Come together right now...

I might have been, and for that, I apologize if necessary. If. I really don't care to stir this pot, though; there's no good answers. I can understand how an employee feels underappreciated and we all know that framers can be underpaid. I just read in all this that things were pretty even at this point and all that was left was "poor, me" stuff. and in all fairness, framechick was posting that right after her last day, so she was down, it sounded. It might have been a completely different post the next morning.

I shouldn't have responded to this thread, but what really hit my hot button was that opening statement that she thought the people who were reading this thread would have more insight (I read sympathy for her). That bothered me, especially when she went on to demonstrate a clear lack of insight into the bigger picture of her own situation.

But framechick, if you read this when you slow down a bit from your new job, I sincerely meant this as an honest and frank opinion. Nothing more. My advice is to not give so much notice next time, but give a decent amount, at least a week or ten days if that's appropriate.

I would massacre a razor blade attempting to sharpen one.......... it would never cut anything again.
 
What happened to the idea that you hired someone and they became part of the team. In teams there is no what's in it for the individual. As an employer I am paying a wage hopefully for skill, cooperation, loyalty, trustworthiness, and non confrontational behavior. Nothing more, nothing less. Since employers are the ones that sign the checks I guess we need to conform to their standard and not to employee expectations, realistic or not.

What a lot of employees fail to understand is that when times get tight tough choices have to be made and skill is not always the deciding factor.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Originally posted by po' framer:
Framechick

I must be one of those without insight, I guess, but we all have our crosses to bear.
Not agreeing with me does not equal a lack of insight. If I had wanted someone to say "You were right and he was wrong, Wrong , WRONG!" I would have called my mom instead of posting to the grumble.

Your particular one may be a knack for burning bridges and then feeling sorry for yourself afterwards, in my most humble opinion.
By giving long notice and doing my job well until the very end was my way of not burning a bridge. I do not in fact feel sorry for myself. I made a decision based on the needs of my family, and I believe that in my shoes my boss would have done the same thing.

I didn't expect a big "warm & fuzzy" send off. It's just that everyone else that has left in the time I've worked there has ended with a meeting with the owners where they hand over their keys, and manual (it wasn't that I wanted to keep it - it just boggles my mind that an operation of that size could find that many pages to include)and are handed their final check.

I was struck by several things while reading your post (sorry, none of them were lightning or heavy objects):

1. Yes, you're over-reacting. Sounds like both of you did what was required and behavior was essentially correct, although perhaps too cool for your tastes. My personal feeling is that you gave too much notice, but that's just my preference, as long departure times tend to get messy. My policy has always been to give a company as much notice as it would give me in return, and you can discover what that is if you keep your antennae out. A pay cycle is usually a good amount of notice; if you were getting paid monthly, then you gave the correct amount of notice, technically.

Looking back I would not give more than two weeks again. As for overreacting - particularly valid among all of the points po'framer has has made is that I posted this the very evening of the last day.


7. As manager, wouldn't you remove someone from the system who had just had their last day? Actually, what were you doing in the order entry system anyway?
Point of sale - I was waiting on customers and entering their orders during my last day. I would have removed them the following day. Furthermore, the initials of a woman who has not worked there since October of 1999 and another who left in January of this year remain undisturbed.

I hope you take this in the right spirit. The whole thing sounds like a wash to me. Both of you used each other for what they could, but you got the better end of it by moving to something you desired. It's too bad that feelings were hurt through it all and I wish both of you well in the future.

That's exactly how it seemed in the clear light of the next (gorgeous sunny 85 degree) day. It just played out more like a break up than leaving a job. I have changed jobs many times in the last 17 years and have always left on good terms.

I guess another way to look at it is to be flattered that he isn't happy to see me go. .

And in my own defense - it is called "The Grumble"
 
No need at all to be defensive, and it most certainly is called the Grumble so we can all grumble away and stomp the snakes which keep biting us.

Thank you for your clear responses, and in some cases, clarifications. I will admit that your tone in general was unexpected and a pleasant surprise.

I agree with you that your treatment was a clear sign that your boss was sad to see you go, and most likely was manifested as a result of frustrations that he had considered his business unable to reverse the situation, for whatever reason.

It's a good reminder to us all that parting is sweet sorrow only when it's not drug out for too long, even with the best of intentions, perhaps.
 
Art Lady -

If you sign with a team to play center forward, based on your successful record as a center forward and once you start you are put in as a halfback for a year and a half you are going to look for a team where you can play center forward before there's no one left who remembers that you were a good one.

Not all employees are only looking out just for themselves. It is especially frustrating to work hard at growing a business, increasing sales, improving operations and see the owner make decisions which will reverse those efforts. Now, I am fully aware of my place in the food chain and he has every right to run his business exactly as he sees fit, but I'm not going to stick around to watch him run it into the ground. Loyalty is a quality I value but believe it should be well placed. The driving factor in my decision was that I was not making enough money to support my son. I don't think I'm entitled to a bigger percentage of the pie. I just needed to go where the pie is big enough that my piece will adequately meet my needs as well as my son's.
 
Framechick,

Certainly you should make enough to support you and your son. You need employment that affords your basic needs being met. To leave for more money in my mind is a good reason to leave.

However, may I suggest that leaving because you do not agree with the owner is not necessarily a good reason to leave. Criticism is a very easy habit to fall into. But perhaps we could consider helping the boss make his business plan work as a matter of habit. You may need the guy someday for a referrral.

Years ago I worked for someone that was not very popular. Our attitude was to make him look so good he would get promoted and go on to be someone else's boss. I respected myself and kept any negative thoughts to myself. Because I respected myself, I got respect in return. Remember bosses are people too. We have bad days, we have headaches, we make mistakes, and sometimes we have trouble dealing with situations.

Perhaps, that is just a situation the boss has difficulty handling. You did what you thought was best. As long you left without causing issues for his business then you left with your self respect. So go now and enjoy your new job and don't even give it a thought. Good Luck.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
I've observed that owners of very small enterprises tend to be in business for themselves less for their financial acumen and leadership flair than for the fact that they are tempermentally unsuited to be employees. So they "become their own boss," and maybe even someone else's, largely because they hate being told what to do. Most are pretty decent folks who drive themslves quite hard and see their staff's 40-hour week as a pretty soft life.
My policy has always been to try to give the owners what they want. Working cheek-by-jowl with the bosses, I've never had to ask for a raise in any job. They can see what they're getting for their payroll dollars and judge my labor's value to their operation. If I didn't feel cherished I'd move on. Picture framing is a low-wage, dead-end position, so there's no reason to put up with excessive bad vibes. After all, it's not like you'll be socking away crazy amounts of money or looking ahead to a fat pension. Even if I were willing to sell my soul, few frame shops have that kind of budget.
 
RevBev,
Your remarks are so accurate and well balanced! I agree with you. Many framers became what they are because they couldn't take it as employees and framing art and trade are among the easiest to pick and hold in big style. Sooner or later framing will mirror their lives and this is why many framers are so reluctant to grow their businesses, for staying ahead of their competition and making big money is not in their temperament. That's the true reason for today's inflation of framing shops, not the exploding demand. But, be aware, what's easy to get is also easy to lose...

[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited April 24, 2001).]
 
RevBev- Your remarks are dead on. Moving on is a constant in this trade. About low pay, dead end-Absolutely correct. It is what it is. But I think that explains why of the people that own their own business, about 15% are in "business" for themselves, the other 85% are really only self-employeed framers.
 
Bob you may have discovered a nonoffensive term to describe home-based framers. Self-employed framers.
 
Mitch-You might be right. I wasn't trying to be offensive to anyone, simply stating like RevBev indicated that there are a lot of people that just don't want to work for someone else. That's fine with me. I just think they cloud the line between self-employeed and being in business. Both sides are certainly acceptable. The people in business just seem to take their business to a higher plane. Nothing wrong with the person that doesn't want to go the other direction, they just seem to be the most apparent.
 
That's absolutely right, Bob, and so is RevBev's assertion.

It may well be that the differences of which you speak are inadvertent, or they could be a conscious decision (I'm speaking of being a self-employed framer vs a business owner). Someone could think they're a business owner but are really SEF's, for instance, but I doubt it would be the other way around.

That's a pertinent point for us because we're at the point of having to make that decision. Do we train some framers or do we cap our business based on the number of hours we've got in a day and can do x amount?

Because I'm unwilling or maybe unable to make that decision at this point, the decision is to set it back a bit: leverage our talent/time by increasing efficiency and shedding unskilled tasks. Let things come to a new equilibrium and evaluate it: are we making enough money and happy with what we are doing?

There are those who are framing who should be managing, probably, and there are definitely those managing who should be framing. The examination is personal: which are you? (I'm not asking you that question, Bob, because you've answered it yourself long ago) Think about your activities during the day and what you find to be fulfilling: do you view ordering, bookeeping or marketing as grand tasks or a necessary thorn while sliding down the bannister or life? Are you always getting framing work done at the last minute because you've been working on business issues during the day? Overly simplified, true, but we'd be happier if we answered the questions and set about to fit into our niche better.

po' framer edict: When in doubt, go with how God wired you.

Perhaps the day has come for the contract framer: have stuff - will frame, whether for an exclusive design group or several. Work guaranteed to enhance your customers' view of you and bring them back. Have a thorny problem? call and I'll be right over, or drag your customer to my shop if you wish. It's ok because it's a working shop in a light industrial area: I don't even have a storefront, display corners or design area: I'm 'your' framer, not theirs, and they have to go through you to get me to do their work. You know exactly how we work and we discuss issues on a B2B basis, instead of you having to 'manage' an employee. Hmmmm interesting concept for a self-employed framer, eh?
 
Don't forget those of us who sell. And then there is the marketing hat.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Don't forget those of us who can't stand wearing the same hat all day and enjoy the variety.
 
Well, I have to admit that I wasn't thinking of that when I wrote it, but my brain was full!

I'm that way myself in a sense, but don't let me call you a control freak or anything! I like to do lots of different things, but framing to me is really nice and relaxing. I can get involved in a project and the world just kind of goes away.
 
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