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Float mount help quickly please

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by MurrayBoy, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    I have an acrylic on paper that is getting float mounted to a matboard. It's extremely heavy and the slit/"S" hinges are failing. I literally have a dozen hinges and it won't hold. Any ideas? It's due tomorrow (rush) Thanks!
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  2. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Hi, MurrayBoy. What size is it? Are you able to post a photo? It might also help to know what hinging materials you're using and what substrate(s) you're attaching it to.
  3. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    It is 24x30. Using gummed hinging tape by lineco. It's mounted on a rag mat with slits. I will also say, it's very wavy! Sorry I cant grab a picture right now. Thanks for the help!
  4. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Can you platform mount it and use one long hinging strip? Are you using a tape you have to moisten or the self adhesive linen tape? If the self adhesive linen tape be sure to burnish very thoroughly. Neither is the best solution for hinging, but if that's all you've got then you'll have to make do.
    FM Framer likes this.
  5. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    I have both. I started with the self adhesive, then the kind you moisten. I am going to try platform mount it now and hope all is well. I can't use one gig piece because the waves in the art are .75" high in places!
  6. tedh

    tedh PFG, Picture Framing God

    That Lineco paper hinging tape you're using has bad adhesive. It was discussed here maybe 2 years ago. Use whatever else you have on hand.
  7. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Rather than using slits in the back board you may find it easier to cut a window in the board, maybe
    an inch smaller all round than the art. This way you can attach the hinges to the art and fold them over
    the dropout. When the hinges are dry fix the dropout back in the hole it came from and tape it on the back.

    I've found some of the water-activated hinging tapes are a bit unpredictable. I such a case as this you can't
    beat mixing your own. With art on heavyweight paper use the heaviest hinging paper you can find. Done right
    it will be more than strong enough.
    shayla likes this.

    MATTHEW HALE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    How are the hinges failing? Are they releasing from the art or from the substrate? Do you know what kind of paper the art is on? Often art papers have a sizing on them that makes attaching hinges troublesome. I had the same issue with some heavy weight watercolor paper a while back. Even good starch paste wouldn't hold. I ended up scuffing the back of the paper with some fine sandpaper to remove the sizing and then the adhesive bonded nicely.
    prospero and shayla like this.
  9. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    Thanks everyone. It is failing from the watercolor paper side not the mounting on the substrate. I finally have done a pedestal mount. I think it will hold, but stilll concerned. The artist has used heavy acrylic on water color paper. So their are only a few places the paper is flat enough to even hinge. I'm starting to think it is too heavy for a float hinge. I've never really run into this problem before and have never had a hinged piece fail. Its also a problem because its going into a museum for a exhibit until October and if it fails......uggg I feel like the entire world will see!
  10. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    I once framed a large original on paper by Dale Chihuly, which had been sent to the customer with round magnets glued in several places on the back. We didn't trust them, so mounted it differently, but it makes me wonder if some artists are doing that. Was at a workshop a couple of years ago where Paul McFarland suggested hanging heavy cast paper art with Dual Lock. I doubt that either of these are conservation treatments (nor did he claim that the latter was), and I also wonder whether 1) magnetic attachments would result in the same kind of paper warpage as too-tight hinges and 2) how long the adhesive for Dual Lock lasts before it gives away or darkens through to the front. Don't know the answers to either of these, but have noticed their use.
  11. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Oh, wait. A Platform Mount requires covering the edges. Do you mean to hinge it to a slightly-undersized backing board, and then attach that to the background? That would be a good idea.

    MurrayBoy, are your gummed linen hinges failing on the art paper? If so, I suggest using a bit more moisture, then allowing the adhesive to rest for half-a-minute-or-so before applying it to the paper. Personally, I would be using methyl cellulose paste or freshly-cooked starch paste for this, and hand-torn Japanese paper hinges.
    Joe B likes this.
  12. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    HMM..... I always thought a platform mount was when you cut a smaller piece of backimg board and then attach it to the background? What is that called then? I must of got that confused. So the customer came to pick up the piece, and was happy. I did talk to her about hinge failure and if it did happen I would be happy to fix it asap. I hate sending something out I'm not 100% confident about. It feels like it will be ok, but of course lots of people will be handling it before it gets hung.I am going to be switching over japanese hinging tape from now on. Have you ever had a week where everything just didnt work out? Glad its Friday and thanks for everyones help! My confidence has gotten shaken as a new business owner this week for sure.
    Dirk and Jim Miller like this.

    MATTHEW HALE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I call that a pedestal mount.
    MurrayBoy likes this.
  14. MurrayBoy

    MurrayBoy Grumbler

    That's what I mean! I was pretty close, they both start with P lol. Thanks for your help.
  15. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Sometimes there are several names for certain mounts and that can be confusing, but I agree with Matthew Hale about the Pedestal Mount. Anyway, we can never have too many mounting techniques, eh?

    In case you are interested, the Platform Mount is described in this thread, and you can find more information by searching the Grumble archives. If you have questions, just let me know.
  16. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I've heard Platform Mount called Sink Mount and in fact I called it a Sink Mount for the 1st few years I was in business. I heard the correct term at a class being taught at the WCAF - thank goodness for the WCAF and the great instructors there. Like Jim said
    There are times I feel like I was born confused:rolleyes::rolleyes:
  17. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    But it really is not the same, in my opinion.

    A Sink Mount is usually made for a thick item (a book, for example), closed from the front, and side-support strips are glued around the item to the backing board in layers. The frame-sized backing board supports everything and the window mat holds the item in place. There is no item-sized 'platform' in the assembly. The framing package for a sink mount may be rather thick.

    A Platform Mount is always made for a thin paper item (a document or photo, for example), closed from the back, and the platform mat is glued securely to the back of the window mat. It is made by cutting an opening in a matboard, not by cutting and gluing side-support strips. The platform mat's fallout is the backing board; it is item-sized and supports only the item. The framing package for a Platform Mount can be as thin as three mat layers.

    That said, perhaps you can assemble a Sink Mount backwards, like a Platform Mount, but it is more difficult. That is, cut the sink-spacer layers from solid sheets (not assembled from strips), glue them onto the mat, and then add the backing board to complete the package. But there's still no 'platform'.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    RoboFramer likes this.
  18. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Jim, that was just about word for word how it was explained at the WCAF. I use Sink Mounts for magazines, full newspapers, thick record albums jackets, and, like you said, books. I do a lot of platform mounts for valuable art, old photos, collector posters, and some prints that have hardly any borders to properly attach. You are right, we cannot have to many mounting techniques. Joe
    Jim Miller likes this.
  19. Dirk

    Dirk CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Just be aware that there's a results difference between using the Hayaku pre-prepared tape and making mulberry hinges with starch yourself. (This is Shayla talking....Hubby's trying to fix my computer, so I'm on his and forgot to sign in as me). I first tried Hayaku and really didn't like the results, so bit the bullet and learned to hinge with homemade rice starch. It worked so much better that I haven't looked back. I bought a bottle of methyl-cellulose starch a year ago but have been chicken to try it. It does seem like a good idea though, since bugs might not think of it as a yummy snack treat. This thread has me thinking I should practice. Glad your customer was happy.
    MurrayBoy likes this.
  20. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    I don't, things like that are "buried" by a sink mount, the third dimension is lost.

    Jim Miller likes this.
  21. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Totally agree and I do surface mount this items whenever possible, I too like the look of the surface mount versus the sink mount. Some people don't like the "third dimension" look and since they are the ones that have to look at it day in and day out and because they are paying the bill, I give them what they ask for. Thank goodness that we all don't have the exact same taste because this would really be a boring world if we did:)
  22. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Mostly, I would use Clear Film Book Mounts for those, which is a surface-mounting technique that shows all sides (except the one against the backing, of course).
    Joe B likes this.
  23. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    You mean you didn't dig your own paddy? Kids these days...
    skye likes this.
  24. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    What does this mean? :)
  25. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ahem. No "we" in this post....

    I clearly said "your", not "our"!!

    But in case you inadvertently deleted a letter AND don't know what I'm talking about, if you want to go native you have to grow your own (rice) if you want to make authentic rice starch paste.

    OK, back to your regularly scheduled cooking show.
    tedh likes this.
  26. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Ha! Thanks for the clarification. I forgot about rice paddies and knew you weren't casting aspersions upon my dear Irish grampies, so was at a loss.
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