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Praise EXTRA! EXTRA! Decor Atlanta is coming back!

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Pat Kotnour, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Pat, did you already have your plane tickets? I'm curious for those who made solid plans what they're doing.

    I was already discussing things to do in Atlanta with my wife, but from the two times before waiting to buy plane tickets in case of another cancelation.
  2. Pat Kotnour

    Pat Kotnour SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    No, I don't ever make plane reservations until 60 days before the show. This one I would have waited to buy only 30 days out. When they weren't billing us or putting up classes or information I saw the writing on the wall. The deposit on my booth is going to be paid back if I want it, or it can go on to a booth in NY. Not sure I will go there yet, but never say never. Time will tell.

    The money that was going to Decor is now going to Framefest. It's a done deal and I will be there. Hope all of you who were planning on Atlanta will go there too.
  3. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    We decided to do FrameFest, so we are just out the $400 rebooking fee. We had paid the full booth fee for Atlanta but they are promising to give it back. Thankfully I put it on a CC so I imagine I'll be able to get most of it back even if they don't follow through (the deposit was paid before the open dispute time).
  4. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    David, I've found that the CC dispute time is flexible. Like when I bought tickets to a concert, and the venue didn't know how to handle traffic and I was outside in a line of cars trying to get into the parking lot from 6:30pm to 10pm. Even though we got in for the last couple of songs, I contacted Amex and told them that tickets were put on sale so far in advance that it was well before their dispute time frame, and they understood and waived the time frame. Anyway, with that pressure I got a refund from the venue as well as a separate refund from ticketmaster for the fees. I would have to believe the Expo would honor a refund when they are the ones which cancel, but a CC should still protect you anyway.
    FramerInTraining likes this.
  5. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Hopefully they will just pay it back. We paid the initial deposit back in May of 2014. That was for Decor NY 2015, but because of some health issues they allowed us to move our deposit to the Atlanta show. So we are well over a year out for that part...
  6. Rob Markoff

    Rob Markoff PFG, Picture Framing God

    "How do you know you are about to be screwed? Your customer says, "Can you JUST" :) Jay Goltz

    Seems to me something like this happened to others (me included) the last time DECOR tried to stage an Atlanta show :(
  7. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    As a life-long reader of Decor magazine (my father had a tall stack of them next to the break-room chair) it's departure from the mailbox, and return years later in the back of another magazine has unfortunately lowered the recognition of the name. I don't think branding using "Decor Expo" has the same cache it once did. Perhaps a new name for a new event would make more sense. With so many cancelations of the event I think its just going to get harder and harder for this event title to attract vendors. A fresh start might be best.
  8. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Chris - I agree. I feel they had an uphill battle this last round by using the Decor name. I'm not surprised it failed, but I am sad. I don't know if it's a sign of the times that there isn't room for two big shows any more, or it just wasn't promoted right.

    Who knows? Maybe FrameFest will turn into the East Coast Event.
  9. Pat Kotnour

    Pat Kotnour SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I would like to see Hobby Pub. do a ECAF show in a different city each time every 2-3 years. From what I was told there were already 400 attendees signed up for the Decor show and from what my accounts have indicated, there are a huge number of shops out east who haven't been to a show since Decor's last show.

    David, you hit the nail on the head......it wasn't promoted right. I can totally understand why it didn't make it. For months I have been asking them why there wasn't any hype. I asked them for some kind of a flyer to add to my shipments and never received a thing. The shops were ready for an east coast show, but when Decor didn't come forward with any information about vendors, classes, or show details, it was obvious that the show was doomed. The industry can support 2 shows if it is done right and I think Hobby Pub is the one to make it happen. Now that they have a vested interest in PPFA it's a perfect time to get the ball rolling.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  10. ArmyFramer

    ArmyFramer MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    We have not been to a show since the last Atlanta show. While I would love to attend the Vegas show, it is just at the wrong time for us personally. We are in full hockey mode with my daughter and that is a busy time of the year for us in the shop.

    We plan on attending FrameFest this year, as long as we can swing it around her practice schedule in Tampa that weekend, maybe they'll move the practices to Kissimmee.
    Mike Labbe likes this.
  11. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Pat, don't you mean Monarch Expositions who is the publisher of Picture Framing Magazine and principles of the WCAF?

    I too would like to see a different venue for the WCAF Expo. It would be nice if it were more centralized in the US so that it would be equally expensive for the east coast as the west coast to get to - Kansas City or St. Louis comes to mind. I do know that for sure I will NOT be going to a NYC for a show no matter who puts it on - for me the cost wouldn't be economically feasible and I am not a lover of NYC.
  12. Rob Markoff

    Rob Markoff PFG, Picture Framing God

    Joe- Monarch Expositions is not the publisher of PFM, Hobby Publications, Inc is.

    I know it is confusing because some of the players are the same.

    If I understand it correctly, Monarch Expositions is a separate LLC that is owned by Bruce Gherman and Debbie Salmon independently and is established as a stand alone entity that has purchased PPFA.

    Hobby Publications is owned by the Gherman family and PFM is one of their publications (also Design NJ, Hobby Merchandiser). Another division publishes books such as the one written by my wife, Barbara.

    The National Conference and the WCAF Expo are run by Hobby Publications, Inc.
  13. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The last show I was at was 2013's Art Expo if I recall, but my shop has a lot of fine artwork displayed and selling. The last Decor show I went to was either Baltimore, or Atlanta - whichever was last.

    I think they either need to find a way to compel people to WANT to go to NY and re-join it heavily with Art Expo OR find another location that people actually want to go. For some framers, trade shows are their vacation too. If you put the show in a place they've wanted to visit, then half the battle is won. I don't think Atlanta is such a location. And Baltimore certainly isn't that location, IMHO. Neither location I have said to myself "I want to go there!".

    I believe the three most important things they need to consider for a show is:
    -Location Interest
    -Convenience of travel for an East Coast / National / International show
    -Expo hall cost (though everything is less expensive than NY)

    I've been saying for years that a show in a place like Washington D.C. proper is:

    A) A very compelling location (museums, food, night-life, history, the capitol, white house, and so on)
    B) Convenient from both the north and south, perfectly in the middle of both; and has several airports for national and international travelers.
    C) Would likely be more reasonable expense than NY for a show, for both hotel rooms and expo hall.

    ...its easy for me to say, as I'm about 2 hours away from DC, but I can't think of a location more interesting place on the East Coast (aside from NY). I'm from NY, and the big city doesn't intimidate me, and I drive fine in there but I know others may feel differently about NY that's fair enough.

    On the 3rd of July I stayed at a good downtown hotel near the convention center for $90. So the pricing is probably reasonable for the convention hall if I had to make a guess.
  14. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Well Rob, you better explain that to the PPFA who must have misquoted it too - see the Framers Corner thread "PMA transfers ownership of PPFA to Monarch Expositions...oh yea and PMA must also have misquoted - this is a direct quote on the web from PMA - http://www.ppfacorner.com/showthread.php/3463-PMA-transfers-ownership-of-PPFA-to-Monarch-Expositions : "This week, PMA has achieved another exciting goal — transferring ownership of the Professional Picture Framers Association (PPFA), which has been a PMA organization for about 15 years, to Monarch Expositions, effective immediately. Monarch Expositions is owned by Deborah Salmon and Bruce Gherman, principals of the West Coast Art & Frame Expo and publishers of Picture Framing Magazine." Rob, I am really glad you straightened me out...I'm sure the PPFA and PMA would appreciate it if you would help them understand too.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  15. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Joe - I think you need to read again what you wrote, as it is exactly what Rob wrote. I think you are confusing Individuals with Companies. Just because one or more individuals own part or all of various entities does not create any direct link between entities, other than being what is called "closely held" which may become a factor with regards to finance or tax situations.

    Maybe my additional text in red will provide some clarity:
    You may own a house and a car. That doesn't make the house the owner of the car, even though the car may park in the garage of the house.
  16. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Nope Dave - I don't know what you are saying. I quoted what the PPFA had in the Framers Corner and what PMA had on the web about turning over the PPFA to Monarch Expositions - read post #214 and open the links and you will see what I am saying is true. Both places state exactly what I said " Monarch Expositions is the principals of the West Coast Art & Frame Expo and publishers of Picture Framing Magazine". Check it out- that isn't what Rob said. The confusing part is what PPFA & PMA are saying - truthfully I never knew who was the principle of the WCAF Expo and really didn't and don't care. I always thought that Hobby Publications were the publishers of PFM and was surprised that both PPFA and PMA stated differently. So if you and Rob want to correct someone correct PPFA & PMA.
  17. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    Deb and Bruce own Monarch Expositions which now owns PPFA.
    Deb and Bruce, and others own Hobby Publications which owns and operates PFM and WCAF.

    That's what PMA tried to say even if they weren't particularly clear.

    Monarch Expositions is a separate entity owned by the same people who also are (some of the) "principals of the West Coast Art & Frame Expo and publishers of Picture Framing Magazine."
    susang and Mike Labbe like this.
  18. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Cliff - thank you. It is/was very confusing and really it doesn't mean anything one way or the other. All my point was is that PMA and PPFA stated what I said and then I got corrected for it - Oh well...I just shut up and go back to my corner.
  19. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    "Monarch Expositions is owned by Deborah Salmon and Bruce Gherman, principals of the West Coast Art & Frame Expo and publishers of Picture Framing Magazine."

    Joe, I do see the misunderstanding as it is not clearly worded. Monarch is owned by Deb and Bruce. They are the principals, not Monarch, of the WCAF and they (referring back to Deb and Bruce) publish PFM.

    My husband and I own several businesses. We are the owners, but the businesses themselves have nothing to do with each other.
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