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Attachment Disorder

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by shayla, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    How would you attach a piece of matboard mounted on foam core to this and hang it on the wall? That's what the customer basically wants, (with no glazing). It's fine if we back it with gator/strainer, whatever, as long as it fits fine and can be hung. Not sure what to do, as there's not much to work with. These photos show the back of the 'frame', and as you can see, the corners aren't connected in back. The only nod toward hanging is three wee slits the engineer cut in the top of the top rail, but they're only 1/16" wide. I can imagine making a strainer with hangers, and attaching the front pieces to that, but how would you attach that to the frame? No spacers between front of frame and matboard. Must hang flush to the wall. The overall size is about 24 x 32". cut out earth frame resized.jpg cut-out earth detail 2 resize.JPG cut-out earth detail 3 corner.JPG
     
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  2. David Hewitt

    David Hewitt CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I make strainers supports out of 3/4 x 1 1/2 x 6ft, select pine that I get at Home Depot. That with3/16 foam and1/16 mat will perfectly fill your 1 inch space.
    You could mount with small screws using the provided slots on top, and ask if you could drill two small holes on the bottom to secure it there. (counter sink for a flush fit)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  3. MATTHEW HALE

    MATTHEW HALE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    will your client allow you to drill holes in the sides? if so, some nice neat countersunk holes with screws into the strainer would do the trick. Just like most wood strainers are installed in steel or aluminum frames from A Street, Smallcorp, Bridger, etc.
     
  4. echavez123

    echavez123 MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Looks like the piece is heavy steel. Hmm. Suggestion:
    1) Hanger:
    Cut a piece of wood, ~ 3/4" x 2" x W, where w is the inner width, minus about 2". This is attached level and anchored to the wall as the hanger - kind of like a cleat. This holds the weight of the frame. Then, use small screws through the 3 slits on top to keep the frame from sliding off. Do not tighten the screws all the way. You could use finishing nails instead and leave the head exposed about 1/8 to 1/4 inch. Because the frame is hanging from the top lip, this will cause the rest of the frame to pull downward and towards the wall, keeping it flush.

    2) Attach matting and foam.

    This is easy to test, if you have a wall where you can mount the hanger.
     
  5. Lafontsee

    Lafontsee CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I agree with the others about adding a strainer and screwing through the sides of the piece (if allowed). If you bevel the wood you use for the strainer you will have a built-in french cleat that will hang flush to the wall as well.

    James
     
  6. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    It looks like it was meant to hang from brackets into the two slots in the top rail, or I'm guessing maybe this was mounted over a lightbox panel.
    :cool: Rick
     
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  7. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    They made it just or this project. Guys who usually use their big boy toys to make complex machinery, and are doing this as a sort of in-house project when an employee retires. Did a few a couple of years ago,
    and they added these funky, one-time-use, tabs of the same metal to hold it in the back. Also had one-time-only bending parts on the back to which a wire was attached. I told them that, if the metal was soft
    enough to easily bend, it was soft enough to give way over time. This time, they tried it this way, and hoped it would work. I think the 'screws through the top and bottom into a strainer' idea is a good one.
     
  8. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    We're making a wooden strainer. Our customer doesn't like the idea of screw holes, so asked if we could silicone it to the steel frame. (The strainer is shallower than the frame, so it hangs flush to the wall.) What silicone works for wood to metal?
     
  9. MnSue

    MnSue SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    shayla likes this.
  10. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Personally, I think silicone would make a big mess but not necessarily be reliable in the long run. I don't see why screws would look objectionable, since the who thing is rather "industrial" anyway, but if you MUST use adhesive I'm guessing that it will need to be "industrial" strength.
    :cool: Rick
     
  11. MATTHEW HALE

    MATTHEW HALE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

  12. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    I thought of it, but we need something that can be tinkered with if we put it in and the front text is a bit crooked. VHB is pretty unforgiving that way.
     
  13. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    I like that option. She did, too, in past chats. Then, she came in, and when I started talking about screws, she said she wanted adhesive.
    I said words about how they're shipping it to across the country, and it needs to be sturdy enough to be dropped along the way. Still wants adhesive.
     
  14. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I would have her sign a release saying that you recommended mechanical fasteners and that any re-do necessary because of failure of the adhesive is not included in the cost of your framing.
    A closure that is not re-accessible make me nervous in any case.
    :cool: Rick
     
    shayla likes this.
  15. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Looking at the photos, the bends of the sides are not lined up to an even 90° on all 4 sides. That is the fault of the shop that did the fabrication and not you. They also gave no thought whatsoever as to how to hang the item. The proper "industrial" way to attach a backing is to use tabs or a flange to secure the backing. These tabs if they were not originally designed into the item would be attached via screws, rivets, welding, braising, or soldering.
    If you look at the auto industry today, most of the formerly welded or mechanically fastened joints are glued together with superstrong polyurethane based adhesives.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
    shayla likes this.
  16. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    We did the silicone she wanted, but I wanted something sturdier. Screwed flat mending plates to the back of the inset wooden strainer frame, with the tips of them just fitting into the metal slots. There was a bit of wiggle, so I shimmed behind with a metal washer. It's kind of weird, how the walls weren't attached, (re: Jerry's observation). This company is an industry leader in designing machinery, but their retirement gifts must not get the A-team.
     
    Rick Granick and Jim Miller like this.
  17. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Next time use Marine epoxy and glue in a strip of wood (1/4" X depth of frame) that creates the cheek of the rabbet. I've done that on custom shaped aluminum frames and it works fine. After that you can treat it as if it was a normal frame. Add a strainer if you want, or attach a cleat style hanger. Here's a quick X- IMG_1644.JPG section drawing...
     
    shayla likes this.
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