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Framing between 2 glasses

Umi

Grumbler
Please help! How can I frame an art between two glasses? I have never done this before and I don't even know what materials to use? If you have a pictures or videos you can share I would greatly appreciate that! Thank you in advance.
 
888

echavez123

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Can you be more specific? What type of art - photo, canvas, 3d ? How big are the glasses? Fragile, heavy duty? What is the size of the art?
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Hi, Umi. Are you thinking of floating the paper between two pieces of glazing, where it's pinned between them with empty space out around, or with back-to-back window mats, with the art inside the mat windows? Are they wanting it to look exactly the same from both sides, or just to look 'floaty' from the front? One helpful thing to know is that paper art is best kept away from the glazing. A zillion things (art, leaves, butterflies, etc...) are being framed pressed between glass, but it can cause eventual damage. If you do plan to float it with no mat, you might think about float hinging it to a hidden backing, which is then attached to the back piece of glazing. The front piece of glazing could be held away from the art by spacers.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Are you referring to a "glass sandwich"? If you frame a charcoal artwork in direct contact with glazing - either glass or acrylic - the image probably would be damaged over time, even if it has been heavily sprayed with a fixative.

Spraying fixative on friable media, such as charcoal, pencil, or pastel for example, is something like spraying varnish on a pile of powder. The thin crust of varnish would hold the top layer of powder particles for a while, but the crust would break down, due to abrasion from the harder surface of glazing. The media would shift and adhere to the glazing, making the image increasingly blurry over time.
 

Umi

Grumbler
Thank you for the explanation. I did explain that to the client but it seem to be not an issue. All they want is to have their art is see-through. They want to be able to see the wall from the sides of art. Let's say I want to make it like a sandwich what would I put behind the second glass? Or is there another option except for sandwich?
 

Umi

Grumbler
Hi, Umi. Are you thinking of floating the paper between two pieces of glazing, where it's pinned between them with empty space out around, or with back-to-back window mats, with the art inside the mat windows? Are they wanting it to look exactly the same from both sides, or just to look 'floaty' from the front? One helpful thing to know is that paper art is best kept away from the glazing. A zillion things (art, leaves, butterflies, etc...) are being framed pressed between glass, but it can cause eventual damage. If you do plan to float it with no mat, you might think about float hinging it to a hidden backing, which is then attached to the back piece of glazing. The front piece of glazing could be held away from the art by spacers.
I think I like the last suggestion where I can float it with no mat. But not sure where I can get float hinging and a spacer.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Something I forgot to ask was, is the paper translucent? Your said it's sturdy, so am guessing it's not see through. See through prints wouldn't work so well for that hidden float back idea, as light from behind could cause one to see a shadow. As for getting float hinges and a spacer, are you using your own framing supplies, or working at a shop with limited supplies? Many framers would float it using mulberry float hinges and plastic frame spacers. If you haven't float hinged before, you'll want to practice on items other than this first. You'll also need to use an attaching medium that works for the glazing. I know some folks use acrylic gel as an attachment method for attaching the backings to which the art has been hinged. I don't know if that's the best method for this. I think it can adhere to acrylic, but not sure how good it is at bearing the weight of a floated 19 x 25" print. Hopefully, someone else will chime in on that.

One very helpful website, both for technique guides, and for spacers is www.frametek.com They have adhesive spacers that attach to glazing, as well as mechanical spacers, that slip over the edge of the glazing.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
All they want is to have their art is see-through. They want to be able to see the wall from the sides of art. Let's say I want to make it like a sandwich what would I put behind the second glass? Or is there another option except for sandwich?
OK, your intention is clearer now (please excuse the pun).

You could use a frame with about 1-1/4' to 1-1/2" deep rabbet, cut two pieces of glass (front and back) and suspend the art paper between them using magnets. In my shop the assembly would go like this:
1. lay in the front-glass

2. Install shadowbox spacers all around, about 1" wide (Assemble strips of any color matboard to 1/8" foam board; attach to rabbet using dots of glue)

3. Using cyanoacrylate (aka CA glue, aka Super Glue), bond four 1/4" or larger cube-shaped rare-earth (neodymium) magnets to the inside surface of the back-glass, positioned about 1/4" in from where each corner of the art paper would be, when it is centered on the back-glass.

4. With the back-glass laying face-up on the table, center the art paper on it and then install four more magnets to mate with the ones bonded to the glass. That is, the art paper is held securely between a pair of magnets recessed about 1/4" in from each corner. If preservation is an issue, place small squares of Mylar between the magnets and paper, front and back.

5. Making sure the glass surfaces are clean, lay the back-glass (with art attached) into the frame face-down, so that the art paper is suspended between the two sheets of glass, which are spaced 1" apart.

6. Cut a "spacer mat" (window mat) to fit the inside of the frame, with a 3/4" wide margin. Install the mat face-down on top of the back-glass to protect its surface from the fitting points. Mat color shows about 1/4" wide from front of frame.

7. Install fitting points, using the narrow window mat as a spacer to separate the points from the glass surface. If charcoal is loose, do this with frame standing vertically on the table, or use a low-impact fitting method to prevent jarring medium loose from the paper.

8. Install thinner spacers of matboard or foam board to fill the frame (should need only 1/8"-1/4" of these filler strips).

9. Cut a "trim mat" (window mat) with a window the same size as the "spacer mat" and a bevel-edged outer perimeter to fit the outside dimensions of the frame. Glue this "trim mat" to the back of the frame using dots (not lines) of glue, so that it can be removed. Essentially, this mat serves as a disposable dustcover. Since it's window size is the same as the "spacer mat", it should not be visible from the front.

10. Install a two-point hanging system that would be unseen through the frame, such as Fletcher Wireless or possibly WallBuddies.

Notes...
1. Since glass is a terrible thermal insulator, the paper could expand and contract enough to occasionally cockle, since all four corners are retained by the magnets. To minimize this, caution the customer to display/store/handle this frame in climate-controlled conditions and away from direct exposure to natural light through windows, etc.

2. Using Optium acrylic or other anti-static acrylic instead of glass would be better, because the plastic glazing has much better thermal properties and weighs about half as much as glass.

Hope that helps...
 
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shayla

WOW Framer
OK, your intention is clearer now (please excuse the pun).

4. With the back-glass laying face-up on the table, center the art paper on it and then install four more magnets to mate with the ones bonded to the glass. That is, the art paper is held securely between a pair of magnets recessed about 1/4" in from each corner. If preservation is an issue, place small squares of Mylar between the magnets and paper, front and back.....

Notes...
1. Since glass is a terrible thermal insulator, the paper could expand and contract enough to occasionally cockle, since all four corners are retained by the magnets. To minimize this, caution the customer to display/store/handle this frame in climate-controlled conditions and away from direct exposure to natural light through windows, etc....
How would it work to float hinge the art to a hidden float back and glue the magnets to the back of the hidden float? That would allow the paper some wiggle room, and the magnets would all be hidden.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Maybe I'm missing something here.
It was mentioned that "They want to be able to see the wall from the sides of art. Let's say I want to make it like a sandwich what would I put behind the second glass? Or is there another option except for sandwich?"the customer wants to be able to see the wall around the artwork"

They don't want to see thru the artwork, just the space around the artwork.:cool:
I have done this a number of times.

All that needs to be done is to cut a rag mat piece slightly smaller than the artwork.
Then, adhere that piece of mat board centered on the back glass using 969 tape or VHB tape or liquid adhesive or a combination of both on the back of the mat board piece.
Then, just hinge the artwork to the piece of mat board that is slightly smaller than the artwork and adhered to the back glass.
Put a spacer between the two pieces of glass and install into frame.

If you want to cover up the look of the back of the back glass which would show the tape or glue used to stick the mat board to it, just stick another piece of mat board, again slightly smaller than the artwork, to the back of the back glass to hide the adhesives used.
I would paint the inside of the frame, probably black, and the rear points for installing into the frame can be hidden by using stick on frame space with the points or nails being installed so they don't stick out past the frame space.

You could also possibly cut a very small mat for the back just wide enough to hide the installation points maybe I/4", about the same width of the frame rabbet, and you will still have the effect of a glass see thru mat border.
I can probably post a picture of what I mean tomorrow about hiding the installation points.

I'm not quite sure why magnets would have to be used.
 
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Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
How would it work to float hinge the art to a hidden float back and glue the magnets to the back of the hidden float? That would allow the paper some wiggle room, and the magnets would all be hidden.
As neilframer described, magnets would not have to be used at all. However, the method I described minimizes the stuff between the glazing sheets, making the art paper actually float with some space between the sheets - and no adhesive of any kind on the art paper. The magnet mounts also would enable viewing both sides of the art paper, which would be especially useful when framing a document with writing on both sides.
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Lots of good suggestions for art with intrinsic value. If no intrinsic value, just use 2 tiny dots of silicone on top corners to prevent slippage on the least important side, squeeze the piece between two sheets of glass (or acrylic), and finish with small pinned quarter round and paint.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
... just use 2 tiny dots of silicone on top corners to prevent slippage on the least important side, squeeze the piece between two sheets of glass (or acrylic)...
Yes, this would work quite well for non-preservation jobs.

In a similar technique, I have made 1/4" x 1/4" square blocks out of layered matboard, about 1/8" thick. I Super-Glued pairs of them to the front-glass and back-glass. To provide a non-slip surface, I applied a generous coat of acrylic gel medium to each block. Using 1/4" FrameSpace between the glass sheets, the slight compression of the acrylic gel coatings was enough to hold the document.
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Lots of good suggestions for art with intrinsic value. If no intrinsic value, just use 2 tiny dots of silicone on top corners to prevent slippage on the least important side, squeeze the piece between two sheets of glass (or acrylic), and finish with small pinned quarter round and paint.
Be cautious with this method. I've done some experimentation with it. I used dots of dried silicone to create non-slip points for a sandwich and have had the silicone leach into paper even though it was apparently fully cured. For a thick paper with no real value, you should be fine. Thinner papers could become saturated at those points.

James
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
You might also consider framing in a clear Prisma frame.
 
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