PFG, Picture Framing God
What is everyone paying and where are you getting it? We go through a lot of this stuff and are currently using Berkshire, but the price has doubled over time.
When I need flaw board, I e-mail my LJ rep and she sends a 25 or 50 sheet pack. Years ago, she sent random damaged sheets. We would sort out each package and find all sort of good useable alphacellulose board in there, including fabrics. Most had a corner ding or a small scratch. I guess they found a better use for that stuff, because it suddenly changed and we had to buy Berkshire cream paper mat. We usually use 222. I miss the old price though.Being very hard of hearing, I avoid the phone at all costs. I do all my LJ ordering online. I also ask them to verify via email rather than phone
Regarding price discussions, I consider flaw boards supplies, not items that are usually associated with sale to the public, so I am not concerned about a price discussion here. We don't have free delivery from United or Decor, but we do from Omega, so I will check with their rep for price. Otherwise, the best I can get is Berkshire.Kirstie, I usually buy flaw boards from suppliers like United Mfrs. or Decor moulding.
They usually have piles and sell them for the prices already quoted. They don't allow people to cherry pick the pile, just to purchase in quantity. I know some framers have bought entire stacks of 500 sheets and found suedes and all sorts of acid free boards. Some of the boards were too good to use as slip sheets.
Yep. I'm a stickler for rules, especially when they protect a revenue stream for myself (and likely others). I'll point out this type of issue all day long rather than put myself in a situation where I'm having to negotiate all over with customers that buy on a semi wholesale level. Sorry, but I didn't make the rules of the forum. My understanding is that we don't talk wholesale prices. People can exchange PM's all day long talking pricing if they want to but I believe that there isn't supposed to be wholesale pricing in the forums. Is that right Mike Labbe?Apparently some are sticklers for rules...
Pat, I think the problem is there are some framers that aren't as adept at purchasing. Their retail price could very well be our cost. When we talk any prices, including the cost of flaw board, it can hurt their revenue stream.It is ridiculous to suggest that there is harm in discussing price, along with sources, of "flaw" board. Aren't we here to help fellow Grumblers?
Huh? If that's the case and they have a handle on their pricing then they are definitely buying right.Pat, I think the problem is there are some framers that aren't as adept at purchasing. Their retail price could very well be our cost. When we talk any prices, including the cost of flaw board, it can hurt their revenue stream.
I'm surprised when I hear the high prices some are paying for supplies and materials. There's as much an art in buying as there is in selling.
There are probably things in your shop you sell that I do not.Regarding price discussions, I consider flaw boards supplies, not items that are usually associated with sale to the public, so I am not concerned about a price discussion here. We don't have free delivery from United or Decor, but we do from Omega, so I will check with their rep for price. Otherwise, the best I can get is Berkshire.
Mike, feel free to remove whatever you want from my initial post. I thought flawboard was a non issue and was trying to find a better deal on it. I apologize if I was wrong. Carry on--glad I don't have your job --KirstieThis (old) thread has received two moderator alerts, because the prices of supplies/materials were mentioned by 5 people (and the initial post was asking for prices).
The forum has a policy of asking nicely that folks don't post retail markup formulas or the costs for materials/supplies. While I think scrap/flaw board is borderline a non-issue, at least two members strongly disagree. In the interest of coming to a resolution, and reducing the time/workload spent handling moderator alerts for this particular issue..... I give the original posters the volunteer option of having their posts edited, to remove the prices and replace them with asterisks. Since so much time has passed, I think this would be the best way to handle it.
If the following members would like their posts edited, please PM me briefly and I'll take care of it immediately.
Mike, Mod team
Thank you Jeff. I totally agree with the bolded section. This just seems logical to me but Mike was kind enough to inform me that the pricing thing isn't really a rule, rather a suggestion and it doesn't cover "flawed/scrap boards and closeout products as they don't have a set price". So I guess in theory you would be well within the wheelhouse to print the prices of any moulding or mats you get at a closeout price if you wanted to. I hope you don't since you buy many mouldings for pennies on the dollar compared to many of us.While I didn't ask to have prices removed I think it is a good idea to take them down. Over the weekend I looked up pricing on some moulding that a large number of framers have corner samples hanging on their wall. This moulding is 4" wide so most framers would buy it as a chop and therefore they are paying $21 per foot MORE than I pay for the same item number. Think about how angry your customers would be if I posted the item numbers and they read it here in the public section of the Business Issues. Based on traditional mark ups there would be a massive difference in the retail price of the item numbers on say a 30x40 frame. I have a very large number of customers that found me after internet searches and reading the Grumble.
If it is disposable supply, why do some people on this forum and thread sell it? Oh, so others can dispose of it after paying a healthy markup. What is disposable for one may be revenue for another. Mike explained the forums position. He also explained that it barely fell outside of him going back to edit it. So I think that it's not that far outside of the wheelhouse but thanks for chiming in. It's good to know where you stand on the matter but there are two sides of this argument and not understanding how others could possibly be impacted by it doesn't impact the fact that they might be.Flaw board is a disposable supply. It's like asking what you pay for paper towels. Used paper towels at that. I don't discuss pricing specifics, wholesale or retail on the open forums but this is not the same thing. Give the moderators a break.
I work with the teachers in two school districts who use it for school projects and other things (they will cut around bad sections for art projects, etc). I also have two customers who both do framing of memorabilia for wholesale purposes to sell during golf tournaments. One of them frames over 100 pieces a week during the summer. They buy their materials through me for companies that won't deliver to their home (read: LJ). They both have wizards and buy flawboard for that as well as one of them backs cheaper items with it.Ok I'm confused....... isnt the whole idea of Flaw board....... to use it with our CMC's??
Why the heck would you sell it???
I've sold all that too (well, never had anyone ask for a plastic bag that I recall)+ screws, wire, atg, whatever they'd like. It's a convienience for the customer. Not worried that they'll discover what I pay for a box of screws. We're an art supply store as well as picture framing (34 yrs) Never recall selling a sheet of flaw board either in the 13 years I've had a cmc. Didn't even know companies sold it till Wizard told me. I think it's a great question. It's one of those new expenses of having a cmc that didn't exist before. We not only use it to line the cutting bed but use far more of it doing test runs of the more complicated mats. Originally we bought direct from Crescent. We'd place board orders a couple of times a year, mat board, Illustration, mounting, poster, etc. Their minimum was fairly hefty for a small store like us & for flaw board I'd have to order at least 200 sheets. Then a few years ago I think they tripled their minimum order & now it's just too much for us.For the record - I also sell artist tape, framers tape, points, metal frame hardware, kraft paper and plastic bags to people. Things that they could get from another supplier but because of our relationship or because they don't order enough of it to be economical, they come to me and I make money on it. I bet none of you would have an issue with the costs of most of these being revealed either but it would impact me (and others).
Yep, all striped & paper mat. Not much good for anything but slip sheets. Probably why I've never sold one, you think? I mean, we'll sell anything. I do remember one time when Crescent was out of the paper mat flaw & I had to buy rag mat flaw. It was much more expensive but that was offset by the fact that it was at least useable for some backings. I wonder if they even sold it before the advent of cmc's? I'm sure it wasn't in the catalog & we had to ask about it at the suggestion of the folks at Wizard. It's kind of an annoying expense but at least now all my customers snooping this thread can appreciate the expense I go to to cut them good mats. I'm sure they also appreciate that I'm trying to keep the expense low too so if anyone has a line on better prices I'd love to hear, post or pm.Well, it USED to be that flaw board had pink (if I remember) stripes on the face of it, and could only be used for slip sheets. I assume it is easier just to take damaged board and put it in a stack to be sold cheaply, because it can't be sold full price, so get rid of it.