Copyright Infringement


PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I am not worried about in, but my question is where is the line?

To be honest, I don't recall that conversation. But then again my memory is not what it used to be.


PFG, Picture Framing God
There used to be a favorite saying in the exhibit houses I worked at:

"Creativity is the art of concealing your source".:thumbsup::thumbsup:

couture's gallery

PFG, Picture Framing God
OK I'm late to the party. I've been in rehab all morning for my neck and back due to that rear ender I was involved in in Dec, so I just got in and we are slammed with customers due to iour 15th anniversary sale,

BUT , I will have a lot to say about this as soon as I can get loose, probably in the Sat am.

Apology to Kriste, it was inadvertant.

Most ogf you know I'm pretty computer illierate and don't even knowe hiow to post pictures on the grumble, so I have a pro web designer who takes of all that. I intend to find out more than I'll post

So , as Paul Harvey would have said...stsy tuned for the rest of the story.

I typed this fast so excuse the typos/


PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I am not worried about in, but my question is where is the line?

To be honest, I don't recall that conversation. But then again my memory is not what it used to be.

Dave, you do such innovative jersey designs that I'll bet you would draw a huge client audience if you had a separate sports framing web site for them. Of course then people would want you to ship them. We shipped a framed UCLA football jersey with memorabilia to Sacramento last year and the FedEx bill was really high. However, the customer was willing to pay for Sarah's design so she accepted the shipping bill. Just a thought because our page gets a lot of attention.

Those sports backgrounds are a great idea, but for some reason I can't seem to sell them. Mike was going to do one each for various sports but until we get more interest, that project is on hold.

Thanks for your understanding.

couture's gallery

PFG, Picture Framing God
Dick here with hopefully the last word on this. ( Caution, LONG POST )

1ST; I do not do my own website work, and I realize I am responsible for it's content anyway. I have a professional web person do it. I can barely use a computer and Allora will not even touch one, she thinks the internet and forums and such are a bigger vast wasteland then TV is. ( and this may be proving her right). I could probably build a Mars rover before I could build web site.

My web designer is highly experienced and does hundreds of sites. She is not a framer so I have to give her all the input and ideas as related to our industry.

2ND: About 18 months ago ( give a take a couple of months) one of people who I work with one of environmental organizations I volunteer on asked me why I don't put a page on my site reflecting our recycling I said OK , sounds good. Since LK ( my web girl) was working on a few pages for me I called and told her let's do a green page. She said Ok give me some stuff for it. So I rattled off our recycling efforts and the organizations we work with. She wanted more, so I told her to look and see if any other framers were using anything and I also gave her a list of all the suppliers we use who toot thier horn on how they are green.

Couple weeks later she brings me a page, I look it over and say OK, looks good, let's go with that. Lk told me she found all this info on the supplier sites and found several framers using it all over the country, and all pretty much said the same thing on every site.
She said none of it was copywrighted and was so generic that all it really did was enhance the suppliers green message and everyone was using it, so no problem.
Since LK's husband is an attourney and she is a webmaster and an artist she is well aware of copywright stuff, and has never had a problem with any of her sites.

3RD: Lk and Jim are traveling right now ( He's a lawyer for Toyota and travels alot), but upon her return I'll be looking with her in depth as to how Kirste's wording got on my site. I can assure that it was not intentional.

I emailed Lk when I learned of the problem and told her to change the page and gave her my copy to substitute . She was able to magically do it from her laptop .


4TH: I Apologize to Kirstie for this inadvertant use, and invite her to bill me for any lost revenue experienced by her losing customers from the left coast being influenced by my green page here on the east coast .

5TH : Having been accused of "stealing" on the open forum on the Grumble I feel that it could have been handled in a better way.

We have this thing called a TELEPHONE , we have E-MAIL, and we have that little PM thingy on the Grumble.
All of my contact info is on my home page. Any and/or ALL of these methods could have been used to notify me of the problem, which I would have immediately looked into and corrected.
As for Rob bateing me and "outing" me, I don't think it worhty of a comment.

I MAY BE OLD AND NOT SO BRIGHT.... BUT "if" I was to "steal" something from a fellow grumblers site, let's see...Oh, I know..I'D POST IT ON GRUMBLE AND ASK FOR YOU GUYS ON THE GRUMBLE TO CRITIQUE IT.

THAT MAKES a lot of SENSE, Doesn't it?

SO HERES THE DEAL......Please everyone look at every word , picture and comma and period on my site and be sure I haven't used any of your stuff. If I have let me know via e-mail or PM and i will IMMEDEIATELY CHANGE THE FREAKIN THING.

Thanks, Dick


WOW Framer
Good for you, Dick, for making that post and thank you for letting us know.
Warning: long post ahead.

This is exactly the situation my boss wound up in last year when
she hired someone from a cold call to design a site for us. We had
a site years ago that the guy didn't maintain, so she let it go, and
although there's a wealth of helpful Grumble input on making a website,
she has almost no interest in making use of this resource. But when
some completely unknown person called, offering to do it for way more
than it should cost, she jumped at the chance. I shall not comment
further on the relative wisdom of that choice.

The net result, however, was utterly pathetic, surely infringed on the
photographic rights of others, made our shop look awful and was a source of
great frustration to her. Whoever did it took forever and finally set up 'our' site,
with text my boss had written, one small section showing her own personal
artwork, and everything else pirated from online. They had pictures of the worst,
carpy old framing from what must have been the early 80's and photos from inside
some shop that was God only knows where.

It was incredibly embarrassing, and she had a dickens of a time backing out
of the contract. She only did that after they refused to make necessary changes
to the site, and we started getting calls from some guy who'd also hired them, after
he found our company name and contact info. on his private business website. The
only thing I could think was that they must have outsourced their website making,
perhaps even to another country. It was just awful.

The way I see it, a business should either have an original, well-maintained site
or none at all. I'm very sorry that you wound up in this awkward position, and I'm
glad that both Kirstie & you have helped to shed light on this problem. Perhaps a
simple way to check for originality of content would be to take whatever your website
person submits to you and do a Google search to see if it's anywhere else online.

Hushing up.

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I see you are still using the words "Art" and "Frame" on your site Dick but you have my full permission to do so. :shutup:

I agree with the comments you have made about the whole situation.


MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Most of the time they left links to pictures hosted on our server
I love when they do that, recently I noticed in my website stats that a conservative forum website was using one of my images. So I changed the image on my server to a picture of Obama 2012. LOL

With Geosetter's freeware ( you can add copyright data along with all kinds of info to images.
But copyright data like this can easily be removed.


couture's gallery

PFG, Picture Framing God
Well, I will not copywrite anything on my site ( I wouldn't know how to do it anyway ) so you'all can use any of it. It would be flattering to me if you did.
I'm sure my customers won't leave me if something of mine is on another site.

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I think your son gave you the best advice, it really isn't worth the aggravation, nor the effort. However, I do understand your irritation.

Mike Labbe

Forum Support Team Administrator
Team member
I love when they do that, recently I noticed in my website stats that a conservative forum website was using one of my images. So I changed the image on my server to a picture of Obama 2012. LOL
Oh I did much worse than that, with our old/original site! :) hahaha

One was pretty straightforward, and was shown in more than a dozen places on their site...

The other was rude! Too rude to display here.

Last edited:


CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Just remember one thing. Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the tangible expression of the ideas. Your Photos, frame designs and writings.

Best protection is to formally register copyright. With photos(I am most familiar with this media) formal registration gives you a big club of Attorney Fee awards even if the infringement is small. This helps in getting an attorney to take the case on contingency.

DMCA takedown notices are worth the time and effort. I have had a website shut down by the ISP pursuant to one. Seems mine was the second one he had on them in a year so he shut them down completely to prevent liability - until they showed the offending material had been removed and payment of my licensing fees made. He let them back up then with the 'third time and you are out of here for good' warning.

You own your intellectual property, might as well determine who you will allow to use it.