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Become the new owner of the Grumble

UzZx32QU

Administrator
Staff member
22 years is enough.
If you understand how to use a Linux server, done some coding in any language(PHP is used). There will be setup and cost to run a server. I ran it out of my frameshop on a linux server for 16 years. Currently it is run on a VPN which is rented by the quarter. Convince me you really want to be the owner and will commit to keeping the Grumble alive and I will hand over the ownership.

Start a conversation if interested for more info.

framer
 
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UzZx32QU

Administrator
Staff member
So far only those that want to exploit the database for their own use have come forward. If no one comes to the rescue by the end of January TheGrumble will go dark. A group could take it over. Feel free to discuss it on this thread.

Thanks
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
Thanks for keeping the integrity in tact.
I kinda figured you would get a few carpetbaggers, and I knew finding a new owner that would be willing to let it run as it has would be difficult.
It's a bit ironic that there seems to be a bit of new life in the forums, but I don't think it is enough to pursued anyone to change their mind about taking over.
A lot of contacts will be lost.
If it finds a new owner, great! If not, it's been a great ride thanks to you.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
The exodus to Facebook has pulled a lot of the significant contributors away, so maybe framers think the Grumble is a technologically-obsolete forum. Personally, I think the organization of topics on this forum is much more useful than the here-today, gone-tomorrow format of topics on Facebook.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that a sincere, potential new owner has not emerged. Surely somebody out there has the will and the expertise to do it; I wish I did.

Bill, you have done an excellent job for all these years, and nobody could say you haven't done enough. If the Grumble must go dark, it will be a sad loss to the entire framing community.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Would this joint be less expensive to run if there were fewer pages? Like, does it really need 134 pages of commercial posts or the commercial posts Feedback pages which no one has used in 6 years?
Database space for storing pages is cheap. The present server has 50G of storage and using less than half of that so you could have twice as much as we do now. A new owner might not want to mess with anything until they know the system well.

That being said, if we get a new owner, a housekeeping might be in order.

I have considered it but am leaning against it. No advertising income, the costs of the server plus being a big time suck and no moderators to assist.

The realistic outcome might be that theG goes away.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...I have considered it but am leaning against it. No advertising income, the costs of the server plus being a big time suck and no moderators to assist.
Larry, if you have the expertise to take over and run it, you could do the industry a great service.

The current sad state of The Grumble does not have to continue as is - it must be improved if it is to thrive, and I want to believe it can be accomplished. Surely, Grumble activity could be regenerated if the active members would refer to it on Facebook forums. And if the activity returns, maybe sponsors would, too.

How much money would it cost to run the forum? Maybe it could be raised from interested framers. I recall sending some contributions in the past, and would be willing to do so again - maybe others would, as well.

Regarding the investment of time involved, maybe others could help. I'm guessing monitors could be recruited once again to share the daily workload.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
So far only those that want to exploit the database for their own use have come forward.
Bill, could you be more specific about what "exploit the database for their own use" means?

I would just like to understand the situation. As business owners, most of us understand the need for some return on investment. If operating this forum would help to promote or maintain some other framing-related business interest, would that be a problem?
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Bill, could you be more specific about what "exploit the database for their own use" means?

I would just like to understand the situation. As business owners, most of us understand the need for some return on investment. If operating this forum would help to promote or maintain some other framing-related business interest, would that be a problem?
I'm pretty sure that those of us who follow the industry and the players like the soap opera that it is, have a pretty good idea of who would have the capability and motivation to be the one he is referencing. You could probably talk to that party directly to see what the objectionable plan was.

Ed
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I'm pretty sure that those of us who follow the industry and the players like the soap opera that it is, have a pretty good idea of who would have the capability and motivation to be the one he is referencing. You could probably talk to that party directly to see what the objectionable plan was.

Ed
Sorry, Ed. Maybe I'm just too far out of the loop, but I don't know who "that party" is, and I'm not sure knowing a name would matter, and maybe there's more than one.

And I'd still like to know how someone exploiting the database for their own use would be a problem, if the deal could assure that the forum would thrive again, or at least continue to operate.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
And I'd still like to know how someone exploiting the database for their own use would be a problem, if the deal could assure that the forum would thrive again, or at least continue to operate.
They might want it to try to sell carp.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
They might want it to try to sell carp.
Could be, but if that is a workable business strategy - that is, if framers respond and participate - then why not? We're all speculating.

Anyway, one framer's carp is another framer's treasure, eh? ;)
 

Framar

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
When the Grumble was at its strongest there was brief talk about supporting Bill by sending him donations every year on his birthday. This discussion died a swift and silent death - Facebook came along which was "free."

A lot of people still do not realize that Facebook is not "free" - they mine our data every second of every day. Which tech giant used to have the motto about not being evil? Hah!

Heck, there are people out there who crow about Amazon Prime and its "free" shipping. (And Amazon Prime costs how much every year now?)

I dunno . . .
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
How much money would it cost to run the forum? Maybe it could be raised from interested framers. I recall sending some contributions in the past, and would be willing to do so again - maybe others would, as well.
I agree that framers should be interested in a month or annual fee to keep the Grumbles going, I know I sure would, but there has been so many times, even here on the Grumble, people think they should be able to get everything for nothing. If the Grumble does go dark we will then really know how important and valuable the Grumble is to the framing industry. Just the archives alone is worth the an annual fee to be able to get information at your finger tips. I am totally computer illiterate or I would have an interest, it does take skills to operate something like this. FB just doesn't do it for me and I believe is really on it's way out, not near as many people use FB anymore and there is link after link explaining why.

And I'd still like to know how someone exploiting the database for their own use would be a problem, if the deal could assure that the forum would thrive again, or at least continue to operate.
I would like to know how it would be a problem too. If this is still a member only information based format who would give a darn if the new owner would promoted their mats or moulding or what-ever-else and make some money doing it. I believe this could be profitable for some company to take on which I wouldn't mind seeing. Oh well, we will know what is going to happen to the Grumble in the next few week, I sure will miss it if it were to go away.
 

Framar

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
What about losing the interactive part and storing the Grumble somewhere as an navigable archive? Between my domain name and my web host, my shop's website (which consists of only one page) (I pay for way more!) costs less than $100 per year.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
How much does ease of access on mobile phones affect participation on the Grumble? Simple convenience drives the success of so much. If it were easier, would there be more participation, including both members and advertisers? This might make it a more attractive/viable platform for potential management. This forums format and archive are a great resource for framers, and it would be great if its beneficial effect can continue.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I received a very nice convo from a long time grumbler thanking me for years of advice. I was unaware of pending demise and he wanted to share his appreciation . I used to participate more frequently but may I offer an opinion regarding the less robust participation? I have been blessed to have found success in this industry and offered another approach to another way of doing biz. Often it was met with some pretty personal resistance and it became less 'collegial'.
The greatest benefits from this site was the incredible sharing of knowledge and the opportunity to 'met' many truly great people. That opportunity might be lost as the 'golden age' of the grumble may easily disappear. I know i personally 'received' more than I gave
I will always be thankful
 

Stephen Enggass

True Grumbler
I am new to all of this but have found this board very helpful in a very brief amount of time. I myself looked for groups on Facebook as well, but am hard pressed to find anything close to the resource of this group provides. What is the Fscebook competition? I would keep this going if I knew how. How much time does it take to managing it? What knowledge is required? Curious. Thank you.
 

Dirk

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
One more casualty of form over function?
Facebook is, and always has been, about appearances. If the legend is true, its genesis involved some ivy-league twerp (who couldn't get a date), rating chicks on campus.
While the Grumble does include a social aspect, it is an invaluable technical resource, especially for newbies like me. I doubt there are many other industries that can boast of having such a forum. And if they do, how many can brag of having so many veterans willing to generously share their expertise. Though traffic may be down, perhaps that's a blessing in disguise. Facebook et al are great places to satisfy the desire in some to engage in soap-opera intrigue.
Count me as willing to pay for membership. Ostensibly free services on the internet just disguise the fact that the user is the product.
Maybe, PPFA should grant Framer a doctorate. It would be well-deserved.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
One more casualty of form over function?.....Maybe, PPFA should grant Framer a doctorate. It would be well-deserved.
.

Whoever you are, let's get married.
.
.

I sure hope someone takes over the Grumble. It's an amazing resource. I'm not sure if industry suppliers realize how many customers they've gotten from references given here. We've added suppliers/products based on recommendations. Have read framing magazines for years, but there's something wonderful about these exchanges with framers from all walks. It's a great education.
 
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Mike Labbe

Member, Former moderator team volunteer
It's refreshing to see so many people coming back to use the forum lately, and I completely agree that it should continue and not go dark.

The generous peer sharing of information without profit, neutrality, and non commercialism have always been a winning formula, IMO. It should continue, as an excellent resource for the framing industry.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
The only other site I have found that is as extensive and informative as this one is the Woodturners Forum.

Facebook is an instrument of the devil. :faintthud:
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
if the grumble goes dark...a black hole void in the learning fro framers will be lost....
Maybe if more details of taking over the grumble (costs time etc) were shared, a person would step forward?
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Maybe David Waldman could do it. He has more employees than any of us do. I'm sure somewhere in that group is an internet guru.

...Orrrr. someones 12 yr old kid. They're pretty much genetically born with internet skills!!

Personally, i can barely manage to not screw up my own site..and that is because I don't dare touch it.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm voting for Mike Labbe to take over. The man has the skills and he has been around for a long time ;) Sorry Mike, just wishful thinking on my part - but it would be nice if you did. I would gladly jump in and help where I can but I'm to much of a idiot when it comes to computers to be competent enough to do something like this on my own.:rolleyes:
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ray of Hope. 🙂

I would just like to say that I would not object to paying a subscription.
It would come under "Subscriptions to Professional Organisations" on my tax form. 😉
 

shayla

WOW Framer
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO Awesome!!!!!! All the love. 😍
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Bill... I don't how to thank you for all your years of service and I know The "G" will be in great hands in Mike's hands. It is a marvelous resource and a way we celebrate and commiserate together.

Congratulations to all of us for Mike stepping up. Thank you.
 

Framing Goddess

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thank you, Mike!!!
If you would like to "celebrate your birthday Grumble style" (by having small pictures of dead presidents sent your way,) I would be among the first to send "greetings."
Framer, thank you for being the grandfather of the Grumble. I could not imagine a framing world without this place. I met so many mentors here, I know I would not still be in business (and thriving!) without a resource like this.
Edie the eternallydigitallycentricthankstothisplace goddess
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
A bit late to the party but thank you, Bill, for all your work here. As someone who ran an online group for a while I know how much time it eats up, often without even a "thank you" from the beneficiaries. Thanks to Mike too for keeping this valuable forum alive.

Now, let's all get behind Mike and contribute regularly.
 

nikodeumus

True Grumbler
I would also be more than happy to make financial contributions to help maintain the Grumble.

There are a lot of crowdfunding services that could easily be used, such as: Go Fund Me, Patreon, Kickstarter, etc.
I've never used them myself so don't know the logistics of setting it up.
Anybody else have experience with crowdfunding services?

Or setup the Grumble website with a subscription plan?
 

nikodeumus

True Grumbler
Now that our prayers to the Framing Gods have been answered, how do we show our gratitude?
Should we all sacrifice one of our favourite frames on a pyre of matboard or something? 🔥
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
As others have already said, many thanks, Bill, for starting the Grumble and providing this fabulous resource for so many years. All the best to you.
And many thanks to Mike, master of both IT and framing business (and all-around great guy), for stepping up to see that this resource remains and thrives. This is a great community, and I feel lucky to be a part of it.
:cool: Rick
grumbler badge copy.jpg
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
Rick, those would be great tags to have at WCAF.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Thanks, Mike and Bill!:beer:
You made my day.
I hope my conversation might have been a small (tiny) part to help you make the decision....
(you can blame me later...:icon21:)
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
A subscription plans seems like a reasonable and practical idea. Maintaining any website takes time and resources, if it can't generate enough revenue to at least be self-sustaining then it won't exist.
 
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