Do I say any thing?

Rosalyn

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Posts
374
Location
Kansas
Last night the school hosted an art show during the first basketball of the season. Between games I went to view the art, of which my son had displays. I noticed the art is matted (teacher got the mats from me)and poorly done . . .

While I NEVER assume to be by any means an expert or even close . . . I know the work shouldn't be hinged (mat to mount) with gray tape . . the art taped to the mat . . . and mounted on pieces of cut up boxes, etc.

One really neat piece had been hinged with the lovely gray tape and obviously the mat and mount were not secured together because the weight of the mat was causing the a nice droop and the gray tape was showing at the top where the mat was hinged to recycled a box piece.

Now, I went on to find my son's pieces. He had done a neat floral piece for his sister who will cherish it forever . . . and I crinched when I saw it too was mounted on a recycled box . . . and I didn't even want to look for the gray tape. . . his other pieces was just taped to the mat -- no mount.

The mats had much to be desired also -- ragged cuts - HUGE over cuts . . . She had told me in the past that she has the kids cut their own mats thought I've never seen what kind of mat cutter she has.

The art teacher is very nice and I supply her with mats and scraps. I would never hurt her feelings. I realize her budget is gone already since she got the same amount of money as last year but saw a huge increase in class size. So I know buying archival all around isn't even to be considered but . . .

I know I'll be sick if I can't save the piece of my son's for my daughter. I know there has to be other's like me too.

Should I say anything . . .? I'm not sure how to be really, really tactful, not condenscending. . .
any ideas would be appreciated. I'd like to offer to help . . .
 
Rosalyn,

It would surprise me if that art teacher didn't already know that using recycled cardboard wasn't the correct thing to do. But she also knows that her budget won't support buying even the cheapest foamboard either so why don't you offer to "donate" a case of regular Bainbridge foamboard to her art program? It costs a little over a buck a board in 32x40 by the case and I'll bet that she would sincerely appreciate the help.

Most of the art that is generated in these primary art classes is not of an archival quality to begin with and I would think that regular foamboard would be sufficient for most of their projects. If you are concerned about the longevity of your children's artwork mounted on this board, you could change the mounting to a more stable foamboard like ArtCare after he brings it home from school.

As an aside, it is really sad that the education system in this country chooses to push the arts into the basement in favor of many of the sports programs and special events that satisfy the needs of the parents rather than the children. These teachers have to feel really frustrated having to deal with little or no supplies budget each year after they spent so much time studying for this career and trying to instill in their students an interest in the arts.

It is like trying to produce a movie with no film allowance or scripts to give to the stars who are the main attraction of the film.

Framerguy
 
Donating the foam core is an excellent idea since I have a bunch I need to get rid of because I want to buy the better quality. Okay ... so that's a start.

I understand about art getting shunned for sports - same as music (I'm a musician also). I was an accompanist for over 20 years and the school board insisted we keep concerts to a minimum time. Folks will watch hours upon hours of any kind of ball but sit for an hour concert - no way! :mad:

I'd like to help in any way I can but I need to be careful of my budget also . . .

I hope to find a middle ground and yet show the students how to cut mats, mount them . . etc.

Yes, teacher knows about the recycled box but gray tape?!?!
 
Quote:

I hope to find a middle ground and yet show the students how to cut mats, mount them . . etc.

Why not offer to put on a "workshop" for the students each Fall to coincide with the teacher's introduction to matting. Students always are interested in any visitors to their classes who bring with them useful information and also some samples for them to inspect.

I had offered to do exactly this same thing with the art programs up North before I moved but the teacher was an educational burnout and didn't really care about his program anymore. He was simply tired of hitting the same old brick wall each school year with his limited budget and lack of support from the school administration.

I really believe that this is a prime contributor to the state of our profession in general. If you teach a few generations of students about the arts in a half hearted manner, you will eventually turn out a society of half hearted adults who don't really care or understand what proper matting and framing is all about. They will fall prey to the BB syndrome and Walmart-itis and we will be the ones to suffer financially.

And they will be the ones to suffer culturally.

Framerguy
 
What cost-effective semi-safe alternative can I offer in place of the dreaded gray tape?
 
By "gray" tape, do you mean Duct tape?? Almost any tape (with the exception of masking tape) would probably be better to some small degree than Duct tape!!

Framer's tape doesn't cost very much and it should suffice for hinging children's artwork. I would emphasize to the students that this is only used for hinging basic levels of art. And you (or the teacher) could introduce them to proper methods and materials to correctly hinge artwork. Even if it is only a "show and tell" type of presentation, it would give the students some insight to doing the mounting in a proper fashion.

Framerguy
 
Even masking tape is better than the gray tape. Linnen tape would be much better and isn't all that expensive.
 
The frame shop I used to manage had a week set aside when we opened an hour early each day and had students from one of the local schools come in and pick out mat scraps for their art pieces. We would cut the mats and mount their art and then deliver them to the school. The students loved it and we would show them how we cut mats and explain some mounting and framing basics. Not only did it help the art budget for the school, we always had some parents who would bring in their child's matted art for framing.

It was not only a great way to get rid of scrap mat, but we also had a heck of alot of fun!

Angela
 
why don't you offer to "donate" a case of regular Bainbridge foamboard to her art program? It costs a little over a buck a board in 32x40 by the case
I need to switch vendors. Could you please post yours? ;)

Otherwise, I agree.
 
Perhaps donating some correct tape might be an enlightening experience for all involved.
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />why don't you offer to "donate" a case of regular Bainbridge foamboard to her art program? It costs a little over a buck a board in 32x40 by the case
I need to switch vendors. Could you please post yours? ;)

Otherwise, I agree.
</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, Ron, must have been late night math! I bought a case of the stuff last week for a Main Street project and paid just under $50 for it. For some unrelated reason, I had "50" sheets in my mind and posted as such for the cost of that case.

Sorry for the confusion.

FGII
 
I don't understand why we inflame this discussion with stuff like "grey tape". If there was any truth to the art teacher using Duct Tape (much more expensive than readily availble masking or scotch tape)you certainly have more than a responsibility to correct this teacher.

We all need to do what we can for our schools. We all need to donate time and energy as well as the tangible things. It's true for the sports programs as well as the Latin Club, the Science Club and the Art Club (if there is one). It's true when I was in school and it's more true today.

To criticze "grey tape" and overcuts might make you feel good, but it doesn't feed the bulldog. Get off your behind and do something, anything to help. When you hide behind "budgets" as an excuse to not get involved, you are worse than those you criticize. At least, they are trying. You have knowledge and ability they don't. An hour or two a week might be a tremendous benefit.

I have been involved in youth activities for too many years to count. You could always count on one thing: There was always someone that wanted to tell you what you were doing wrong. Yet, they never seemed to do anything about it. Help you run the program? The only thing they seemed to know how to run was their mouth's.

You want to do something positive? Get off your behind, roll up your sleeves and do something, anything. You can make a difference. Time and skill doen't cost you a dime to donate-the rewards are meaningful. Who doesn't have an hour a week to offer? Most of us spend much more than that here on the Grumble
 
Rosalyn

I am going one step farther. My husband and I and a few other businesses in town are getting together and sponsoring an art show, on a slightly grander scale then the basket ball show you mentioned. All moneys raised will go to the art department. We have a local caterer doing refreshments, a printing company will be making note cards of the children's are for sale, the community center has donated space. The local paper is running a article and advertising for us.

We are hoping that this can become an annual event as a good number of jobs that these children can get in the future can be based on a good working knowledge of art, ad people graphic designers, architect, and the list goes on.

This will also work out as a advertising boost for us. It is a win win situation for everybody.

hope this helps

Jill Hennes
Omro Gallery
 
Great suggestion, Jill. It is a real win-win deal. This is what personal involvemnet is all about. How easy it would have been for Jill to say she didn't have the time or budget. Bravo for her. She will definitely make a difference.

Now, if the rest of us can do something...
 
Bob,

I agree that there is always something that can be done to make improvements in our education. And I think that Rosalyn may have just been introduced to this side of the art program by the tone of her remarks. I saw a personal concern for her son's artwork and that may have been the motivating factor to her post. But, now she has some ideas and some opinions from those of us who have been exposed to these problems in the past and have made some kind of attempt to resolve some of those problems.

Attitudes vary from one part of the country to another and priorities are different in each school district. I have lived the last 30 years in the Midwest and have been "conditioned" to the educational direction in that part of the country. I have done student art shows in my gallery on 5 different occasions and promoted them as clearly and completely as any show I have held and the turnout of people was minimal. The students' parents and friends showed up but the interest just wasn't there in the general public on average. Part of the reason, I suspect, is the background of the average resident. They hadn't had the background offered to them when THEY were going through school and now they don't see a good reason to take time out of their routines to attend an art show of "little kids'" art. That just happens to be how they were raised.

Here in FWB the attitudes are quite different. They have the NW Florida Ballet, many different kinds of art retail areas, a new library, (when's the last time you heard of a small town building a NEW library?), a new Science Center, more special art and art related special events throughout the year than I have seen in my old area in the last 5 years!

My point is, I guess, that you sounded like you were scolding her for growing roots through her butt to whatever seating arrangement she had at hand when there was so much to be done. I am going to take a guess that Phoenix has had a cold spell over night and the bedroom floor was really cold when you crawled out of bed this morning. (That would make ANY man a bit grumpy in the morning!!) ;)

Let's give the gal a chance to walk the walk and see what happens with her situation. I fully expect that Rosalyn will keep us informed on any progress she has made throughout the school year.

Now you can take out all that "cold floor" aggression on this old fart if you haven't had your first cup of Joe yet! :D

I am working on a new layer of 'gator skin since I moved down here so I need to test it out. Fire away, my friend.


Framerguy
 
First off - Good afternoon Bob,

I feel I must defend myself and my intentions since I feel you have accused me of whining and not wanting to do anything. My intentions to get involved are not only because of my son's work as I've seen the duct tape, etc. before (and yes it was duct tape). I've only been in 'business', framing for two years. The rest of the time I've worked and volunteered at the school.

If you re-read my post you'll see I want to do something.

In the past 30 years I've donated more time/effort/knowledge/funds to my local school than I could ever begin to chart. And I wouldn't want to. That's not why I do the things I do. i.e. countless hours repairing the stage curtains, painting back drops, sewing costumes, teaching (volunteer), encouraging, nurtouring, doesn't even tip the ice burg.

I'm not bragging on myself. No, I just wanted you to understand I know completely about working my butt off (nope, no roots there) for a good cause with only thanks in return.

What I asked for from fellow grumblers was guidance as how to approach the teacher and not offend her, the last thing I would ever want to do to someone who's done me no harm.

To those who offered your assistance. A warm thank you. I appreciate your efforts very much.
 
Preparing art for my highschool's annual art show meant cutting a window in x-board (grey chip board with one white surface) with a straight edge and utility knife. Art was taped to the mat from behind with masking tape. The mat was stapled to the display walls right through the face. Then the sticker with the title, artist's name and grade was slapped on it.

When I was in college majoring in art there was not one minute of that education devoted to framing or any sort of presentation. It isn't a safe assumption that the art teacher knows any better than what she did in high school or college, herself.

Rosalyn, if I were the teacher and you approached me, particularly if you were offering a solution and materials, I would be grateful. You aren't going in telling her how to teach art.
 
Who doesn't have an hour a week to offer? Most of us spend much more than that here on the Grumble
Hey! Watch it, Bob! :D

(For what it's worth, I just returned from spending five hours with a bunch of high school students who were having a bake sale in support of Adopt-A-Family. They'll be buying food and gifts for a family who wouldn't otherwise have a Christmas. Man, I LOVE these kids! Now I have to count the money, so don't distract me, or I'll have to start over.)
 
Well said Framerguy!
We are all learning and every area is different depending on economics and demographics.

Elaine
 
Rosalyn

Could you offer to come in one afternoon(or morning) and demonstrate framing and matting?
I have had great responses to such offers from all venues. The teacher gets a free guest speaker and you get 30 or so well educated future customers. Depending on liability perhaps a Field trip to your gallery would work. Presented as a free service to her department she should feel privileged not offended. You would not even need to mention the errors in the presentations she had done. Simply the "art" and reasons we do what we do for preservation.

Jill Hennes
Omro Gallery
 
Jill - that's exactly what I am planning. I can't invite them to my shop because it's a temporary shop in a cramped basement room while waiting for my new shop to be built. I think following the show and tell I'll leave supplies for hinging and such. I'm still gathering thoughts on it all. But it's certainly something I want to do before they go to the judged art shows this spring.

Now the after-school program director in the middle school has asked me to do a show and tell on photography and matting/framing. More educated artists!

One other question I have though -- what 'economical' way can the mats and mount boards be closed up. The teacher certainly can't spring for ATG tape and gun and I don't feel like I can donate one with supplies. I think it needs to be undo-able as there is always the possiblity it because mom or someone wants to remat and frame it permanently.
 
Like Rosalyn I, too have donated my time to the nth degree in any manner imaginable for the schools. Notice I said for the schools and not just for my kids school or classes. Education as a whole will be the determining factor of this countries future successes and failures. Everyone should take it upon themselves to help out however they can.

I purchased a new mat cutter so I donated my old C&H, a box of blades, mat board and foam core to the HS art department. I'm available if they need any help with anything and they know to call me. I just wonder what (if anything) other parents and community members are doing because I don't see them around much when I'm at the schools for any number of reasons.

The "me" generation needs to be the "we" generation!

Cyndi

P.S. - The use of Duct tape could have been because that is what the janitors happened to have had on hand.
 
Rosalyn
Check at your local craft or scrap booking store they have acid free double stick tape quite reasonable now. I find a lot of fun "toys" in the scrape booking departments and it is all "acid free"

Jill Hennes
Omro Gallery

PS I can't take the credit for the child's art showing I got the idea from a Vivian Kistler seminar.
 
Bob has offered a one night seminar to the art classes at the local university on mat cutting and proper mounting. He has asked vendors that we support for samples - they have been more than generous. The college students always leave with a wealth of information and a goodie bad with lots of great products. He encourages them to treat their artwork as if they are the next Picasso - and who knows, maybe they are.
 
Another alternative you might check with is any of your local suppliers. Granted some may laugh in your face but I have a couple that will donate some supplies for causes like this. One local school that I work with, I sell her the acid-free matboard at my cost plus I go through all my scrap and if there are any of the colors that she wants I throw those in and cut everything to size at no charge. The first year I showed her how to cut the windows and now she does that. Then I get corner mounts and tape donated by my local sales rep and everyone is happy.

Just another thought,
Roxanne

Langley House Gallery
 
Donations - wow. That's hard for me to ask.

ATG tape without the gun - now that's not a bad idea either! I was concerned about the gun getting ruined from rough treatment. I just keep seeing it crash to the floor ... You know how teenagers can be sometimes. Teenagers - I love 'em. They are so open, so fun, so NEAT, and always much more perceptive than ever given credit for (I could go on all day about the good quailities of teenagers)!

I have been given a wealth of information and ideas.

Thank you to all you kind and generous grumblers out there. I'm almost armed and ready . . .
 
Originally posted by Rosalyn:
ATG tape without the gun - now that's not a bad idea either! I was concerned about the gun getting ruined from rough treatment. I just keep seeing it crash to the floor ... You know how teenagers can be sometimes. . . .
Teenagers? .................... TEENAGERS?????

I bought a new ATG gun in Atlanta this fall and the first thing I did after loading it with a roll of ATG tape was to knock it off the worktable onto the floor!!! I broke both, not just one, but BOTH the little clear plastic hinges that hold the cover on the gun!

No, it doesn't take teenagers to screw up a new ATG gun. A doppus framer can do a good job with no teenage help whatsoever. :eek:

Framerguy
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
I broke both, not just one, but BOTH the little clear plastic hinges that hold the cover on the gun!
Framerguy
I've had an ATG gun for 16 years now and it's still going strong. Of course I've replaced about every part in it at least once. A lot of people don't know that you can order replacement parts from 3M, even hinges.

Frank
 
Thanks for the information, Frank. I guess a guy could go directly to 3M's website and find an online order area for small parts like this..

This is one of the newer guns (big yeller) and I honestly never got to lay down 1" of ATG before I elbowed it off the table!

No fault of 3M's by any measn, just a bumbling framer not watching what he was doing.

FGII
 
Offer to help. It would provide you with a method means of providing correct matting, mounting and display information.

Jack Cee
 
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