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CM Glass

Mecianne

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Well what I think is wrong with it is this: If it is museum glass, call it museum glass. If it looks just as good as is being touted by Michael's as the best glass available what makes it better for us if they call it Masterpiece? In a way it is worse, because they sell it for less than we can sell museum glass and actually it is the same thing. Like I said earlier about flaws....I doubt very seriously that this glass has any obvious flaws at all.

And I may be mistaken, but I don't recall anyone addressing the fact that there can't be that much flawed glass that TV is able to keep one of the industry's largest retailers in stock all the time. TV just tells Michael's that they are SOL until they get another "flawed" batch of Masterpiece? Doubt it.

I have NO problem with TV selling to anyone, even at a reduced bulk price. That's the way things work. And honestly no matter what they call it, it isn't gonna increase my sales of museum glass at all. I just think that telling independents that we get exclusive rights to museum glass is wrong when it is clearly a lie.
 

D_Derbonne

PFG, Picture Framing God
When did TV tell the independents that we have exclusive rights to MG?

I missed that one.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
This is one of those "for what it's worth" posts

We, like the overwhelming majority of framers (except on the G, I guess) sell more regular, clear glass than all others combined. We used to buy our glass in pallets desinated as PVL

These came from the major glass producers and had labels attached that called this product "SSB"

Just because I was cuious, i asked a glass guy what "SSB" meant who quite dimissively stated it meant Single Strength B grade glass with that "You dont know much about glass" look

I queried further and he said that all glass was made basically the same but not all glass was created equally-certainly not to the same exacting standards

So, we got the "B" grade stuff although only once in a blue moon did we "see" a flaw which we either cut down to a smaller size or ignored if very inconsequential

I asked him who got the "A" stuff and his remark was that very little made the "A" quality, but optics people etc paid a real premium for it and we got what worked for us

Seemed logical to me

So does this product going to a single source at a "lower" price

The only thing I agree with the "detractors" is that I wish I could buy some, too

But, then I put my "Big Boy" pants on and understand the way the real world works
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...And I may be mistaken, but I don't recall anyone addressing the fact that there can't be that much flawed glass that TV is able to keep one of the industry's largest retailers in stock all the time. TV just tells Michael's that they are SOL until they get another "flawed" batch of Masterpiece? Doubt it....I just think that telling independents that we get exclusive rights to museum glass is wrong when it is clearly a lie.
You should share your strong opinion with someone who can do something about it, Mecianne. Call 1-800-282-8788, tell them how you feel, and then let us know how they respond to being called liars. If enough Tru Vue customers express your kind of condemnation, perhaps they would appreciate your advice about how to run their company better.

I doubt Tru Vue would respond here directly. If I were them, I wouldn't. It would appear to be defensive, and it would serve no purpose. Tru Vue owes none of us any explanation for their corporate marketing decisions.

Framers who want information about this issue know how to get it directly from the source. Several of us have already done that, Mecianne. Maybe you should, too.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Well, I've gotten one useful idea (at least one) out of this thread, and that's to start out with MG as my glazing recommendation alot more frequently than I do, and have the customer remove it. Of course, not for posters and such, but for original artwork, college degrees, important photos (except wedding photos -- brides are too friggin' cheap to spring for a framing treatment that will outlast their wedding, but hey, let's spend $1200 on a dress that is two sizes too small and that she'll only wear once!!).
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Don't forget the pearls of wisdom about how to price Museum Glass to sell more of it profitably, Paul.

:kaffeetrinker_2:

This pricing philosophy does not have to be limited to Museum Glass. I'm sure if I step outside the box a bit, put on my creative thinking cap and look at how I price other items and services opportunities abound.

Premium products and services present both a potential to make more profits and to introduce customers to services they may never have considered using.

It really is a very fine hair between profitability and business failure. There are buying and selling opportunities involved in the decisions we make daily. The Museum Glass pricing model suggested on this thread provides a selling opportunity beneficial to both the framer and the framing customer.

It is not that difficult, once the commitment is made, to find areas of opportunity for both increasing sales and reducing costs within our businesses ...but we have to get over the hurdle and begin seriously looking at our shops as businesses ...not just a passion. The first step is always the hardest.

Once profitability is the norm and cash flow is unencumbered by Peter robbing Paul ...then the true joy of running one of the most fun businesses can be enjoyed.

If we don't pay attention to profitability then we're better off framing for someone else and being better able to sleep nights

Dave Makielski
 

Mecianne

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Deb,

Refer to post # 13 and ask Jim....or post # 14 and ask Mik.Or as I was told, call Tru Vue and ask them.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If you can't beat em....

"Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project."

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayArticle?articleNum=ae0476
Cool, now I when I get flawed Museum Glass I can sell it. I'll call it Conservation Masterpiece, and state with utmost confidence that it is better than Museum Glass.

Think I'll raise the price on it too since it's "the clearest, best framing glass available".

Perception is everything. Reality means nothing.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
How many ways can you spin this issue?

Cool, now I when I get flawed Museum Glass I can sell it. I'll call it Conservation Masterpiece, and state with utmost confidence that it is better than Museum Glass....
Doug, my understanding from Tru Vue is that Conservation Masterpiece is exclusive to Michael's, and that they are not supposed to mention Museum Glass in any comparison.

Optically coated, anti-reflection glass is the best type of glass available for framing. Masterpiece and Museum Glass are both of that type. So, technically, I believe they could say CM is the best type of glass available, but they could not say it is better than Museum Glass, for two reasons: 1) CM is not better than Museum Glass; and 2) they're not supposed to mention Museum Glass.

Call Tru Vue for more information.
 

Daughn

Grumbler
For me it's more of an ethical question. Is it ethical for them to say that it's the clearest best framing glass available and is it ethical for Tru-Vue to allow them to say it when it isnt true. I dont believe it is. I believe it's more than misleading the customer, it is out right lying. I would hope that Tru-Vue is a better company than that but I guess business is business. I have already written to Tru-Vue and told them how I felt about. And if my customers ask, I will tell them the truth about it.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Lots of questions. Few answers.

...Is it ethical for them to say that it's the clearest best framing glass available and is it ethical for Tru-Vue to allow them to say it when it isnt true.... I would hope that Tru-Vue is a better company than that...
...Better than what?

Can someone here please verify the actual wording of the Michael's ad? I have not seen the ad in question, but if Michael's actually did advertise that their Conservation Masterpiece glass is "the best glass" and not "the best type of glass", then I would agree there is an ethical question.

However, I believe it would be unreasonable to assign responsibility to Tru Vue for that unethical advertising -- if you can verify that it actually happened -- for a few reasons:

1. Michael's (allegedly) advertised that claim. Tru Vue did not.

2. Tru Vue probably would not presume to tell a customer what they may or may not advertsie. Antitrust laws might come into that. If Tru Vue did presume to tell Michael's how to advertise, Michael's probably would tell Tru Vue to mind its own business. Wouldn't you?

3. Each of us is solely responsible for our own advertising. If the claim is fraudulent, Michael's is responsible, not Tru Vue.

4. Unethical may not be illegal.

Daughn, what was Tru Vue's response to your complaint? If you need any help getting a reply, just let us know who you talked to.
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
Have you seen their point of purchase display for Masterpiece? Where we have yellow tassles, theirs has a large butterfly and then the shadowbox itself sits on a nice display stand with "selling verbage" and invites the customer to pick it up and examine it. While Tru-vue has always provided us displays at no cost, this is a much nicer display (more customer friendly) in my opinion than what we have for MG.
 

D_Derbonne

PFG, Picture Framing God
I have a beautiful display from Larson for the three types of glass rather than the two in the tassel display.

It's a much larger display than the tassels and always gets noticed.
It is well worth the cost.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Here is the exact quote from the link Meci posted weeks ago:


The Ultimate Finishing Touch … Glass


Courtesy of Tru Vue®
Add to My Michaels [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]You are both creative and passionate about the things you frame. We understand the sense of pride you get when you hang that special piece in your home. It’s our commitment to give you the very best, that’s why you count on Michaels.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]You can be assured that your framed piece will look its very best for a good, long time.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]See The Fine Detail[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Ordinary glass can mask the beauty of your framed piece. When you use Conservation Masterpiece you can showcase your piece the way it was intended. That’s because the extraordinary anti-reflective properties allow more light to pass through. Now you won’t miss even the smallest detail - from a stitch in clothing to the texture of a piece of fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Experience The Vibrant Colors[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Compared to all other glass, Conservation Masterpiece anti-reflection properties allow the greatest amount of light to reach your artwork. The result is brighter, richer colors than ever before to help you enjoy your art the way it was intended.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Eliminate Glare[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Conservation Masterpiece has special anti-reflection properties which reduces glare - leaving the glass almost “invisible” to the naked eye. Remember that light bulb or other part of the room you can see when you look at your framed piece? Now you can say “good-bye” to glare and say “hello” to your art.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Preserve Your Artwork[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Your framed piece is special to you. And you want your piece to last as long as your memories. That’s why Conservation Masterpiece has the highest UV protection you can get. It helps protect your piece from fading caused by harmful indoor and outdoor lighting. So your good memories will last a good long time.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]See the Conservation Masterpiece Difference.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It’s the Best. Let Us Show You Why.[/FONT]
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jerry, thanks, I'll have to look at Tru-Vues display again. I had not seem that one before and thought that it was exclusive to Michaels and their Conservation Masterpiece. It does seem to indicate then that CM and MG are the same thing, just relabeled. If the customer see the same display at both places are they going to notice the difference in verbage between CM & MG?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
... It does seem to indicate then that CM and MG are the same thing, just relabeled....
Yes, still again, Masterpiece and Museum Glass are the same product. The only difference is that Tru Vue has slightly relaxed QC for the Masterpiece product. Minor blemishes that would not make it into a Museum Glass box might make it into a Masterpiece box.

That does not mean that Masterpiece is all defective glass. It means Tru Vue has found a way to slightly reduce their scrap losses. Most Masterpiece glass is exactly the same as Museum Glass, I'm sure.

...If the customer see the same display at both places are they going to notice the difference in verbage between CM & MG?
POP displays are intended to help us explain things to customers. I have not seen any "difference in verbiage between CM and MG", but in my limited experience, customers will misinterpret almost anything that is not thoroughly explained by the trained, highly proficient, helpful, smiling framer across the table. It's our job to make the best case for our own products and services.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Here is the exact quote from the link Meci posted weeks ago:
...Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available.
Thanks for posting that, Emibub. Michaels has some really good ad writers, and doesn't that just frost your cookies? They know how to put the words juuuust right, for their advantage. Ya gotta hand it to 'em.

If that claim were to be tested legally -- which will never happen, of course -- I'm sure their lawyers would point out that the first words of the sentence, "Available exclusively at Michaels..." mean that Conservation Masterpiece is the "...best framing glass available."... at Michaels. And that would be true.

By the same reasoning, I could rightfully claim that "Museum Glass is absolutely the best glass available exclusively at ARTFRAME on Hill Road in Pickerington." That would be a true statement, because on Hill Road in Pickerington, ARTFRAME is presently the only (that is, exclusive) framer supplying Museum Glass.

Anyway, I'm planning to continue selling the best glass, which is Museum Glass -- and profitably, too.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
There's no such thing as a monor imperfection in glass

When has any framer allowed even the slightest scratch, pock mark or distortion in a piece of glass to ever leave a shop? In my experience, never.

Becasue there is nothing more obvious than a flaw in glass, it's inconceivable to me that any framing busuiness, let alone the largest in the wold, is willing to accept less than flawless glass.

Who's kdding who here?

I for one do not believe this BS about relaxed standards. This is a clear case of a company looking for an advantage and using what could possibly be deemed an anti-competitive act in order to do so.

Any supplier who wllingly allows a compeitor to use their trademark to do so, is in my opinion placing itself in a precarious position.

Furthermore, any company that knowingly permits a customer to make a false claim about its product that could potentially harm competitors, especially a very large company, desreves our wrath.

I can tell you this, if another company is actually getting the best, I will not settle for second best. Will you?

How much of this are we going to put up with?
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
I don't care what they call it, I don't care if the standards are relaxed, because I just took an order from Hot Jennifer From The Salon Down The Street to frame a watercolor using Museum Glass, and I just completed two other orders using Museum Glass. So there!
 

Steph

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm finding some of the responses, or defending rather curious...but then again I'm rather suspicious of many things these days.
 

Daughn

Grumbler
When has any framer allowed even the slightest scratch, pock mark or distortion in a piece of glass to ever leave a shop? In my experience, never.

Becasue there is nothing more obvious than a flaw in glass, it's inconceivable to me that any framing busuiness, let alone the largest in the wold, is willing to accept less than flawless glass.

Who's kdding who here?

I for one do not believe this BS about relaxed standards. This is a clear case of a company looking for an advantage and using what could possibly be deemed an anti-competitive act in order to do so.

Any supplier who wllingly allows a compeitor to use their trademark to do so, is in my opinion placing itself in a precarious position.

Furthermore, any company that knowingly permits a customer to make a false claim about its product that could potentially harm competitors, especially a very large company, desreves our wrath.

I can tell you this, if another company is actually getting the best, I will not settle for second best. Will you?

How much of this are we going to put up with?
Paul, I agree with you 100%. My question is, what CAN we do about it? I emailed Tru-Vue with my concerns and I havent heard a thing from them.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Put that same letter in an envelope to the CEO of Tru Vue and send it via Priority Mail with a delivery confirmation. Now there is a an official record and whether it's ignored or not, won't matter.

If you publish the name and address here, maybe others will follow suit.
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
If I didn't know better. I would think that someone in this thread is a paid spokesperson for TruVue glass.



One of my wishes to the magic genie has been for Larson Juhl to get into the glass business. It could happen. They bought a matboard company. They bought a metal moulding manufacturer.

Just think about it, Conservation Artique Glass available exclusively at Cedarwood Gallery

We have lost almost all of our choices for upscale glass over the years. Now that we have only one choice, what are we to do?

Hopefully some company will come along and offer an alternative. There are tons of suppliers for regular old glass, just not the good stuff.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
What I would like to do is buy some of it.

It's quite unclear how that glass contrasts MG. It’s quite clear how it compares to MG. It also seems that the price point on this glass is MUCH cheaper than MG.

TruVue, if you're a friend of mine, give me a chance to buy it OR never make a another claim about quality or exclusivity again.

If this glass has relaxed standards, fine. If that's your claim, then own it! I'll try it. Of coarse I'm not going to pay such a premium for a lessor glass but I'll take the gamble. Where do I buy it and how much? It sounds like a perfect solution for guys like me that refuse to give $100 for a piece of glass. I'm no better than Michael’s and if it works for them, give me a shot. Well? Unless this is all a big fat marketing hoax then of coarse I'll never be given such a chance.
 

stshof

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Cmon guys!

I don't spend much time on the Grumble anymore - the topics don't matter much after you go out of business - but I got curious about this one. 3,486 hits, 124 posts, maybe drr is back? ;)

I can't believe all the conversation! Anybody actually doing anything besides talking? If my observation angers you, maybe it's time to act!!!:shrug:

Back to Warped, my new favorite forum...:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
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