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Closed Sunday and Monday?

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by Rick, Apr 12, 2001.

  1. Rick

    Rick Guest

    Does anyone close on Monday and Sunday and stay open on Saturday? With no employees, its hard to get away from the shop to go to the bank or to run any arrends at all. Is it better to be closed on every Monday or to have (Back in 15 minutes) sign on the door?
    I'm totally against being open Sunday but I'd rather be open on Saturday and closed on Monday. It just seems more productive.
    Your thoughts would help, thanks
    Rick S.A.T.X.
    American Picture Frame Academy 1-888-840-9605

    The American Picture Framing Academy Learn Picture Framing Now
  2. framer

    framer Guest

    For the one man operation a Sun-Mon closed is great. I still consider Monday a work day. Errands, organize the work orders,order stock, start the framing for the week. If someone knocks and I'm there, I'll let them in and take their order if I have time. I've been known to play hooky from time to time and take two days off.

  3. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Have had Sun-Mon off for about 20 years, though I could count the number of times I wasn't at work on Monday on my digits. Saturday is a short day, 10-2. I found out that staying any later was a waste of time and annoyed the spouse.
    My employee works a standard week, so even if I sneak in a round of golf on some other day, I'm covered.
  4. Janet L

    Janet L SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    We're open Tues-Fri and Sat. by appt.
    I stay late almost every day for the customers that need later hours. Many Saturdays, I'm booked solid with appts. set about 45 min. apart. Then I may also have several weeks without a Saturday appt. I normally work on either Sunday or Monday (sometimes both) to have time to get orders together, bookkeeping done and to actually frame those jobs that are simplified without constant interruptions. If, I'm at the shop on Mondays trying to frame, my customers will occasionally knock on the door and I also will let anyone in that is there for a pickup or if they are holding an item in need of a frame.
    When you live in a smaller town, people understand that a framer needs time to frame. They also know how active we are in the community's different civic organizations and seem to appreciate the fact that once or twice a month they may find a note on the door such as Closed for Chamber of Commerce Meeting etc.


    How cheap do you want it to look?
  5. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A few months ago, Vivian Kistler had a pretty good column on retailing hours in Decor. To sum it up, if you are the retail game, you need to think like a retailer. Accessible hours are a part of it.
  6. rosetl

    rosetl CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    We're open 6 Days. Would not consider being closed on Saturday -- sometimes it can be 1/2 my sales for the week and is usually my busiest sales day. Busiest time is 10:00 til about 2 or 3 --- but many a time I've been here until 7 as they just kept coming in! For me it's worth the full open day. If it gets quiet I just enjoy some quiet time--"goofing off"--something I rarely do the rest of the week--or prepare for Monday work.

    I've read that it is a bad habit to change hours frequently--and agree. Make a schedule and stick to it -- including "shop" time without the doors open---and still have the doors open as much as you feel you can to service your area and clientelle needs.

    A friend of mine told me that some time ago in the UK in a small town all the restaurants & pubs were closed from noon to 1:00 so the employees could eat lunch......yes, I said restaurants. I guess the business people had to take lunch from 1 to 2!! I'd say those restaurants weren't very accessable!


    [This message has been edited by rosetl (edited April 12, 2001).]
  7. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    "I work to live; I don't live to work"

    When we opened 1 1/2 years ago, we committed to being closed Sundays and Mondays: never looked back, .. never regreted it. My clientel has come to expect it, and that's the name of that game. Sure, I 'm there on Mondays anyway, .. ordering, getting those loose ends together ... and the stray customer rattling the door has come in handy, too. Yeah, yeah,.... tell me that if they're at the door, I should be open ... but I need two day weekends ... (I'm a whole lot easier to live with that way ... just ask my partner.. [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by FramingFool (edited April 12, 2001).]
  8. Janet L

    Janet L SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yeah, Bob, I read that column too. Think it was in Picture Framing Magazine. Our hours work for me and thus far, they appear to work for our customers as we have no shortage of work. Remember that in a small town, everybody knows everybody. People can call me at home if they need to stop in at an hour when I'm not typically open. I'm happy to go in for them and work around their hours. If their business isn't open when I need it, I'm a patient person too or if it's an emergency, they'll open up for me.

    We still have a doctor that will make house calls. No one here seems to be rushing to shop during mall hours nor do we want our life to be like larger cities where customers don't really know the people they are doing business with. We like Clayton just like it is. Many businesses here are closed on Wednesday each week. The shopping night in our town is Thursday. Go figure!

    How cheap do you want it to look?
  9. Jana

    Jana SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Mondays are usually a busy retail day for us. We are closed Sundays. Each of us gets another day off during the week, too.
  10. Le

    Le CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I am closed on Sunday and Monday. Rose and I work together and we take off together. If Vivian buys my shop she can set any hours she wants. In the meantime I'll run my business the way I see fit.
  11. Audrey Levins

    Audrey Levins MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Framing is not a life-or-death service; as long as you are open on Saturdays, when a lot of people run their errands, I really don't see a problem with Sun. & Mon. closing. My hair salon is closed on Sunday and Monday, and I really don't care; I schedule my appointments on another day of the week. A lot of smaller businesses close on those two days; people expect it. Country clubs are closed on Mondays as well; if you want to play a round of golf, you have to play municipal or not at all. I imagine all the members get over that, too. LOL

    I plan on closing the shop, when I have it, on those two days....I am a sight to behold without a little down time. [​IMG]

    I don't care what color your sofa is.
  12. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Like most things on the Grumble, people have very strong opinions-even hours. But, I thought the first thread was asking opinions and the last indicated the decision was made. So much for an open mind and open discussion. But can't your stores operate a wider range of hours, and still give all your employees hours 40hrs a week? Anything that allows more flexibility and accessibility for your customers can't be bad, can it?
  13. ArtLady

    ArtLady SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    This is an interesting thread. It sounds to me as if it is market specific.

    Maybe we should decide what our market is before we determine our hours.

    I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
  14. gemsmom

    gemsmom SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    When I was a one-woman shop, I was still open six days a week. As soon as I could afford help, I hired a part-timer, and started working five-day weeks. I would never think of closing on Monday as I write some pretty good business on Monday. I am open 10-5 on Saturday. I do not open early for people, nor do I stay late. Start being too flexible with your hours and people will take advantage of you.
  15. accent

    accent True Grumbler

    Well,I guess I must be in the minority.
    I agree With Bob and Vivian. With all the competition out there ( there are three other shops within 3 blocks of me). We are open 7 days a week. Our hours are short on Sunday noon till 5 p.m. That is why we have employees to cover the 54 hours that we are open. If you look at any large business,they are open for many more hours than this.
    Our customers live very busy lives and appreciate our being there to accomodate them. I personally usually work every other saturday and 1 sunday a month.As for being closed on mondays, that is usually our second busiest day. I can't think of any other retail business that closes on a monday.This is not a criticism, I'm just trying to figure out why.
  16. Kit aka emrr

    Kit aka emrr Guest

    Perhaps Mondays are busy because people are still trying to finish up all the errands they didn't get through on the weekend.

    No matter what day of the week it is, my busiest time of day is 5 to 7 pm. If you are planning what hours to be open, think about being available to customers who will be stopping in on their way home from work.

    Think about your own schedule and how hard it is to get to the vet, the bank, the garage, and all the other businesses that are only open during the hours you're at work.

    Ooops - you've indavertently stumbled across one of my favorite soap boxes here. But then, I think libraries should be open 24 hours. Kit

    Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
  17. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A point of clarification, please. I recommended Vivian's article,not that I agreed with her, but that she said you needed to start thinking like a retailer. I could care less what hours anybody is open. Personally, I wish all my competitors were closed 2 days a week. You need to set your hours to compliment your business plan and your balance that with your customers needs.But, my point, which is often lost, is if you limit the hours you are available to a customer, your customer may go someplace that is more convenient. It's a balancing act.

    But before anybody starts off on the old, tired My business doesn't run me, I run my business mantra, ask yourself when was the last time you took two weeks off(together)or how many 4 day weekends do you take to recharge the batteries. Most of the most adamant posts come from single or husband/wife operators with no employees or maybe one part-time high school type.

    My suggestion? Can we all help you develop a business plan that affords enough business to develop a staff to allow all grumblers the luxury of not having to work 6 days or 7 a week? Can we or PPFA make running a business for fun and profit a reality, instead of a pipe dream? Is it not a possibility to help each other become better at this game where we can open a shop with enough staff to allow everyone the same time off that you now have to close your store to do? I think that's the more advisable thread.
  18. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    The hours that we open here should have no bearing whatsoever on the hours of operation elsewhere. When deciding your hours it should be based on the hours of operation in your own area and market. After reading the afore mentioned article, I am dissapointed to see it refered to almost as "recommended hours" by many.
  19. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Lance-I'm sorry that my post was dissappointing. But maybe you should re-read it and tell us just exactly which hours I was recommending. You state your hours "should have no bearing whatsoever on the hours of operation elsewhere" but should"be based on the hours of operation in your own area and market". Well, which is it?Is it elsewhere or is it your area. Is elsewhere down the street, another continent?

    I still contend your hours are your own business and should follow your business plan. My point was that many of the posts indicated that the only time off they took was when the store was closed. A more successful business plan might allow a little more freedom and flexibility. I don't know why the point keeps getting lost.

    [This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited April 17, 2001).]
  20. Audrey Levins

    Audrey Levins MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I think Bob's last comment has a point; eventually we would all like to be busy enough to employ OTHER people to "watch the store" while WE take time off. LOL

    However, I don't think that "thinking like a retailer" necessarily means being open seven or even six days a week. I went "browsing" for furniture last week--my fiance and I are moving, and we'd like some new furniture--and the place we went to first is a place called Fischer's, that has been open since the thirties. We'd been there before, and enjoyed the personal service we received, so we went back.

    Of course, they had a sign that said, "Always Closed On Wednesdays," and it happened to be a Wednesday. LOL

    So we made plans to go another day; it wasn't a big deal, and we did not immediately decamp to another furniture store to give someone else our business. As I said before, my hair salon closes on Sundays and Mondays, and I have yet to schedule an appointment elsewhere. IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL.

    So while I admire those who stay open seven days a week, I just don't think that kind of constant schedule would work for me....nor do I think, necessarily, that it would result in a terrible loss of business. I would perhaps think of opening with "reduced hours" on Sunday or Monday--say noon to six, or something--but I remain firm in my intention to close at least once a week. LOL I also like the idea of scheduling "appointments" with clients who need me on closed days, rather than being open to the public.

    So anyway, that's my two cents. [​IMG]

    I don't care what color your sofa is.
  21. ArtLady

    ArtLady SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Realistically I do not think we can base a decision like store hours based on what works for us personally. Perhaps a customer centered approach based on what the majority of retail customers would find most convenient. Let's see the modern couple is both employed. Today's woman at home run errands on weekends and evenings. Perhaps when a big purchase needs to be made they take off a day together. I wonder typically what day that might be. How about you folks can anyone else add some incite on what to consider for today's consumer who custom frames?

    I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
  22. Janet L

    Janet L SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Bob, you are exactly right in your point. I do sometimes feel that I might be missing a customer or two with the hours we are open, but for the immediate future, no more employees will be added until our population grows some more.

    I may take you up on your generous offer of helping with a business plan in order to employ more help and have time off while our shop is open (down the road). Right now, I'm enjoying the business I'm building and so far have made good decisions for us. BUT, every bit of advice I've taken of yours has been right on target. I'm always appreciative of your replies and problem solving.


    How cheap do you want it to look?
  23. CharlesL

    CharlesL PFG, Picture Framing God

    Seems like I follow Janet. It's not planned that way. AL, in answer to your question about what days people take off, I used to try and schedule important meetings/purchases, etc on Fridays or Mondays. It was always important to me to try and scratch out a 3-day weekend when I could. If I had to, I would do whatever it was on another day. But, as a rule, Friday or Monday was the day for me. Friday was first choice.

    I'm not totally worthless. I can always be used as a bad example... Woodchuck
  24. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    Bob-The word "elsewhere" is very broad I agree, perhaps that is why I chose it, how can I possibly fully understand the market of a particular area? Often, here "elsewhere" is the difference in malls and strip.
    Please also note the careful use of the word "almost", and take note that I never did mention your name, nor post. Simply because I wasn't refering to it.
  25. Rick

    Rick Guest

    My original question was meant to get ideas on how everyone sees stores hours. I didn't mean to draw a line in the sand. I was just wondering how everyone either is or had curtailed thier hours when they first opened.
    It's a no brainer that we should be open to accomidate the consumer and not ourselves, but with only so many hours in the day and one person/ maybe two people running a shop, how can we make time to catch up, run errands, and keep sane?
    From what I gather from all of you is that Sunday is a given as closed and Monday is a gamble between your sanity and another day of sales.
    As it stands right now. I plan to post hours of Tuesday throught Friday 9:00 to 7:00 and 10:00 to 5:00 on Saturday. Closed Sunday and Monday.
    Maybe when I can afford some help, I may add Monday to the roster, but until then I would rather stay closed and have that extra day to stay sharp and ahead.
    I used to work for a frame shop (35 hours a week) during the day and bartend ( 30 hours a week) at night and made more mistakes in both than I would like to addmit.
    Making a drink wrong was not that big a deal, but cutting your finger off is not very good. Most mistakes are made when you are angry, frustrated, behind and or tired.
    I don't think Monday is going to be worth the gamble as far as sanity is concerned.

    I really appreciate your comments, they helped alot, and hope everyone can find that perfect line between prosperity and insanity.
    Thanks everyone and talk at you later.

    If you don't take care of your tools, they won't take care of you.
  26. Jean McLean

    Jean McLean CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I'm open M-F 10-5 and Sat 10-4. What surprises me is how many of you won't hire help...can't afford it? How can you stand the stress of depending on yourself totally every single day your open? Ever get sick? Take vacations? How can you stand the personal abuse all because you can't afford it? The stress will get you in the end and you will be no better off. Heck, get help one day a week so you can do what you need to do. What ever happened to employee wages being tax deductable? Pay someone minimum wage just to come sit the place for a day. You'll discover the $50 it will cost you worth every penney. Most of that can be deducted from your taxes and what isn't can be covered by giving up that extra glass of wine in the evening or quit smoking. Think about it...get help one day a week. It really isn't that expensive to give yourself a little break. Sorry. I'm not preaching, I just hate to see good people afraid to baby themselves a little. Life is too short. Yes, I have help and I personally work all the time but can leave when I need to. Jean
  27. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Jean-Thank you. That is pretty much my point. My basic idea was to encourage people to look beyond the hours they would like to work, and look at the hours necessary to run a successful operation. You don't have to do it all. An important tool of management is to learn to delegate. But, if the problem is you don't have the business flow to afford any help, possibly the problem is with your business plan. Sometimes the culprit isn't the one you are looking at. Maybe if a location doesn't provide the streams of clients, look for a better location. Sometimes it might be selection, sometimes it might price. Who knows? But if you are not doing enough business to afford a staff, and this is important, you want to do more business, re-examine your plan. Now, if you are happy at your level and have no intention of growing, fine-so be it. But don't hide behind the inability to grow as a I don't want to grow.It's your business and do as you wish. But, sometimes we expound on business principles as sacred. They aren't.But don't confuse the issues because you don't want anybody telling you(and I'm saying this generically, no one in particular)what to do.

    As an aside to Rick and Audrey: May I help you by looking at your business plan to maybe see if you can't develop a plan that would generate enough sales to require a staff? There really are some easy answers.
  28. RevBev

    RevBev True Grumbler

    Some of you will see yourselves as "merchants", others as "craftspersons." The difference will be in what your clients see themselves as buying, or in what you are selling. The "stuff", or the "know-how". If you are selling your knowledge, judgement, skill, etc. then you will need to be there and your clients will work with you. In my experience, the best client is a middle-aged woman who is out spending on a weekday. Premium custom framing does not seem to be something that clock-punching consumers are budgeting for. Either her husband is a well-paid professional (and you won't see her on Saturday 'cause she's busy with him and/or the kids) or she's a well-paid professional or boss-lady herself who's sneaking in a little work-day shopping.
    I do feel that if you are going to bother with Saturday you should go the distance and not close before 6:00. If I had my own shop I would post a Monday closing and stay open evenings 'til 7:00
  29. Framing Goddess

    Framing Goddess SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Just an observation...
    We just extended our Saturday hours in January from 11am-3pm to 10am-6pm and we were amazed to see that our busiest times are (as before) 12-2pm AND 4-6pm.
    So I would agree with RevBev-- if you are in an area that supports Sat. hours, don't cut it too short!
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