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Close to the edge.

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by mfamot, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. mfamot

    mfamot Grumbler in Training

    I have a framing job of a 78 year old map. Not only has it been rolled VERY tight but the writing is very close the the edges. The customer wants the handwritten writing that goes right to the edge and if the edges kept in (edges are optional). I had the thought of using clear achival corners (like the old fashion corners for scrapbooking photos). But you can see them. I dont want to drymount because of the age, non reverseable, and the wrinkles and buckles.

    Do you guys have any other options? Thanks.
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    MATTHEW HALE CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    seems like a good candidate for encapsulation. I've done a few old documents this way - encapsulate in mylar with a few inches of extra mylar extending beyond the edge of the art work that can be tucked under a top mat. cut the window in the top mat a little bit larger than the artwork so the edges are exposed. If your art is 8x10, cut your mylar to 10x12 and cut your window 8.5x10.5. make sense?
    prospero likes this.
  3. CB Art & Framing

    CB Art & Framing SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Here are some options, but each has a a "risk".
    -Do some hinges along the edges, all 4 sides, onto backing board, pulling outward, very lightly on each. Cross-cross as in stretching.
    -Cut matt non linear, covering parts of edges where there is no writing.
    -Lay a piece of plexi or mylar sheet directly over map and place matts above that.
  4. mfamot

    mfamot Grumbler in Training

    Question about encapsulation... i assume that the plexinis against the map.
    Wouldn't they go against the rules having something against the work?ie: buckling with humidity
    or is there a to leave an air space.

    What does non linear mean?

    MATTHEW HALE CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    when encapsulating an old document in mylar, you are using very thin sheets (paper thin) that will flex with the art, not rigid sheets of plex. typically, the static charge carried by the mylar is enough to hold the document in place. Alternatively, you could hinge the art to your backer and use acrylic glazing to hold it flat. this would be referred to as a Direct Contact Overlay. While contact between the art and glazing is typically to be avoided, it is generally considered acceptable to use acrylic (not glass) this way.
  6. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Mylar encapsulation is the elegant solution in many ways. The one caveat is that Mylar
    is very shiny. Hinging is a tad risky on old documents as the paper may have degraded
    with age and hinges can detach easily taking a layer of paper with them.

    ** I think I heard of matt Mylar once. Never seen any, but if it does exist it would be very handy. :rolleyes:
  7. skye

    skye MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    It does exist. Our store carries it, but it makes non glare glass look downright transparent.
    shayla likes this.
  8. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Platform mount. You can get to about 1/16" from the edge without doing any attachments what-so-ever. Your biggest problem will be with doing the straitening. If it has been rolled tight for 78 years it is going to be really tough to straighten it. I would try a light mist of distilled water on the back side and set it in the the vacuum press cold. Adjust the heat for 180 degrees and run the map under vacuum until it reaches the 180 degrees mark. Check it a couple while it is heating to 180. By misting the backside you are putting a little moisture back into the map and hopefully that will help release the fibers of the paper enough to straighten it. Misting means just a very light mist - DO NOT DRENCH THE PAPER WITH WATER!!
  9. tedh

    tedh PFG, Picture Framing God

    I just finished an 1830 land deed. Wrinkled, with writing right up to the edge. I used corners. They don't stand out under the art glass, and when I've used Mylar to encapsulate, the waviness is distracting.
  10. mfamot

    mfamot Grumbler in Training

    I think I might use corners first. It is pretty light and flimsy. Lots of good info. I won't doing it until next week, so any other info is appreciated.
  11. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    If anyone has a video of encapsulation being done, I'd love to see it. For some reason I struggle to imagine how it is done, every time I read about it.
  12. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Hopefully, someone will have one to share, but if you don't already have Jim Miller's books, I recommend getting them. His 'Mounting Objects With Clear Film' and 'The Complete Guide to Shadowboxes and Framing Objects' have saved our bacon several times. Great resources.
    Jim Miller, cjmst3k and JWB9999999 like this.
  13. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I somehow have my doubts that corners will work well if it is flimsy.

    I would float mount it. Parameter hinge it.
  14. JWB9999999

    JWB9999999 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Chris, think of it like this:

    Stick a 5x5 piece of paper in a 7x7 ziplock bag, with a 10x10 a mat that has a 6x6 hole in it. The paper is protected all the way around from any adhesives, since it's in the bag. The bag itself is mounted to the mat or backer board. You see some of the plastic around the edges since the hole in the mat is larger than the document itself. That's the basic idea.

    Of course, we aren't using ziplock bags. We are using mylar or melenex to make the "bags", though sometimes we only need a sheet and not an actual 2-sided bag. And of course you can make the hole in the mat to whatever size you wish, to bring it in closer to the document.
    cjmst3k, shayla, tedh and 1 other person like this.
  15. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Use the advanced search function on encapsulation by author Jim Miller, there's a lot of bum info on it on this thread.

    If it can be made flat then just float mount it and if you can spare just a fraction of mat overlap then as JoeB said, platform mount.
  16. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I do it like this:

    Cut your two sheets of Mylar.

    Run double-stick tape (NOT ATG) along the top edge and join the two sheets together.
    At the same time run ds along the other three sides but leave the release paper on.

    Slip the item in between, but don't jam it in right up to the tape. Maybe min 1/4" away. The static in the
    Mylar will hold it in place nicely. Get a book that is more-or-less the same size as the item and place it on top.
    This will expel the air and hold it flat while you lift the sides and peel the remaining strips of ds tape and
    burnish down. Job done.
  17. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    ...and at the start, make sure the curvy-sides of the mylar are curving toward one another, rather than away.
  18. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Properly done, clear polyester film encapsulation supports a sheet of paper in three ways:

    1. STATIC CHARGE - The static charge of the plastic film tends to attract the paper on both sides.

    2. MECHANICAL PRESSURE - All clear film has curvature; placing the two sheets' convex sides together creates a slight pressure in the center. If the convex sides are not facing together, then the reflections would be amplified and the mount could be loose.

    3. PINCHING ACTION - Placing the double-sided tape within 1/8" (no farther away from the item's edges than 1/4") tends to pinch its edges between the bonded sheets of film. Use high-quality, thin-ribbon polyester, double-sided tape with acrylic adhesive (Never ATG).
  19. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    What's the size? Got a photo?

    If this map has been folded and still has creases, a Clear film Overlay or Clear Film Encapsulation mount would tend to flatten the creases, but the film would not lay flat, and the distorted surface would amplify reflections on the glossy plastic covering.

    This may be a good candidate for Acrylic DCO framing, which would enable you to flatten the map against the inside surface of the acrylic glazing and show all edges. No adhesive would touch the map. You can get instructions, hints, and suggestions in several Grumble threads. Search the archives for "acrylic DCO".
  20. Grey Owl

    Grey Owl SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The first time I tried this I took the release paper off on all four sides, and then tried to place the 'art' inside as I sneezed. Well the 'art' stuck to the tape. Make sure you leave the top release paper on, until everything is placed. I was okay as it was my 'art' that had a value of around $0.10.
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