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Decors Frame of the Month

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I thought I'd put this here and see if anyone noticed. I'm sure all of you who subscribe to Decor have received it by now. I just wanted to comment on the Frame of the Month, a x stitch design. I am familiar with this line of x stitch, and figured my price on a 14 x 18 opening. Using consevation materials, my price was $329.00 without figuring for the angles. The angles would have added another $60-75.00 to the job, plus I charge extra for the cutting of angled glass. I am bothered by the methods used by the framer for this job. An air-powered staple gun surely would have torn the fabric. My questions are, how do your prices compare, and how fo you feel about Decor giving the the honor of being "Frame of the Month" when proper framing methods were not used?
 
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William Ross

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Decor is not a "FRAMING MAGAZINE", they wouldn't know good framing if they ever saw it. Most of the information they present is only to full pages so they can sell advertising, and must be looked at as if presented for a "CRAFT MAGAZINE" , it is not for professional framers and galleries. Most of the articles seem to be written for the ego of the writer and not to give useful information for our profession. When was the last time you said "This is very important information and I'm glade Decor put it in their magazine", I'll bet its been a long time. Any subject they do address is digested that there is no meat left to dig into that its almost a waist of time to read.
The pricing survey is a good example---Does it really help you set your pricing?
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I don't see where Decor is called a "framing magazine", but it is a trade magazine, and it is read by framers and gallery owners. The pricing survey is just that, a survey. Nobody in this business should be foolish enough to set their prices according that survey, since everyones business and circumstances are different.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I agree with all the above. When I read the articles, my first impression is that this is the first job in journalism that the writer has had. My second impression is to see how many names of frame shop owners we can cram into an article, regardless of the accuracy or value of the quote. My third impression is that so many of them are from the same people, as are the frame of the month winners. I think the whole drill is to publish something, like Bill said, to fill out the advertising with the least amount of real effort.

Yet, I read the **** things cover to cover every month
 

MerpsMom

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Wow: I think you guys are a little over-the-top. Were I a new reader of either this forum or Decor, I'd question my judgement: then probably, yours. They may not be all to all, but the baby and the bathwater quote kind of comes to mind.
 

Lance E

Member
My perspective would be that the framer in question simply doesn't know any better. This is common here, a lot of framers are either really good a woodwork, or they are good at the "internal package". It seems rare to find a good balance of both.
Anyhow the staples were put in from the side how could that possibly be viewed as wrong?
 

Susan May

Gone.
Staples are made with sharpened points, and therefore have the ability to cut, or tear the fabric. When you use pins, or lace (sew), you are able to watch where you put the points so you do no harm to the fabric.

It is important to remember that the idea of "proper" framing is to leave the artwork in it's original condition. Can you tell me that any fabric that has been stapled has not been weakened?



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Sue May :)
"You want it when?!?!?"
 
K

Kit aka emrr

Guest
Okay, as long as we're raking this thing over the coals - I thought it was bad design.
Definately a tour-de-force in terms of frame building but I would be very upset to have invested all those hours in a piece of needlework only to have the reaction of anyone who looked at it be "Wow! Great frame!" Kit
 
C

curly

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susan May:
Staples are made with sharpened points, and therefore have the ability to cut, or tear the fabric. When you use pins, or lace (sew), you are able to watch where you put the points so you do no harm to the fabric.
It is important to remember that the idea of "proper" framing is to leave the artwork in it's original condition. Can you tell me that any fabric that has been stapled has not been weakened?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Susan, et al. I think that this controversy over pins vs. staples is taken too far. It's also important to remember that oils/acrylics on canvas are routinely stapled to the stretcher bars and most of the paintings I stretch and frame are worth a heck of alot more than the kit needleworks that people do today. There is the rare piece that is "antique", but what is that 1 in a 1000? (More of them are "vintage" as opposed to "antique" anyway.)
I feel it is more important that the board is acid-free (we use 3 layers of cotton rag board) and that the staples are stainless steel or monel, to eliminate rust AND that they have UV protection. Too bad we don't use better stretcher bars on our canvases and the artists don't use better paints and UV protection.



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curlyframer, CPF
 

Susan May

Gone.
Staples with UV protection? How does that work?

Also, if you look at the canvas on a painting, and compare it to the fabric on a cross stitch, you will notice that the canvas is quite a bit more dense, and can handle more rigorous handling. Aida cloth, and other even-weave fabrics for stitchery, are not designed to hold up to the fabrics being pierced. Canvas is designed to be strong, as it not only gets the staples, but it often gets very vigorous scrubbing on it's surface during the painting process.

I also will disagree with you on the "Cost" of any given stitchery. If you look at it in the simple cost of supplies, then actually equal out to aproximatly the same price.
For example: Let's take a 16X20.

If it can be assumed that you are a person who has been doing this craft awhile, We can than assume that the painter has paints, and brushes. All they need is a few colors to fill out what they are missing, and the canvas. Outlay of money? Perhaps $20-60, depending on what they need to replace. Now, the stitcher, they need the fabric and threads. They may have a few of the colors, but odds are they don't have enough. I have seen the cost of a single stitchery to be around $40-50. HMmmmm... sounds like they are worth the same to me.

Now, how much is your time worth? Mine is very expensive. I can finish a painting in one day, but a 16X20 cross stitch would take the average (addicted) stitcher about three to six months.

I think the stitchery has just gone up in price. In time alone any stitchery is worth far more than most paintings, and should be treated as the artwork they are. Especially if they are done correctly.

Next time you say a piece of work is not worth proper framing, ask the customer what it is worth to them.

Susan May (Stitcher, Painter, and Framer)
 
C

curly

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susan May:
I think the stitchery has just gone up in price. In time alone any stitchery is worth far more than most paintings, and should be treated as the artwork they are. Especially if they are done correctly.
Susan May (Stitcher, Painter, and Framer)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Susan, I'm not going to go over each point with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. But, your final statement above, I'm sorry, I just have to respond. Just try and sell a stitched piece for 5 or 6 thousand or 10 or 20. Maybe a Antique 19th century piece but not your average kit that some hobbyist has taken 6 months to do watching T.V. Which is 99.9% of the stitch work we see today. Get real.
I hope your not offended. I'm just talking to you like a friend when we disagree about something. Hopefully we're doing good here and some newbie will learn something.


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curlyframer, CPF
 

FramerDave

PFG, Picture Framing God
Just try and sell a stitched piece for 5 or 6 thousand or 10 or 20. Maybe a Antique 19th century piece but not your average kit that some hobbyist has taken 6 months to do watching T.V. Which is 99.9% of the stitch work we see today. Get real.


Of course almost nobody could sell a stitched piece for much money at all. But just screw up a customer's piece and see how valuable it is. As for stuff done while watching TV, those 19th century pieces were the equivalent of TV back then. All those old samplers were "just" practice for young girls learning how to stitch. We can't really imagine those little girls sitting around under the watch of their mothers teling them to "be very careful and do neat work, because 200 years later, they will be very valuable." So who's to say those little cross stitches won't be worth just as much 200 years down the road?
Picture it: Boston, 2252 A.D. and the Antiques Roadshow is in town:
"Oh my, this is a lovely piece. This is a cross stitch circa 1998. This thing was very popular hobby back then, and kits were sold in crafts stores by the thousands. We see very few of them today, and so they're very valuable. These were done mostly by housewives as a hobby and were often given as gifts. It's rare to see one is such great condition, since they were usually treated as throwaway art and were almost never framed well. Somone obviously cared a great deal about this one, and paid to have it well framed."
Go to screen: "Thomas Kincaid cross stitch, c.1998, $1000-$1200."
 

Susan May

Gone.
No offence taken.

------------------
Sue May :)
"You want it when?!?!?"
 

JPete

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
My two stitches worth. People do stitch and sell it to others. Custom work just like a frame. Some better than others...so if you haven't tried doing it yourself don't knock it. I've tried it and would rather frame it than make it.

I forgot what the original topic was. Dropped Decor when it became a copy of other mags articles. May have to pick it up again so I can really get into these discussions!

[This message has been edited by JPete (edited May 25, 2001).]
 

johnfdtaff

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
As the new editor of DECOR, I just had to post here. I can take no offense at what DECOR has done in the past, but I do have several points to make. Since framing is as much an art as the art it surrounds, the spectrum of what's the "right" way to do something is very, very broad. Nearly every time we run a framing story, no matter how complex or simple the technique we're illustrating, we always get calls and letters telling us that the framer in question is doing it wrong. That's normal and we expect it.

As to the comment that DECOR is not a framing magazine, I respectfully, strongly, fervently and definitively disagree. Wow, I don't even know how you can say that. DECOR's bread-and-butter is framing. It's what we built the magazine on. Can we do a better job of covering it? Absolutely. Will we do a better job. You betchya. But to say that we're not a framing magazine is just not accurate or fair.

That said, though, I want to hear from you. I posted a long note in the other trade magazine folder that you might want to read. If you've got ideas, comments, suggestions or projects you want DECOR to consider for Frame of the Month, let me know. Call me at 800-867-9285 or e-mail me at jtaff@pfpublish.com. If you don't let us know what's out there, how can we get this stuff into the magazine? I look forward to speaking with you here on the boards and in person! Thanks!
 

Egon's cage

Grumbler
Well, Decor DOES put on Frame-o-rama... But that article I saw talking about how GREAT Roma moulding is <awhile back> almost made me sick... come on, Roma stole EVERYTHING to make their start... I just can't respect that.

[This message has been edited by Egon's cage (edited June 20, 2001).]
 
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