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Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by BSiegrist, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. BSiegrist

    BSiegrist Grumbler

    Has anyone been contacted recently to ship a whole bunch of frames to a church in Liberia? I was recently emailed with a request to ship 50 metal frames to Liberia. Of course, I am very suspicious. They claim that they will pay everything up front with a credit card, all I need to do is contact a person at the shipping company with dimensions and weight and they will take care of the rest. What are your thoughts? My husband says NOOO WAY!!
    American Picture Frame Academy 1-888-840-9605

    The American Picture Framing Academy Learn Picture Framing Now
  2. snafu

    snafu MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Tell them you only accept Western Union.

  3. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Listen to your husband - hundreds if not thousands of those types of emails are received by other Grumblers and they are bogus - search spam emails, or spamming on the Grumble and you will find many of the same type of emails other Grumblers have received and how they dealt with them.
  4. bzkbz16

    bzkbz16 Grumbler

    I'd believe 'em when penguins "really" fly: :p

  5. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Why not just mail me a couple thousand dollars. At least the money you lose will remain in the U.S. economy. It will have the same financial effect on your business without the time you will lose dealing with the bank, credit card company and police who can do nothing to retrieve your losses.

    Google Nigerian Letter Scam. This has topped the FBI Fraud List since the 70's.
  6. John Golden

    John Golden CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I received a quote request yesterday through my business email account to quote 45 silver and 45 gold 32" x 32" metal frames. I am not sure if this is related to you inquiry. There has been no mention of a church in Liberia.
  7. CarolUK

    CarolUK Grumbler

    Just got the very same email.....they are spammers :nuts:
  8. Framing Goddess

    Framing Goddess SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Scam, scam, scam.
  9. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Here's an article from the New Yorker. A bit wordy, but hey, it's the New Yorker. Maybe we'll be reading one about framers soon ;)
  10. j Paul

    j Paul PFG, Picture Framing God

    Same old story, different shade of paint.

    All of those that teach courses on picture framing, should include this advisory each and every day of class.
    Steve the framer likes this.
  11. BSiegrist

    BSiegrist Grumbler

    Thanks, that puts my mind at ease. They wanted 25 gold and 25 silver metal frames to go to Monrovia, Liberia. I just wonder how they targeted us. Anyhow, I am glad to have this forum to get your opinions on. Bonnie
  12. JillHCPF

    JillHCPF Grumbler

    I emailed them back. Said I would be happy to do work for them. only requirement is US dollars cash up front. I am still waiting for a reply.:faintthud:
  13. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer


    This scam happens daily, and we get a thread on the grumble about it every couple weeks (for years).

    They're using stolen credit cards, and they also use a stolen credit card to have a local shipping company come to your store to pick up and ship the items.

    By the time the customer gets their statement and notices the fraudulent charges, the product has reached its destination and is exempt from US law.

    Guess who gets stuck with the bill when the the credit card company does a (completely valid) chargeback? YOU, the vendor. No valid signature, no ID checked, no protection :( The full amount is removed from your account, plus a chargeback fee of $25-$100.

    Seller beware :)

  14. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I think we need a sticky. Too many people must actually fall for this.
  15. coopd

    coopd Grumbler

    I was asked to "prepare" the Clearmount Mitre rig I was selling on Craigslist , to be shipped to Nigeria for the buyers grandparents. He was going to organize the pickup and was even going to give me $100 extra for my trouble. All I had to do was cash the check and wait.
    The guy used the word Kindly a lot.

    Can't place an add for anything anymore without these guys tring it on.
  16. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A local out of business framer fell for it. They have you charge a strolen card and it takes a while for the credit card processor charge it back and deduct it from your bank account. Then they tell you the shipper that can deliver it to them does not accept credit cards so they have you charge another card and Western Union the money to them.
  17. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    95 more to go Jeff!

    (keep posting in happy birthday threads???:D)
  18. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Those are the easy ones. I need a bunch of threads that only require a yes or no answer.:D
  19. frmwks

    frmwks Grumbler in Training

    Request to ship frames to Liberia!!

    Below is a email coversation I have been having with some one calling herself "Carol". End result is I was never going to do the job, as and it tossed up red flags from the beginning. I was first contacted by her as a "deaf" person on the phone. I was just seeing how far it would go.

    enjoy -
    Alan Abeyta,CPF

    Thanks for having time to talk to me over the phone.I want to know if you can get me this
    Picture Frames to purchase:

    Picture Frames Type: Metal
    Size : 30 x 30
    Any of this Colors : Shiny Black,Gold and Silver.

    Please send me the pricing plus tax for the above material.What type of payment do u
    accept.Please include your address and phone number.
    Thank you and you have a great day

    I was good talking with you today, the price for your requested frame job is $140.57.

    We accept Visa, MC, Discover, AX, local Checks and of course Cash

    3119 E. Thomas Rd.
    Phoenix, AZ. 85016

    Thanks Again -
    Alan Abeyta,CPF

    Thank for emailing me back with this Information.I will need 30 pieces of them so i want you to go ahead and email me back with the total cost of it also the type of Payment you will Accept in this Order and the days you get them ready for pick up.I will pick it up at your store when is ready for Shipping.Hope to hear from you soon.
    Thank You

    On a quantity of 30pcs I can extend you a 30% discount (for a savings of $901.80) on all the materials. Your total would be $3240.55. Any of the payment types I mentioned earlier are acceptable for payment. I do require a 50% deposit prior to starting any job. I can have the job completed 7 days after the deposit is made. When finished I can send you an email to alert you that it is ready to be picked up.

    Alan Abeyta, CPF

    Hello Alan,

    Thanks for your time and patience and am sending you this E-mail in regards to the pick up and delivery. and that is i have a shipping company that will be picking up the packages from your location and have them shipped to the church location where the material will be used which is located in Hungary.

    And i will like you to contact the shipping company for the shipping charges. As soon as you hear from them do email me back with the total cost on the shipping and the order so i can provide my credit card information to run the full charges and get the order started.Below is the shipping company information.

    Freight Cargo Name :Omega Shipping Co
    Contact Person: Mackenzie Brown
    Contact Email address :eek:megashippingco@gmx.com

    And the information that the shipping company will request in order to provide you with the shipping charges is

    1. The full pick up location Address
    2.The shipping address
    3.Type of packages shipping.

    Below is the shipping address where the packages are going to.

    International Baptist Church
    Torokvesz Utca 48/54,
    Budapest 1025 Hungary

    NB: And the shipping company also handle packaging and creating for products...

    And so i will like you to contact the shipping company as soon as you can and send me an email response back with the total cost.

    Best Regards,

    since you know the shipping company and contact person I would like for you to arrange for shipping yourself. they can pick up the frames but I will not be paying them for you.


    I am in the hospital taking care of my hubby now in the hospital so i want you to contact them so i can pay all together.Let me know

    I did make the contact and am waitng on a quote.

    I have been expecting your email.Let me know.

    I want you to understand that I am not comfortable with the way this transaction is happening. I would like you to sign the attached document and provide me with a clear copy front and back of your drivers liscense and credit card that I can send to the credit card processor prior to starting this job.

    30 - 30x30 frames - $3240.55
    7-10 days shipping - $2959.62
    total - $6200.17

    Alan Abeyta,CPF

    Hello Alan
    Thank you once again for your good customer service.I am deaf and due to my hearing predicament,i can not go to Moneygram.Moreover,am in the hospital taking care of my hubby now.Email me with the total cost plus shipping so i can provide you with my credit card to charge and send the money at the nearest money gram location to the shipping co.When the money is cleared,they will contact you and pick up the materials when ready.If there will be any additional charge for doing that,please do not hesitate and let me know.Hope to hear from you soon so i can provide you with the necessary information.
    Best Regards,

    I understand your situation and I feel for you, but you are the one asking of my services. Since you mentiond MoneyGram and you have access to the internet, please to to MoneyGram.com fill out the money transfer order from your credit card to me and have them call me when the funds are available. At that time, and that time only will I procede with the order. If that is not accepable to you then I'm sorry, there is nothing more to discuss.


    3119 E. Thomas Rd.
    Phoenix, Arizona, 85016
  20. stevens

    stevens CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Funny, they always try new things. Too bad someone will fall for it.
  21. jim_p

    jim_p SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    In their email did they mention the thing you were selling by name, or did they simply refer to "the item"? One tip-off for me besides all the other obvious markers was the fact that the message was generic enough so that it could be a form letter that could be spammed out to every single ad on the list...
  22. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    I get at least one of these requests a week these days on the shop e-mail address. They are so transparent they are laughable, but I know that some people do get caught so keeping this as a sticky is probably a good idea.
  23. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    After seeing one of these threads on here DAILY I don't think this needed to be a sticky. I think we need a DUH label!!!

    If framers are so single minded that they haven't opened one of the hundreds of threads addressing these scams then they deserve to be scammed.

    When I see the"I wonder if it is real?" threads now I get annoyed that someone else is so gullable that they think "GEE this might be real?"

    Last week someone else thought it could be real because the scammer said God in the email.

    WAKE UP!!!! and use some common sense.


  24. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Thanks Bob....I wanted about to say something similar but much less restrained....:p

    You wanna bet there is another thread .....any minute now???
  25. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Thanks for making this a sticky. Now can we please lock it?
  26. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    Maybe you should tell us how you REALLY feel.... :)
  27. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    ...and when the email contains the incredible sentence "Frame Color: Gold, silver or black"....

    When was the last time a customer barged in and said: "I need a bunch of frames, any color will do...!!"??? :p
  28. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ouch Bob, that hurt! I can see your point about the repeated threads about this email, but what about the new grumblers that just opened their emails. They haven't seen the repeated threads like we have.

    Hopefully they know better than to fall for these things, but making this a sticky would hopefully help them out. In this economy if I got an email that promised lots of money for little work I might be intrigued. But, umm, nope. I get too many phone calls from fake yellow page companies and from "web enhancers" that just want my money that these emails don't fool me.

    Now i have to leave for a while. I have to forward these great emails I got to 100 of my closest freinds or "something bad will befall me"... :)

    Oh and BTw the email exchange posted above. that new grumbler had fallen for the scam. I think if she had googled "shinny gold frame" she would have gotten a grumbler thread in the list!
  29. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Bob, the bulk of these emails are fake. I would say all, but I did know a man, I used to do computer maintenance for him, that answered those "meet beautiful russian women" emails. They were basically scams aimed at liberating lonely old men from their wallets. But he actually met a young woman, flew her over 5 or 6 times and she ended up emigrating here. I think he still talks with her, and she was young and very cute :) And he was liberated from quite a healthy bit of his money...
  30. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    OK, OK, I will lay off any newbie post "is this a scam" thread, but if I see any "Do you have LaMarche ###" all bets are off.

  31. freakquency

    freakquency SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Has "Decor" done an article about this scam yet? Might be a good topic to cover.
  32. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have one of them on the hook today.

    We've exchanged three emails so far, and he has increased the quantity from 30 to 60. I want to see how far we get before I tell him we accept only cash or certified checks on local banks.:smileyshot22:
  33. dpetti

    dpetti PFG, Picture Framing God

    One of our trade magazines' "Editor's Notebook" column this month is about the web scams being tried in the printing industry. Same M.O., just a different product.
  34. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Yay! Just got my first request, for 200 frames, 8x10, wood or metal, bronze or white.....
    I quoted $40,000 (have to think about my retirement), cash only....:icon11:
  35. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

  36. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    hahaha, didn't think of that!!!!! Will keep in mind for next time! :thumbsup:
  37. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If they accept your price this time you will know you are undercharging.:beer:
  38. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    nyah, I did want to give my best price, of course.
  39. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ylva, was his name Bob Hays? I got the exact request yesterday.
  40. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Bingo!!!! Yes, that was his name!

    aha, so you are the competition.... and you now know my best price.... :p
  41. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ylva, I undercut you. Just waiting for that cc number so I can place my order Monday.

    Just so you know that I am a nice, fair person, I will let you have the next one. I believe in sharing the wealth. :eek:
  42. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Life ain't fair..... what about my retirement huh???? ;)
  43. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Now they have gone too far...Using "Bullit" Bob Hayes' name for their shenanigans. He's been on the other side of the grass for a few years now and I'm relatively certain that his needs for framing are curtailed.
    Be careful there...this could be a scam!
  44. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    nah, you're just saying that; you are just jealous!!!!
  45. Pyork

    Pyork Grumbler in Training

    Yes, we were contacted. We called our local FBI and the card numbers were good but stolen. Don't do it!
  46. boiseframer

    boiseframer Grumbler

    Stay away like the grumblers say

    I had the exact same scenario happen to me last year. While me initial response was, of course, skepticism the numbers adding up in my head outweighed my apprehension and I followed through to the next step.

    Evidently there was a specific number or "shipping company" that I was directed to call and get a quote for transporting the frames from my location to theirs - all the while being reassured that the costs will all be covered by credit cards - 3 of them to be exact. I still have the numbers on file.

    The point is to stay away from anything that sounds too good to be true. By the way, why in the heck would a church need to spend its money on framed artwork? You would think that food and money for the people might take priority. . . I don't know.
  47. DVieau2

    DVieau2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    Are industries suppliers aware of this scam? I wonder if they happily take an "out of the ordinary" chop order for 50 metal frames from a rookie framer without asking any questions?

  48. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    This scam has been around for soooo long and reported on this site daily (with much surprise to the one reporting it) to the point of it being funny that quite a few of my vendors sent out warnings at least a year or more ago.

  49. dpetti

    dpetti PFG, Picture Framing God

    I guess it's just too hard to resist that request for so many shinny frames! ;)
  50. InstallerNow

    InstallerNow Grumbler

    No way is right. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. In this case, it definitely is. Why contact you (no offense), all the way over here for a somewhat small order?
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