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Credit Card Companies, Scumbags

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by UzZx32QU, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. UzZx32QU

    UzZx32QU Administrator Staff Member

    Are slime!!!! I use to have a nice company to deal with locally but it sold it's CC business to gangster's R us. I don't mind the shrinking grace period but then they don't get the bill to you for a week after cutting your statement. I figure I have 3 days, give or take a day to get the payment in the mail. I use to have 2+ weeks. Now I got a receipt saying I paid on the due date from my computer but they didn't post it till 5 day later. Then charged be a late fee on my current statement showing my payment.

    This is wrong. Card Cancelled....

    Crooks and thief's they are.


    I will no longer except or use a card without a 25 day grace period.

    Sponsor Wanted
  2. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    Another trick they like to use is lowering your credit limit to an amount that is pretty much exactly what your balance is, without any warning, so that they can automatically charge you fees for exceeding your balance, etc.
  3. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Don't just shred the card. Be sure and cancel the account in writing and check to make sure they do it.

    I once applied for credit and got turned down because I had almost $ 80,000 available credit in revolving charge accounts I never canceled but shred the cards. The revolving accounts, some department store charge cards, went back over twelve years without any use. I didn't realize they were still open ...didn't even think about it. Probably had a worse credit score because of the availability of that much instant credit too and had a higher interest rates on the cards I did maintain.

    I think calling credit card companies slimy scumbags is being awfully nice, framer. These are folks that can wear a top hat and walk under the belly of a snake with room to spare.
  4. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Yea they are snakes. I know the CC companies are doing fine but I wonder if they are getting pinched as my generation is hopefully getting wise to how crooked they are?

    I know I pay them much much much less then I did just a few years ago. Soon I won't be paying them anything and never will again.
  5. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have no credit cards whatsoever anymore and never will again after I see all the shenanigans they pull nowadays. If I don't have the money I don't buy it ...period.

    There is nothing I need bad enough to go into debt for.
  6. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Jay, you may be an exception in your generation. The under 35s are one of the biggest credit card using groups in the country and have some of the largest balances per user in that age group.

    There was a Frontline on credit card companies last year. Some of the terms and conditions are written in such a convoluted way that even law professors who specialize in credit law can't decipher them.
  7. couture's gallery

    couture's gallery PFG, Picture Framing God

    you almost are forced to have a cc these days, try to book a hotel or a flight without one...I have 1 personal and 2 business that I pay off in full every month .....really have to watch them try to pull something and get on their case right away, a threat to canx them will get you quick action.
  8. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    It is almost impossible to live without debt.

    The vast majority would never own a house or a car.


    Some CC companies are better than others. The trick is find one that is decent and stay with them. I have found that having a CC with my bank helps. There is not as many perks as some of the others, but there is not the deception either.
  9. UzZx32QU

    UzZx32QU Administrator Staff Member

    Famous quote: The difference between a rich man and a poor man is Debt. The rich man owes the most.


  10. dougj

    dougj SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I made a HUGE mistake and signed for a new car for my daughter.
    Well she bailed, left me with the payments, had to give the car back to Chrysler.
    WELL all my CC company's jumped on the band wagon and RAISED my interest and lowered my credit line to just what I owed so they could charge me over limit
    I was always on time with my payments. 1 card since 1986 never a problem.
    Now they are starting to send the bill 2 days before due
    What pi$$es me off is there is no dated postage stamp on the bill
    When did they really send it ?????????????????????????
    I would suggest that everyone contact their Representatives, Senators and Postmaster and make them put a DATED POSTAGE ON THEM.
    Yes I am seeing a lawyer to fight these LOAN SHARKS
    PS So sue me I have nothing in my name(learned that form a previous divorce)
    My only defence is I'VE BEEN FRAMED
  11. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Seems that I heard that Congress is making attempts to reel the CC companies in. Dont know how it will end though. Cancelling the cards may not be the best idea. I cancelled several cards that rate jacked me for no reason. My credit score took a nose dive because of what I did and I lost my aging on the cards, and my utilization looked high because of it. I did this just before I started re-fi on my home shopping. I didnt get the rate I was hoping for, and probably could have if I hadnt cancelled those cards. I should have just put those cards in a drawer or freezer, and let them continue aging. Just my 2 cents.
  12. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Doug, guess what? The next time you try to get auto insurance (and homeowners for all I know) they may put you at a higher rate becuase of your credit report. I haven't been able to understand the link between poor credit and bad driving but apparently there is one.
  13. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It was explained to me that if you have bad credit you would be more apt to committ fraud....fake an accident or report an accident that didn't happen just to collect. Not sure if that's true, but it's a reason to jake up the rates. And they always seem to find a reason.
  14. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    I asked the insurance guys next door to my store and they said studies show that people who don't pay their bills on time are more apt to be in accidents and file claims. They also incur extra costs from insufficient funds and with the 30 day grace period they pay out a lot for damages during that 30 day period. It seems to me that you should have an accident or default on a payment before they punish you but insurance companies pretty much call all the shots.
  15. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I completely agree with you. I have numerous credit cards, pay in full every month and never had a huge problem with any of the cc companies. I watch carefully every month what is spent on cc. Have a very simple system in excell and just add all receipts every day (takes me 2 minutes at the most) when needed.
    I think bigger problem is that most people don't know how to keep track of what and how much they spend.
    I only buy what I can afford, and I know up till the last cent what I spend and what's left to spend.
  16. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Kathy, if the "guy next door" is an insurance guy, I would be shocked if he couldn't pull something out of his backside. My insurance guy was real rehearsed in why he couldn't pay for my 4k worth of stereo stolen from my truck. The rules and reasons quoted to me almost made me seem like he gives that explanation every day or so. I just looked around his office and said, "This would be a great place to open an insurance company ya know?"

    I'll bet at least 95% of everybody reading this has has some really bad credit at one time or another. Most likely it could be linked to opening their business. Did anybody's driving seriously decline during this time?

    I went a long time with no CC. You can live just fine on a debit card. You can rent rooms and book flights and everything else.
  17. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Paying with a debit card is bad idea.

    One has absolutely no recourse (well, small claims court maybe) if things go bad, fraud, things are not delivered, bad service, defective product etc. A credit card offers you the option to contest the charges.

    With a debit card the money is taken out of your bank account immediately and good luck with getting a penny back.
  18. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Credit card companies spend a lot of money in advertising to gain a new cardholder, as a result, they will normally waive any late fees with just a phone call.

    The whole credit card industry is a parasite. They take from the merchants and the consumer. How much more income would you have had last year if you didn't give 2-2-1/2 percent to you credit card processor. It's an absolute ripoff.

    However, looking at the exemption credit card debt gets in bankruptcies tells us that their political contribution/clout means that little is likely to change.

    Most people who file bankruptcy got into trouble because of credit card debt and the outrageous interest rates and penalties. Exempting it from bankruptcy makes a sham of the bankrupcty process.
  19. couture's gallery

    couture's gallery PFG, Picture Framing God

    what you are saying is that the bankruptcy system is bankrupt, and the cc lobby is the fault...you are absolutuely right, Paul.
  20. JohnR

    JohnR MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    It is true that people who pay their bills (have a great credit score) tend to be more responsible in general. Insurance is based on risk, so the lower risk individual will get the better rate.

    Doesn't it suck that we with small business have to work hard to get customers and have to treat them like royalty. We literally struggle to make a buck, yet these big companies operate near the edge of being criminals (some are) and treat customers like sh!t.
  21. UzZx32QU

    UzZx32QU Administrator Staff Member

    To get back on track. I was discussing changing terms to unrealistic term just to generate a late fee for the CC company. I checked the post date and I am only given 17 days from when they mail the bill to me not when I receive it to have them receive and post my payment. They say I should mail it a week before the due date. So at best I need to pay their bill within a week of receiving it so it's not late. :soapbox: I don't need this BS in my life. If it lowers my credit score maybe I'll get a few less offers in the mail but if everyone dumps companies that are screwing them then others would think twice before changing their terms.

  22. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Teens are expensive to insure because they have no track record. I have been driving over 1/2 my life. I have plenty of a track record. If I were in the risk assessment business I would consider that record above all other factors. If I were in the insurance business, I would pick any arbitrary measure to charge from that best puts money in my pocket.

    When I opened my business, I put a good deal on CC's. They made the next couple of years pure ####. They are aggressive, snotty, rude, and down right liars. Anybody considering getting in bed with those snakes should be very very careful. Don't get me wrong, they never charged me for anything that I didn't buy or terms I didn't agree to. Still those terms are not in your favor.
  23. kdub

    kdub CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Actually this is not always the case. My husband ordered a handheld GPS unit online with his debit card and was told that the unit was backordered (of course this was only after he paid for it after thinking it was in stock as the website said). It was finally shipped out only to get lost/stolen in transit. We waited and waited and got yanked around for a few weeks. I decided to call the bank to see if there were any consumer protections to using the "VISA" logo'd debit card. She said that there were and that if we didn't receive the product, we had something like 90 days to contest the charges just as if we used a real credit card. That may vary from bank to bank though but I would think that at least with fraud/theft, there would still be protection for the consumer.
  24. Dancinbaer

    Dancinbaer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Would any of you having problems with Credit Card companies care to name them?

    I haven't had any trouble with my two cards but now and then think of changing to one of the lower interest cards that keep coming in the junk mail.

    My business card is WAMU which I pay off every month. The statement always comes weeks ahead of the due date. The last statement came around July 18 and the due date is Aug 11. I always pay online a few days before the due date.

    My personal card is Capital One, other than wishing I could get a lower interest rate, no complaints.
  25. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Funny Denny, WAMU is one of the ones I feel jerked around by. I pay online and set it up to notify me a week before the due date. The notice always says "6-7 days til your payment is due" Even they don't know when it is due I guess. I have gone in to pay on the 5th day of that notice and thought I was covered by choosing the correct option to pay and my payment didn't show up for 2 days and since it was a 6-7 day notice and I paid on the 5th day it must have just been a 6 day notice. Plus, why should it take 2 days to process my payment? It is such a racket. I have had great service from WAMU and they did reverse the late fee but why not be more up front about your due dates?
  26. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    I think that when you do business with them, they are fishing. When you pay the balance off or carry a balance for a very short time, that is the same as taking the bait from them.

    Next month they bait another hook and toss it into the water. They are just waiting for you to get up near the credit limit or pay late. Thats when they set the hook and start reeling in the cash.

    When you run into problems and can only pay the minimum or can't even pay the minimum that's when they have hooked a big one. You get stuffed and put on their wall.

    Snakes...i don't care what brand it is.
  27. David N Waldmann

    David N Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Our Amex statement usually comes about a week before it's due. This month we received it on the 22nd and it's due the 27th. Thankfully, I can get a copy of the statement online, and schedule a payment online - which I do. But I have to have a reminder set up in Outlook or I would not remember to do it. If online was not a option I would not be doing business with Amex, regardless of the 50,000 point bonus they offer for spending lots of money with them.

    Chase Visa is my best card, because they allow us to set up Auto-Pay in Full, which is deducted from our bank account "on" the date it's due. It doesn't usually actually hit our bank account until 2-3 days after the due date, but it always shows the payment credited to our account on the date it was due. I have two Chase cards - one for personal and one for business - and they both post Frequent Flyer miles to the same account, which is very handy.

    My partner uses Capital One for his business Visa, and they are a real pain. Even though I set the account up and he requested me to be added as a "Special Person" (whatever they call someone that has full rights to the account), whenever I try calling them about an issue with the statement or whatever, they won't talk to me.
  28. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Call customer service and ask for a lower rate. If you always pay on time, they will usually lower it. I have an excellent rate with Capital One.
  29. Dancinbaer

    Dancinbaer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I did that awhile back, the best they could do is 14-15%. I should try again with both credit cards.
  30. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Funny Checks

    Watch out for those "convenience checks" some companies send with statements. I used one about 3 years ago and every month there is a finance charge on the statement that they tell me is a result of that check which was for about $600.00. When I asked them about making it go away they said I would have to get the total balance down to zero which seems to be impossible since I've got the majority of my suppliers charging the card when they ship.

    In the 6 years I've had the card, I've paid the balance every month, on time. This charge only averages about $2.00 a month but still..........
  31. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Tell them to close the account and see what happens.
  32. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I've got another card that I never use and have thought about switching all the suppliers to it but haven't for 2 reasons:

    1. I'm lazy.
    2. I'm afraid I will have more problems with the switch. This thread reinforces that. Seems they're all evil and the $2.00/mo. charge is the only problem I've had with this company.

    But you're right, I probably should do something.
  33. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Those convenience checks are not all bad. But, if you use them, you had better follow certain rules.

    First do not use them on an account where you have or plan any other activity.

    Stay away from the zero interest (for a limited period) checks. The 3% up front fee will make the actual interest charge more like 15% when applied over the "limited period".

    The 2.9% or 3.9% for the life of the loan are as good or better than any home equity borrowing even considering the mortgage interest tax deduction. Write your check for the maximum amount offered with a reduction to make sure the first months interest and the fee don't put you over your credit limit. That often limits the impact of the fee on your overall interest cost, i.e. 3% fee with a $150 max is only 1.5% of a $10,000 loan.

    Use a program like Quicken with 15 day payment reminders, so that you don't risk that "universal default" trick. I have found that Chase, Citibank, and Am Ex Optima all send bills in plenty of time to send payments to meet my goal of 10 business days and so that I can monitor their on-line access for confirmation of payment (Optima emails confirmation). I don't use EFTs routinely because I don't want them to have authorization that they could use to drain my account in some future dispute.

    Set a goal to pay off the principal in no less than 3-4 years. You will have low interest charges and flexibility in payments depending how robust or weak your cash flow at any given time.

    These checks are not meant to work the way I describe here - they are meant to trick you into mixing in higher interest charges so they can collect that high interest while applying you payments to the lower interest part of the balance.

    This has worked for me when I have needed extra cash for home improvements and large purchases. It sure beats the confiscatory income tax rates that I have to pay to Uncle Sam and NJ if I take money from my pension assets - over 40% today, more if Obama is elected.
  34. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Well NOW you tell me! Thanks for the info Pat.
  35. pictureframingpro

    pictureframingpro MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I have a Chase Mastercard Business card (even though I am not a business owner) Great card, I have all my utilities at home on this card, and I pay it in full every month. I have a USAA AMEX as a "personal" creditcard, that I do all my online buying, or gas or groceries with. I pay that off in full every month my interest rate on both cards is less that 8 percent.

    I asked for a low fixed rate instead of the variable rate that was offered, and they did it. prime plus 2% or something like that... fixed.
  36. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    People do not buy houses or cars with a credit card, at the interest they charge, you would have to be a babbling idiot to purchase big ticket items with a credit card. If you are making monthly payments on credit cards, you can not be all that bright. Your interest is probably making you pay two to three times, even more is possible, than what you originally bought your gotta have piece of junk for. Making monthly payments on a credit card, by the time it is paid off, it probably will be a piece of junk that was long ago hauled off to the dump.

    This is what blows my mind, people who are paying five hundred to a thousand dollars a month interest on all their credit cards, are actually howling about gasoline going up an extra hundred dollars a month????

    You do not need a credit card to establish credit, if that is the reason you got one,or two, three, or four credit cards, that means you probably lack the brainpower to use them properly. Therefor, your excuse to establish credit has probably backfired and destroyed your credit.

    All you have to do to establish credit, is be able to prove to the lender, you do not need the money. If a huge chunk of your earnings is going toward interest payments, there is no way that you could ever be in a position to entice any lender to help you with a big loan. having a moderate stock portfolio and a savings account with a few thousand in it will help you get a loan much better than a large credit card balance. The problem with that is, the geniuses who have credit cards think a savings account is for geeks and losers, you know, those people who never seem to have a problem with bankers, but drive crappy cars and live in crappy rentals. Thats called living below your means so you can save up and buy a house.

    If you have any credit cards, and you think your intelligence is almost as high as average, you should cut up every card and never use them again. Get them paid off, then start putting those interest payments into a savings account. After you have saved a few thousand, start becoming familiar with the stock market.

  37. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm not all that bright but a credit card for my business is invaluable as it saves a lot of time by not writing checks and they pay me a few hundred dollars a year just for using it.

    Ditto for my personal card.

    Of course you should never carry a balance and pay interest on a card.

    When I lose a few more brain cells I might need to cut them up as you suggest but by then, I may not be smart enough to do it. Therein lies the problem?
  38. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    I'm sorry Doug, that comment was aimed at people who carry a balance, which most seem to do sooner or later. Just about every person I query about carrying a balance on their credit cards insist they have never done it, and they always pay the entire balance every month. Myself, I have two debit cards, one for business and one for personal. The balance gets paid automatically as I use them. No bills, no postage, no sweat.

    The credit card companies do not make all that money by processing peoples purchases and getting the entire amount within 30 days. People who never carry a balance make up an incredibly small portion of the credit card banks customers, it's the rest who they rely on for income.

    I have been in business longer than Master Card or Visa have been around. At first, it was a great way for most people to go, instant credit, it was an amazing concept in the beginning.

    With computer systems giving the card companies instant access to your entire credit history, they have become ruthless and downright brutal to their customers.

    You can have a perfect credit score with them, but if your overall credit score fluctuates downward for any reason, you can see your credit card interest go as high as forty percent, overnight.

    That used to be called usury in most states up until a few years ago, now, for the credit card companies, it's completely legal. If I, on the other hand, loaned you money at forty percent annual rate, I would go to jail as a loan shark under the usury laws.

    I cut up all my cards about five or six years ago, actually I had three of them. I am one of the dumb idiots who carried a balance. At least my balance was well under the national average of around twelve thousand dollars. When I cut up my cards I owed around six thousand dollars to them. I paid the balance in full, I cut up the cards. I wrote my credit card companies to close the accounts.

    Even though business is a lot slower than it was then, I always seem to have more money. I am able to put five hundred a month into my savings.

    Why am I writing all this? Because I think credit cards are much like the state lottery, they prey on the gullible. I honestly think it is time for a backlash against all this greed. So, I promote whenever I can, that people dump their charge cards.

  39. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    I thought I had lost the above post into cyber space, so I wrote a new one. I just erased the new one.

  40. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I agree cc's can be dangerous. One slip, forget to pay, pay one day late, overextend purchases, and the leeches leap on you and you can get into trouble. I guess leeches don't leap but they will certainly suck your blood if given a chance.
  41. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    I guess what frosts me the most is that these card companies target young people. These are the people most likely to carry a balance, and are also most likely to find themselves in a little deeper than they had planed, and therefor find themselves making monthly payments, often times being late on their payments.

    Credit card banks, like Chase, Capital One, City Group, sound like big solid institutions, so these young, financially innocent, people think because they are big, they must also be fair, and a safe place for them to do business. The exact opposite is more the case.

    These companies actively solicit the financially naive, usually younger people. They want them to get in trouble so they can start gouging as much as they can from them. They constantly offer incentives for them to go deeper in debt. They send them letters congratulating them for their sound financial practices, and offering them lower interest rates and free miles on the airlines and such.

    They are predators and they pray on our kids. They coerce them until they are down, then they pounce and kick the heck out of them. Big credit card companies fall into the category of sleazy, carnival barker, low life companies.

    They hide behind a veil of respectability that their founders spent years building, only to have that image destroyed by the con artists who now operate them.

    Do yourself a favor, get rid of your charge cards. You are doing business at the bottom of the barrel.

  42. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The CC companies are in a financial fiasco right now. To many people defaulting because these cards are what they are living on and cant pay but the minimum because of rate jacking. And lets not forget about the fees that we are charged as merchants. The interchange rates are out the roof. If you have that low rate of 1.49%, it doesnt mean much because of these rates. If I take a business to business card, I pay 5%. That is not the bank's rate, but Visa/MC rate. Every merchant pays that.
  43. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Most of what we take in the shop is credit or debit cards. It is getting rarer for cash or checks anymore. Upside is that it saves me a trip to the bank.

    I go over our statement with a fine tooth comb every month and actually record our effective rate - it does change depending on the type of card you have accepted that month. Someone has to pay for the rewards cards and it's not the credit card companies, it's us. But we have NEVER paid 5%. You may want to shop around.

    I was just figuring out last week how much money we had paid merchant services in fees since we opened about 11 years ago. I recommend that you don't do that....it'll make your hair stand on end. (What can I say, I used to be an accountant, I like to play with numbers).
  44. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Believe me, I have shopped around. The various interchange rates apply to all merchants. I took in a large order in April. The people paid half at time of order. Before the order was completed, the statement was cut. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw what I was charged for this order. I called the cc processor asking for an explanation, and was told that it was Visa's interchange rate, and that everyone pays it. I have since confirmed this with sales reps that have come by trying to sell me their processing. Here is the link to Visa's rates http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-usa-july2008-interchange-rates.pdf.
  45. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The link is for interchange rates which are paid by financial institutions. The third sentence said that "merchants do not pay these rates....." (and I just skimmed it but didn't see any 5% rate)

    I'm thinking that the credit card processor is giving you a line to keep your business.....going back to the title of this thread.
  46. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I do agree that cc's are getting out of hand. But how do we avoid them? Do you offer discount when paid with check????? In today's business, most customers will pay with a credit card.
  47. couture's gallery

    couture's gallery PFG, Picture Framing God

    There is a conspiracy going on to get cash out of the system and force everyone and every transaction to be a cc, debit card, etc...even checks as we know them are a target for these financial wizards who are attempting to get a % of every transaction ever done by making a living off of everyone else without contributing to the country in any way...true parasites...and the trend is to do this thru advertising and laws ( read...lobbiest) to make us a cashless society..and one that is easier for the government and thew parasites to know our every purchase and weakness. my 2.5 cents worth.
  48. Richard Darling

    Richard Darling SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  49. palmettoframing

    palmettoframing Grumbler

    My average rate for processing at the store was 1.55% now they have raised that to 2.55%. and .25 per trans and .75 to batch out the sales. Now I no longer pay a $10 statement fee, changed vendors. All this is no problem, what burns my ### are the reward and comerical card surcharges. I had a $40.00 surcharge on a commerical card sale of $1000., in addition to the % fees. Data Frist my new processor, could not Id which charges caused the surcharges. I did not take credit cards for my first 5 years in business, and my well stop taking cards. So some months the credit card fees are ok, but on months with many reward and commerical card charges, the fees average 5%.

    thats my rant
  50. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Some of the corporations I do business with have started using "P" cards (purchase cards) rather than going through the Purchase Order/ Check for payment routine. The surcharges on the P cards along with my base rate total about 5%. When I realized this was happening, I adjusted my pricing to be able to absorb the fees without affecting my bottom line.

    Since switching to Amex for my bill payment I have never been late on a payment. My personal Amex and Business Amex are tied to a single Rewards bucket and I haven't paid for a plane ticket since then either.
    Today is the first of the month. I will go on line and pay off my Amex cards (oh, did I mention that my cash flow has increased greatly since switching to this method of payment).

    Here's the trick. Set up a payment date with your vendor (works for all cards) that is just after the normal cycle closing date. The Amex cards typically close sometime just before the 20th of the month, so I have the vendors pay off my account on the 21st. Those funds will be due to Amex in about 40 days...typically on the first of the month after the next . BUT, as I have learned, they are not late until the 15th, so effectively you have about 60 days use of their money for nothing. The statement I am paying today was dropped on July 17, but the charges on it date back to June 21.

    Credit/Charge cards are just tools. Learn how to use them and they can work to your advantage. If you don't use them properly they can hurt you.

    I understand what you are saying John, but I did buy a car on my Amex...really annoyed the dealership, but, hey, they read the fine print, didn't they? btw, I carry no balances on any cards. If I need to borrow money short term, I have a business line of credit with my bank that is fixed to the prime rate.
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