its very hard to dmg. at least it takes as much to dmg like regular glass... no more babying the glass and hope it sits on the shelf without dmg whne you try to use it again.

he must be getting a much better price then me to sell it as low as he is.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Who is your ArtGlass supplier? I've checked the 3 suppliers in Minnesota and it seems non carry it.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Omega and AMPF carry it around here. I'll get a complete list of who carries it.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thank you - I'll check with Omega and see what the cost of shipping is. Hopefully I can get a box in to see how it goes.
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Less Loves it

Less sells alot of it - makes Less hate working with TV now.

Wish they made every size. Less would stock all of them. More or Less.

Less needs more Stickers!
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I finally got a chance to see it "in person" at WCAF. The durability factor is pretty amazing. Even scratching it with a boxcutter blade did not seem to faze it.
:cool: Rick
 

JWB9999999

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I also had a chance to see this at WCAF. The staff there was very informative and helpful, and the product seemed much better than anything I could have imagined. The stuff just doesn't scratch, and fingerprints wipe off so easily, the color pass through is even better than museum glass, etc. I really think that if I can find it at an acceptable price, I would love to carry the stuff. But none of my local suppliers carry it yet.
 

KPF

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I just purchased a 10 case mix of Artglass AR, UV, 32x40" & 40x60"

I love the product. What really sold me on it is it's scratch resistance. Easy to handle & clean. And it looks beautiful.
(If you look at Tru-Vue Museum the wrong way, it gets a scratch...)
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I have been using the Ultra from TV for the past 6 months or so since a promo had it 1/3 less in price than Artglass. I love me some water white glass. :icon21:
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Interesting. I don't like the TV stuff much in that version Jeff. It can scratch pretty easily, and is much harder to clean then the ART glass.

its more of a sticky feel to it then ARTs smooth feel.

I think ART went down in price for me, so I don't need to use the TV stuff.

I think I sell 6 to 7 boxes a month between ART and ART UV
 

DarthFramer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Easy to handle
In the shop that is what I love - Less $ than MG is just a bonus.
In the customer's home - Looks great, their happy and it cleans up.
In the great "Conservation Debate" - OK, MG is 97% and ArtGlass is 92% * "standards" say 97% is the winner by rule.
In the process of making a customer happy - Most love the look & the framer for providing them a choice. MG has its place and AG has its. I only hope Omega now does not let TV force them out of offering AG. As in any business - choice of product, sevice, design, etc. makes us all better. :soapbox: Thanks for the update info on TV water white.
Darth
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Love Artglass, but

now that TV has started a price war, I have switched to UltraVue. Although, I have to say Artglass is a better prouct from a handling and defect point of Vue.

I wish Artglass would be price competitive so I can buy it agian.

TrueVue's quality control is terrible. There is no other way to put it.
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
In Fact

if TV does not do something about their quality issues, I may switch back anyway.

The free box of glass, and credits from time to time is what keeps me coming back....I mean Less.
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
if TV does not do something about their quality issues, I may switch back anyway.

The free box of glass, and credits from time to time is what keeps me coming back....I mean Less.
I don't worry about it. un-less you lower the price to your customers does it matter what you pay for it?

I guess you make a little more, but the extra effort is not worth the lower price to me... of course that is just me...
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I only buy the Ultra in 36x48 & 40x60 and have not found a flaw in it yet. Since I am not using the UV in either product I have never seen a scratch in either brand.
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I only buy the Ultra in 36x48 & 40x60 and have not found a flaw in it yet. Since I am not using the UV in either product I have never seen a scratch in either brand.
I am not saying the TV is scratched. Maybe others are... it just scratches easier then ART. Again, just my findings. I know most of you won't agree... and I don't get it... but that is ok. :)
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Cat Scratch Fever da da da cat scratch fever da da da

I'm seeing scratches in almost every box, and no it is not me or Less.
 

jim_p

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I currently sell MG as my premium glass product. I've been considering switching to Art Glass UV, but I can't justify spriigng for a whole box of the stuff just to try it out. I wish they sold sample packs the way TV does...
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I currently sell MG as my premium glass product. I've been considering switching to Art Glass UV, but I can't justify spriigng for a whole box of the stuff just to try it out. I wish they sold sample packs the way TV does...
just buy a box. you wont' regret it...
 
T

Tom Reigle

Guest
jim_p, have ya heard this one yet? How many votes of confidence does it take to convince a framer that a product is reallly good?

Answer: One more than the total no matter how many there are!! ............................ Ha! I crack myself up sometimes. :icon21:

So, I ask you, would one more vote make a difference in your "risk level" in trying a new and innovative form of framing glass? If so, ya got it from me now! That stuff is great! It is easy to clean, almost smear proof, and it disappears to the point where customers will put finger marks all over it just to see if there really is glass in the display!! AMPF dropped off one of their Artglass displays for us not too long ago and it has two small sheets of reg. glass on either side of a small sheet of Artglass and, if the light is right, you will swear that there is an open space between those two pieces of reg. glass!

"Nuff said 'bout that"!!
 

jim_p

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Okay, here's another kwestion: how does Art Glass reflect bright light? I just got a complaint from a customer who bought MG, took the thing home, and believes I may have cheated him because he can see the reflection from the bright window behind him when he faces the picture. Would AG work any better in this regard?
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Okay, here's another kwestion: how does Art Glass reflect bright light? I just got a complaint from a customer who bought MG, took the thing home, and believes I may have cheated him because he can see the reflection from the bright window behind him when he faces the picture. Would AG work any better in this regard?
Don't tell anyone, but two weeks ago a customer and I compared the two, and we think museum has a very slight advantage in controlling reflection. I'll do a couple of tests this afternoon to see if this is so.
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Okay, here's another kwestion: how does Art Glass reflect bright light? I just got a complaint from a customer who bought MG, took the thing home, and believes I may have cheated him because he can see the reflection from the bright window behind him when he faces the picture. Would AG work any better in this regard?
I always tell people if the picture faces a window you will get some glare from it, but you should still be able to see the image, and that its still the best glass that is out there.

So... I would say the last part to him, and say everything else would make the image glare out so he wouldn't see it.

so no, art glass would not be any better in this situation.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Here's the simple answer:

Easy to see the superior glare control of museum. Didn't notice this until I compared with a customer. Anyone out there disagree?

glass.jpg
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
And just for fun, here is a comparison of Artglass, museum and regular.

threeglasses.jpg
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Okay, here's another kwestion: how does Art Glass reflect bright light? I just got a complaint from a customer who bought MG, took the thing home, and believes I may have cheated him because he can see the reflection from the bright window behind him when he faces the picture. Would AG work any better in this regard?
It still shows the brightest reflections but eliminates all the clutter, I show side by side examples, so they know what they are getting.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
If you can get by the difference in reflective qualities, Artglass still is clearer, and makes colors jump a bit more.
 

Puppiesonacid

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If you can get by the difference in reflective qualities, Artglass still is clearer, and makes colors jump a bit more.
I think it reflects a little more because its not as green or purple of tint... but yes its clearer like you say
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think it reflects a little more because its not as green or purple of tint... but yes its clearer like you say
The photos posted show more tint than MG, not less.

How much clearer? 1% clearer (98% vs. 97% transmission) according to the specifications for ArtGlass UV and ArtGlass Protect, 2% clearer for ArtGlass Water White, and no difference for ArtGlass Clear.

Again, Musum Glass never has been comparable to ArtGlass. A valid comparison would be ArtGlass vs. UltraVue, which is directly comparable; 2 mm water-white with only optical coatings.



Still working with Tru Vue...
 

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Museum glass may not be comparable to artglass, but it is comparable to artglass UV, in that it is AR and has a high level of UV protection - not as high as museum and not high enough to meet PPFA, ISO and also FATG levels - but still - at 92% - high, no matter - no-one can say that a level that high can count for nothing.

Then there's the ease of cleaning/handling. It seems to me that Groglass, who make artglass, are listening, and have produced something that might not meet certain standards, but comes DANGED close with artglass UV and now they have produced an AR glass that is scratch-resistant, you can clean it with 0000 grade steel wool - is it just a matter of time until they can come up with a similar product that juuuuuust scrapes in to that magical 97%?

I reckon and certainly hope, so.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
- but still - at 92% - high, no matter - no-one can say that a level that high can count for nothing.
... - is it just a matter of time until they can come up with a similar product that juuuuuust scrapes in to that magical 97%?
Robo, the optical coatings from all makers, as far as I know, utilize reflective technology. That means their effectiveness diminishes with the angle of incidence. You can see this phenomenon in ordinary display conditions. As your viewing angle moves away from straight-on perpendicular toward a side angle view, you can see the anti-reflective quality of any anti-reflection glass product (regardless of brand) diminish. At a viewing angle of about 60 degrees, the anti-reflection quality is nearly gone, and the UV filtering capability diminishes, as well.

On the other hand, the separate coating (or additives to adhesives in laminated glass) from all makers, which are dedicated to filtering UV radiation, utilize absorptive technology. That means their effectiveness remains the same at all angles of incidence.

So, if a manufacturer comes up with a reflective coating to block up to 97% of UV radiation, it still would not meet the ISO 18902 standard, which is based on absorptive technology.

Of course, when technology progresses beyond the present reflective and absorptive coatings, then we could see amazing changes. For example, if picture glass could be coated to block all light on command, something like "Transition" eyeglass lenses with a switch, then framed art could receive the benefit of dark storage at all times, except when it is actually being viewed.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
The best thing about Artglass is that it now provides framers with a choice.
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
The best thing about Artglass is that it now provides framers with a choice.
Yes, but one that requires explanation as to why it does not meet a well known industry standard - an awkward position to be in.

A more interesting discussion would focus on what art does not require extra UV protection, because of durable pigments or B & W, allowing the proper use of Artglass (non UV) and Ultraview.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Of course, when technology progresses beyond the present reflective and absorptive coatings, then we could see amazing changes. For example, if picture glass could be coated to block all light on command, something like "Transition" eyeglass lenses with a switch, then framed art could receive the benefit of dark storage at all times, except when it is actually being viewed.

Check this out, then... http://electricglasswall.com/

This isn't some new technology. It's been out since the early 80's.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Yes, but one that requires explanation as to why it does not meet a well known industry standard - an awkward position to be in.

...
It wouldn't be awkward at all for me to explain to my customer what their options are and let them decide if they want to pay for that extra 4% reduction in UV transmission. Some people choose SPF 50 when protecting their skin at the beach, others SPF 15, and still others none at all. An informed choice is what's important, because not everyone wants or needs everything they frame to outlive them. We can now offer a product that provides nearly as much protection at a substantial cost savings, offering a better margin, with less aggravation, and at a price point that appeals to a larger segment of the market. Not hard at all to explain. There's a place for Artlgass and a place for Museum Glass.
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
It's 7% vs. the above standard Museum Glass and that's ignoring the reflective vs. absorptive issue that Jim raised.

If you're selling conservation, just saying...
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
It's 7% vs. the above standard Museum Glass and that's ignoring the reflective vs. absorptive issue that Jim raised.

If you're selling conservation, just saying...
Regardless, the point is that for a whole lot less money, a customer can get nearly as much protection. It's another option, it provides a high level of UV protection and offers benefits to framers and customers. I applaud its availability.
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Regardless, the point is that for a whole lot less money, a customer can get nearly as much protection. It's another option, it provides a high level of UV protection and offers benefits to framers and customers. I applaud its availability.
I agree that more choices and competition are a good thing, but I don't know about "a whole lot less money." I know I'm not supposed to talk about wholesale prices here, so I am going to try to be as vague as possible, and if this needs to be removed I understand. With the supplier I buy from the price difference between Museum and Art Glass in dollars per case can be counted on one hand. Is my wholesaler just trying to make more money on the Art Glass, or is there really not a significant difference in price? I'm in the "...just business" group if anyone wants to discuss specifics over there.

Ed
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
choice is good

yes, it is good to have choice, especially with TV's QC issues.
 
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