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CM Glass

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Mecianne, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    "Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project."



    What is this?? Like Perfect Vue? If it's the best available, then it's better than Museum? It has the highest UV protection you can get?


    http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayArticle?articleNum=ae0476
     
    Sponsor Wanted
  2. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    It's Museum. I went down there and checked.
    They've done away with Perfect Vue, although it's available (and priced as) conservation reflect control until the department has exhausted it's supply, they can't order anymore.


    A 16x20 Masterpiece (Museum)is $54.44

    16x20 Conservation Clear is $18.00

    16 x 20 Conservation Reflect Control is $26.66

    They're now carrying acrylic (not sure which one)...16x20 is $25.51

    Those are their "regular" prices.
     
  3. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Thanks, Val.

    So, TruVue sells "Masterpiece" glass "exclusively" to Michael's and the rest of us get plain ole Museum. Huh...ain't that funny.
     
  4. Bogframe

    Bogframe SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    They must be getting one heck of a price break! We have to price a 16 X 20 piece of TV Museum glass at $126.00 to make it profitable.
     
  5. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God


    WOOF!.... oh, right........ Brooklyn... sorry, I forgot.

    $48.20 TVM
     
  6. stshof

    stshof SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    OK, Paul, is this an example of what you're talking about? Rename Museum Glass and then lead the public to believe it's an "exclusive" product not available
    at the independent frame shop because of the name? Never mind that it's the same glass! And of course, my instant gut reaction is to get angry at TruVue...

    :soapbox:
     
  7. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    My Lifesaver default price on TVM is $51 and some change.
     
  8. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    TVM $ 63.28

    TVCC $ 16.28

    I just raised my TVM price though. Have to revisit my TVCC.

    :popc:

    Dave Makielski
     
  9. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    And Bainbridge has some "exclusive" colors matbd that we can't get, and Nielsen has "exclusive" profiles (1" Vivids, for instance) that we can't have either.
     
  10. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Interesting observation and useful research, Val, but did the Michaels’ clerk state categorically that the “Conservation Masterpiece” is, indeed, the same “Museum” that the rest of us poor, out-of-the-loop, independents are stuck with?

    We all know that Michaels would never be guilty of deceptive advertising, so this leaves us with two possible conclusions:

    1) That Tru-Vue is simply repackaging it’s “Museum” for sales exclusively to Michaels. In this instance, if we examine their statement closely, we would be hard pressed to find an out and out fib here.

    2) That Tru-Vue has come out with a new product that has >96.00001% transmission, <0.99999% reflectivity, and UV protection exceeding 99.0001%. In this instance, I think we’d have a legitimate gripe with Tru-Vue.
     
  11. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Yeah, the gripe would have to be with TruVue not Michael's if it is indeed museum renamed. There is nothing wrong with Michael's having exclusive mouldings and matboards. I know the matboards in particular came about when Michael's dropped Crescent many moons ago. They felt there were some gaps and Bainbridge filled that gap with what Michael's wanted. Nothing wrong with that.

    Guess Val will have to do some more investigating. I'd hurry too before Michael's catches wind of this thread and makes everybody dummy up......
     
  12. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I sure hope my customers don't go running to Michael's with their masterpieces now.

    :icon9:

    Dave Makielski
     
  13. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Early this week a customer showed me a quote from Michaels that listed "Masterpiece Glass". I told her I didn't know what that is, but that our Muesum Glass is the best glazing available. She said, "Yeah. The lady at Michaels said that's what it is." I then proceeded to verify that it was not Perfect Vue, which used to be Michael's standard.

    Curious about this new thing, I called Tru Vue. Here's the story:

    Michael's has wanted to sell Museum Glass all along, but Tru Vue has refused to sell it to them, reserving that product for independent framers.

    Michael's "Masterpiece" glass is similar to Museum Glass, except that the product specifications are different. Loosely translated, it means the quality tolerances are more liberal, and that could be a significant difference.

    Museum Glass is Tru Vue's most sophisticated glass product and its manufacturing process is very complex. The scrap rate probably is much higher than that of other glazing products, and I'm sure the quality engineers in the Faribault plant battle that demon daily.

    With the new Michaels deal, Museum Glass that comes off the line with some flaws, which would have previously condemned it to the dumpster, is packaged for Michaels. I'm sure Masterpiece Glass is still an excellent product, by glass industry standards, but some of it is not as good as what is packaged as Museum Glass.

    So, this arrangement is beginning to make sense. Michael's has access to a pretty good optically coated, anti-reflection glass product, Tru Vue has an outlet for its not-too-bad scrap from production, and maybe the Faribault engineers can breathe a little easier. And we independent framers still have Museum Glass to ourselves.
     
  14. mik

    mik SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project.".....

    Just talked to Tru Vue.Was told " Masterpiece is only available at Michaels, as Michaels cannot buy Museum. Only independents can get Museum. Masterpiece is made to "lesser or not as tight" specifications as is Museum. Museum will still be the "gold standard" for conservation glass." "

    I'm suppose to get more info emailed to me regarding the specs. Will pass it along, if and when I get it. Suggest all to called Tru Vue and discuss Michaels ways of advertising the glass as it implies that the indies don't have anything like it and if they do, why are they charging the "arm and a leg" for it.
    :soapbox:
    [/FONT]
     
  15. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Circut City used to sell a Panasonic FAX/Phone that was a KX 1091P.

    It looked a whole lot like a KP 1061X at Staples
    or the KMX 1078 at Best Buy
    and the KPx 1081P at . . . .

    All of them were running ads about "if you can find a better price, we'll beat it by 10%"

    because of the "renaming" you can't compare it, and beat it.
     
  16. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Seems to me this is some of the deceptive advertising Paul Cascio is talking about. If Masterpiece is really just substandard Museum glass, then it can't possibly be the best -- or it would have been labeled Museum glass. Kinda like buying seconds at TJ Maxx instead of the perfectly-created garment elsewhere. Big difference, of course, is that TJ Maxx will discount the garment to account for the fact that it's a subpar item.
     
  17. Richard Darling

    Richard Darling SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    So then, if I am reading correctly, it is not the "best framing glass available." Although it may be comparable to the "best framing glass available," it's flaw rate or quality standards may make it the "second best framing glass available." :nuts: But I'm sure that wouldn't make a great promotional line.
     
  18. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer




    Talk about truth in advertising. Hmph.
     
  19. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    Actually, it is the best framing glass available...available to Michael's, that is.
     
  20. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    But they don't say that, do they?

    So, is this deception by ommision? Or just plain deception? False advertising??
     
  21. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Tru Vue is an excellent supplier to our industry. I'm sure they do not want to do anything that would hurt us.
     
  22. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Tru Vue is an excellent supplier to our industry. I'm sure they do not want to do anything that would hurt us.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Anyone wonder what they actually pay for these "seconds"?

    Dave Makielski
     
  24. Twin2

    Twin2 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    They have certainly omitted the key phrase of "available to Michael's", whether or not that was an oversight on their part, I'm betting my money that it wasn't. It certainly is deceptive and leaves customers with the false impression that they have purchased the absolute best glass available on the market. It seems to suggest that Tru Vue's Museum Glass is an inferior product, which in fact, it isn't as per Jim and Mik's discussions with Tru Vue.

    I'm curious to know what the Michael's designers are supposed to say to a customer if the customer comes out and asks specifically what the difference is between their Masterpiece glass and Museum Glass
     
  25. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    not the blame game ....

    I don't fault Tru Vue or Michael's really, for that matter. I was just wondering what it was all about. We are all out to make money same as anyone else. I just think staying informed and on top of what our competition is doing is a good way to stay in the game.

    Now if any customer asks, I'll have the answer.
     
  26. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Well, we already know the answer I bet!

    But on the other hand, we also know what to say about Michael's "Museum" Glass....
     
  27. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    "Me thinks he doth protest too much.." :D

    Jim, how can your double post be 16 minutes apart? :icon9:

    But you're right, they are an excellent supplier, just like LJ. How could any of us think any kind of negative thought of duplicity or that ilk?... :help:
     
  28. MnSue

    MnSue SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Interesting statement. At Joann's, my 2nd top selling glass was Musuem Glass - but only by a close 2nd. CC was 1st by a slim margin.

    So when did Tru Vue "reserve that for independent framers"? Before they got it into Joann's?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  29. Cretin75

    Cretin75 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    That's what I was wondering too. Museum glass is my top seller at my shop, followed by CC. I don't even pull out the sample for non glare :vomit: Is our Museum glass any different?

    I've been having some problems with the Museum glass we've been getting lately. Little black dots here and there. :icon45:
     
  30. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    These kind of exclusives make me mad. Lets see LJ has a line just for JoAnns that was done to help them lower prices. TV is selling off seconds to help them lower prices. N/B is giving them mouldings and boards.

    When was the last time any supplier helped you to lower your prices so you could compete with the BB.

    These mega suppliers will wake up one day when most of the indies are gone and the BB are still whipping them to lower prices and lower them some more. This sounds alot like what Wally World did to many American companies a few years ago. Remember Wal-Mart used to promote buy American, now they are the largest importer from China.

    First go the Independents, then go the suppliers that play the BB game.

    This cr*p make me want to get out of the frame game.
     
  31. JohnR

    JohnR MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Doesn't add up

    So if "scrap" is sold to Ms and a customer finds a flaw and complains. Ms haves to fix it. It would be interesting to see samples of the glass Ms uses. I bet you'd find it to be pretty good. A flaw in the optical coating would stick out like a sore thumb.

    Companies play this name game to get product into markets they otherwise could not.

    John
     
  32. pollyann

    pollyann CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I can't tell the difference

    This quote is from Apogee Enterprises , Inc. (tru-vue) about there process

    "Using a process exclusive to the Company, highly energized metals (or oxides) are deposited onto the glass in precisely controlled thicknesses"

    From what I was told the masterpiece glass is very much like museum glass with the exception as to how the coating is put on. I understood them to mean it is just a hair less than what is put on the museum glass. I wish I had the exact specs for you, but at the time I really didn't think it was an important factor to remember. I believe customers are more interested in the visual effects than the statics.(or maybe that's just me) I tell customers that it has an optical coating, I don't even mention museum glass, all they have to see is the samples and the display. If they like it they buy it.

    In case of emergencies (like running out of glass) Tru Vue Museum glass can be ordered from Larson Juhl. It was also my understanding that Perfect Vue glass is no longer available, as Tru Vue has stopped producing it.

    When I was in college I worked for one of the largest paper manufacturers, Fort Howard now called Georgia Pacific, when we ran upper grades of toilet tissue and then the generic brands all we switched was the labels. A friend of mine works for Jockey International and said the Target brand is there's and is the same thing. Make's you wonder if they would go through all the neccessary changes to make something , oh so slightly different, or just change the label?
     
  33. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    We have had more problems lately as well, and for a product that expensive there is more waste than there should be. Maybe we are getting some of that Masterpiece best quality available glass!

    Time to give Tru Vue--and LJ--a ring.
     
  34. apetty

    apetty CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Something doesn't add up

    If Tru-Vue is selling only the scrap to JoAnn's and Michaels...well, that's a LOT of scrap. Hmmmmmmm, if it smells like a fish...... Since JoAnn's uses LJ, they may buy the glass through them, thus relieving TV of that pesky 'we don't sell Museum to BB's' caveat.

    As of today I'm going to stop carrying Museum glass!!!! There, that'll show 'em!!!

    Well, it felt good to write, anyway. Just wish Michael's could not claim it as "exclusive" and "the best"...that really is a bunch of carp. Will TruVue put something on their website stating that Museum is the higher quality glass so that I can print it off and show it to my customer? Otherwise it just makes me sound silly ("no, really, my glass is better....um, but like a sliver of a coating!").
     
  35. MnSue

    MnSue SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I would find it difficult to believe that J's and M's get "separate, 2nds" glass. When at JoAnn's and I ordered glass, it come in the "same boxes" that I receive currently. Having been thru the LJ warehouse here, I don't remember seeing a separate "BB" glass section.

    At JoAnn's, I remember when Michael's started selling Perfect Vue and I had customers then saying it was "musuem glass". I called j's corporate to get the facts....and got the correct specs for both glazings. Our local M's (I won't speak for the whole chain) was stating "it's musuem glass" and it really confused customers then.

    sounds like same song, differnet verse...........
     
  36. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Here’s another possibility:

    If what others are saying about JoAnns being able to buy Museum while Michaels is not, perhaps that comes about from the “exclusivity” contract JoAnns has with TruVue.

    TruVue may simply be trying to skirt the contract that it has with JoAnns by re-labeling their glass to sell to Michaels.
     
  37. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I believe you misunderstood. Tru Vue said they have widened the flaw tolerance for Masterpiece Glass. That means M's would get some flawed glass that would not be packaged as Museum Glass. It also means a lot of Masterpiece Glass could be as good as Museum Glass. So, M's might put flawed glass in a customer's frame, or they have to cut around the flaws, increasing their own scrap rate.

    If you care to check, you may find that Tru Vue does not sell Museum Glass to JoAnne. Larson-Juhl does. I'm no lawyer, but if Tru Vue tried to tell LJ that they couldn't sell Museum Glass to JA, I think that would violate antitrust laws.

    You're joking, right? That would prevent you from selling one of the hottest products in framing. Wouldn't that be like throwing the baby out with the bath water?
     
  38. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    JoAnne has a contract with Larson-Juhl.

    If an "exclusivity" contract exists between Tru Vue and JoAnne, I would be surprised. I doubt one exists.
     
  39. dougj

    dougj SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ok a customer goes to M's and is told ONLY they have the very best glass available for $xx.
    Same customer ask the price of my very best glass $xxx.
    How can yours be more $$$ if M's only has the best.
    Prove it! Yea Right! Sounds like BS to me and you are only trying to make more $ off the customer
    .[​IMG]
    WHO WOULD YOU BELIEVE????????
    I think if this is really going on TV has put us and the customer in a VERY BAD
    position. I do not like being put in the position of loosing customers because they don't think I am being honest or trying to rip them off.
    It only takes a couple of customers to spread the word.
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    So, TV doesn't sell to JA, but sells to LJ that sells to JA......the end result is the same to me.

    Maybe we should buy the cheaper, low / hi flaw tolerance MG that TV sells to Ms and then we sell it as the "Best Quality Glass", and increa our profit margin!

    But I am sure TV will tell me they sell this only to Ms.....??
     
  41. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Every so often we get one of those "burr under the saddle" issues that drives us crazy-this, I guess, is the issue de jour

    Let's accept Jim's responses at face value (how could you take anything differently-I'm certain if you looked in the dictionary for honesty-it woul dsay "see Jim Miller"). And, let's add some good old "common sense" an dbusiness sense

    I'm a doughnut maker and my tolerance for my Jelly filled doughnut (a very expensive product in the doughnut world) is 99.5% perfect. And, I make the finest jelly filled doughnut in the world. What should I do with those products that just miss the cut for perfect? I can throw them away at a total loss or I can find a single source and sell that product "en masse" for a lower price realizing that 99% of that doughnut may, in fact, be perfectly good

    And, I find a source that all my "perfect" doughnut customers continually say is not up to their, or their customers, standards.

    And that source says correctly that these doughnuts are the finest jelly filled doughnuts and they trim or add a few more sprinkles or simply discard those doughnuts that are unacceptable by their clientele

    As an independent, should we wish that the Doughnut maker not offer that product to anyone? Or, should we demand that that we receive the same opportunity to carry those 99% perfect doughnuts?

    Or should we, as independents, look at this product and realize that jelly filled doughnuts only represent a very, very small percentage of my business an dthe probability that the current customer for jelly filled doughnuts that I service probably won't go to that other place on a bet

    Bottom line: Track your sales of Jelly filled doughnuts and see if this has any impact at all on your current sales trends. And, remember that if this doughnut mfgr were not able to recover some of those production costs associated with the tolerance levels you demand, the price of jelly filled doughnuts may certainly go up even higher

    And, if I remember correctly, the price of jelly filled doughnuts went down some not too long ago

    I'll bet that if we doughnut sellers were making money hand over fist, we probably couldn't care less what they did with their "not quite perfect" doughnuts.

    For me, I think we need to find a way to sell a cup of coffee for a dime more or something that the majority of ny customers want on ahigher demand frequency than a 3% solution
     
  42. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Call me a cynic if you want, but I think this is all smoke and mirrors.

    The jelly donuts are all the same.

    Do you honestly believe that if M places an order for 1000 dozen donuts and the quality control at the bakery has improved such that they had no sub par donuts baked yesterday that they won't ship out the primo stuff?

    I pay the going premium rate for the cru de la creme of donuts but occasionally get some of the thumb printed ones.

    :kaffeetrinker_2:

    Dave Makielski
     
  43. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Hi Dave-I'm not sure that you aren't right, but lets assume that the BB (big Bakery for this thread) buys all these "less than" doughnuts "as is" with no return privilege; accepts them that way, cuts around flaws, etc

    Whereas the indie doughnut shop inspects every doughnut very carefully and returns those not "perfect". What cost does that represent?

    All I'm suggesting is that, with scale, comes some opportunities

    I buy pretty well.

    If I buy a little more than Mary Jane, don't you think I ought to "negotiate" for a better consideration than Mary Jane? And, If I buy a whole lot better than Mary Jane.....?

    We have a wonderful "straight shooter" Business/Financial advisor that only takes Women clientele. We did a great VersaLaser sign for her recently that is her favorite expression when advising her clients to take a step up in their dealings. It is "It's time to put your big girl panties on"

    I think she might say the same thing to Mary Jane
     
  44. apetty

    apetty CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Oops, yep, I did misunderstand that. Thank you for the additional explanation.

    Still, I have not misunderstood the overall implications. I understand that this is business and that TV has made the decision to sell Museum glass to my BB competitors. If I were the CEO at TV having to give my stockholders ever-increaing sales and profit growth rates, I too would sell it to the BBs.

    What I would not do, however, is call the same product something else. Like Dave said, -- a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

    But, of course I will continue to buy and sell it. It IS, afterall, a beautiful product.
     
  45. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Bob ...I fully agree that if you buy donuts by the truckload that the economies of scale should kick in and the price offered would be far better than picking out that perfect donut under the glass to go with your three shot latte.

    However ...and I could be wrong ...I believe the scenario is more like this:

    The BB wants to make the small independent cafe owner feel that only the best donuts called "BB's Best" go under the glass at the cafe and you can't buy them at the outlet bakery for love or money. However the outlet bakery has a high demand for and is willing to place large orders for these same high quality donuts. The BB wants to satisfy both parties.

    The outlet bakery places huge orders for these donuts,. The BB gets around upsetting the corner cafe by using a different classy name and sells the same donuts to the outlet bakery at a huge discounted quantity price justified by the number of donuts ordered. The outlet store seizes a marketing opportunity by getting the BB to make their new name for the donut exclusive to them creating an illusion that you can't buy these same donuts anywhere else.

    The BB has satisfied both markets for their donuts and allowed both customers to maintain their exclusivity of offering a premium identical product under two different names.

    Who gets the overall advantage in this picture? The outlet bakery because they are able to both purchase the product and enjoy the economies of scale and have the resources to market this as an "exclusive" product more effectively than the little upscale corner cafes.

    The BB is not unhappy either because they made both their market segments feel "special" but the little corner cafes aren't sophisticated enough to see that they just got the wool pulled over their eyes ...or even if they did notice, they don't have the time or resources to do anything but worry about the guy at their counter wanting his triple shot latte and BB's Best Donut.

    JMHO.

    Dave Makielski
     
  46. stud d

    stud d SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    There are two ways to look at it. First that it is the real McCoy. If it is why are they selling it now when they did not in the past? Well they did not sell CC in the past, but they found a way to sell it. Now they are looking at a product that they beleive they can sell. So they go back and say hey TV hook me up. Tv saids it can not be marked to you as Mus, but call it what you like. They make a deal for a better price, like we all should be trying to do to our vendors. So that is number one.

    The second is, this is true, it is the real McCoy but seconds. So they tell TV let me take this off your hands at 50% off, not returns, just as is. TV looks at the bottom line, if we sell 70% of our glass we make x. But if we sell the seconds we make x+. So they already no they have waste, we all do, but we sell that extra slice of mat that Jane's did not use to BillyBob. Now this is what all the classes teach us, use as much as we can of what we order, be efficeint. So M's decided they can sell it. They say give us your waste. Well if we all remember M's has employees making below $8.50 an hour. They can spend a couple extra minutes looking over the glass. It costs them less to do it than you. They have paid less, because they took the waste. Therefor profits go up when they sell it.

    I get it, if you are upset that they are selling it to M's get over it. You are in business to make money, them two too. So this is the way it will always work. If you are mad at them, why not Bainbridge and LJ as well?

    and lets be honest, exclusive...if you believe that oh my. Vendors say they are exclusive to this store, next week a store opens up two doors down and they have the same vendor. This line is exclusive, it may be exclusive to a chain that will sell 1mil a year, but to a store that sell 1k, no that is not happening. It is business. Look at the BB store, there are companies that refused to sell to them. Now years later these same companies are selling the same items to the BB in order to stay in business, because the BB are now so powerful.

    PL
     
  47. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Bob's right -- this surely is one of those "burr under the saddle" issues.

    I say it would be unfair for us, as small independent framers, to expect any manufacturer in our industry to withhold its highest-priced product from one of the largest potential users of it. At least Tru Vue has taken some steps to set us apart from the 800-pound-gorilla in the room, and help to level our playing field.

    Tru Vue created the hybrid "Perfect Vue" glass for this situation, which was optically coated on one side. Why not get rid of that odd-ball hybrid and increase production of their best product -- and be able to sell some of the flaws, as well? The economies of scale work, and reducing scrap losses has to be a good thing. If anything, this deal might drive down the cost of Museum Glass for all of us.

    If you think Tru Vue 'done ya wrong', think again. Consider the good things they do for small-shop framers. Need help with that? Here's a start:

    1. The best point-of-purchase demos in the industry. Free.
    2. Lifesaver POS software, almost free.
    3. Frame Vue visualization software, partially subsidized by Lifesaver.
    4. The most extensive glazing product line, including exceptional acrylic products.
    5. The most extensive distribution network. Nearly all framers in the USA, and many more around the world, can get Tru Vue products at competetitive prices.
    6. Sponsorship of excellent educational classes for framers, on a variety of important technical and business topics.

    Before this thread goes any further toward becoming a bash-Tru Vue, flame-throwing session, let's consider the positives as well as the negatives.
     
  48. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Unless TruVue is not being truthful about the "seconds" theory, I find no fault at all with them and recognize them as a valued supplier to our industry. I also aplaude Michael's for merchandising brilliance in how they brought the museum/masterpiece product to market and turned things to their advantage.

    I would much rather TruVue just sold the product to them under the museum name. What began as something considered as additional ammunition for the independents turned into just the opposite.

    I'm very much a believer in the free market system. I don't think that there should be ANY exclusivity in product selling. Not that there shouldn't be criteria set up by vendors as to how their products are portrayed in the marketplace and therefore what types of dealers are permitted to sell said product ...but anyone who meets that criteria should have the product available to them.

    Dave Makielski
     
  49. realhotglass

    realhotglass MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I can see why people could get up in arms about this, and I can see the business side for TV and M's too.

    For this to be fair to all, including independents, one main thing might be expected . . .
    Pricing for TV Museum should fall, fall fairly dramatically, and fall soon.
    TV are on a darn good 'wicket' with this deal, waste from optically coated glasses is at least 50% (are they possible going to do this for RF as well ? CC ? lines of various acrylics?)

    I believe though, that if TV go ahead make this offer to supply an inferior product (hard to believe this is a good idea in the first place), both independants and bb's should get the right to both levels of product.
    It just looks like a big mess otherwise, and you get the deceptive statements coming out of the woodwork.
     
  50. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    This sounds like the biggest hoax since crop circles?

    If I were placing a wager, it would bet that TV is selling the exact same glass that we (not me) overpay for a much reduced price under a different name. To justify the difference this story was concocted out of thin air. Am I correct that there are now two “official” stories? Is it seconds or is it a slightly different product? No matter to me.

    I would really love to sell MG. I think it looks sweet, it is just overpriced. The reason it makes up 3% of Bob's sales and 0% of mine is because it's so blasted expensive.

    If this "master piece" glass was real, instead of mythological, could this glass be a better seller?

    I couldn't care less if they sell MG to ever Crafty Mart in America. It's just comical that they were "reserving this glass for the indi's". Did Eddie Murphy write that? What I do care about is that if there is a competitive product, why don't I get a stab at it? I agree with David, they WOW us with B.S. while constantly looking for more tangible solutions for the BBs. What’s worse is this spoonful of sugar.... I'm getting cavities.
     
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