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Question Framing Military Medals plus...

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Ruby, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler

    Stickle-framing-layout-(LOW res).jpg
    The attached photo provides a general idea of the plan for this framing. There would be three double mat openings for the two photos and one digital nameplate at the top and then there would be one double mat opening for the medals, patch and pins at the bottom - and the customer will bring in two more pins to add to this. The mat opening at the bottom will have spacing material for separation between the backing mat board the medals are attached to, and the double mat/glass.

    My questions mainly involve methods of attachment and how to price this:
    - Previously I have poked holes in the mat board and used the existing clasps whenever possible. I have also used thread to secure to the mat board. Is there a benign adhesive that could be used to secure the metal pendants to the matboard or is this a total no-no? (And where would I get the adhesive?) If the neck of the metal pendant immediately above the pendant is stitched to the matboard then the pendant couldn't go far - as long as the customer transports the framing home carefully. Is there a metal wire that is acceptable in some cases, and if so where can I get it? Is there something available in an invisible thread like fishing line, and if so where can I get that? Other thoughts, ideas, tips appreciated.
    - And then there is the question of pricing. I know the customer wants to do it but doesn't have a bottomless wallet. I also know this will be time consuming with unexpected twists and turns. How do I price this - and the pricing question is mainly directed toward the medals and pins in the lower mat opening?

    Thoughts, ideas and suggestions are appreciated.
    Thank you in advance for your assistance ~
  2. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Adhesive mounts for medals have been known to fail. There is very little surface area and most minimally-invasive adhesives would not stick well to the metal parts. Yes, silicone is a more-permanent adhesive, but it might also fail, and it can have reactive-chemistry consequences, and it can never be removed from the metal.

    Rather than using any adhesive in direct contact, I suggest using Mylar-D "spider" overlays with four-six small (like 1/4" wide x 1" long) straps wrapped to the back of an undersized backer (very handy for elevated mounts), or pulled through slots in a the mounting board. Use a good double-sided tape for the attachments; my fave is #ASA600 fillet tape from ASAP Tapes. For the medals located first, and third, from the left, you could attach them using 1/8" wide straps laced through the metal shapes.

    If the pin is intact, you can loop a strap of Mylar-D under it. Or, if the pins is missing or broken, sometimes you can slip a Mylar strap horizontally through the folded fabric loop, or just sew it down. No adhesive on the fabric, either.

    For pricing, I suggest at least $1 per minute of work.

    Illustrated instructions are in my book, The Complete Guide to Shadowboxes and Framing Objects. Maybe you can borrow a copy from a framing friend - or better yet, buy a copy of your own.

    Or, if you are a member of the FramersOnly Facebook forum, we will be presenting a live, online demonstration of a new, improved variation in this type of mount, as well as formed-rod and fine-mesh fabric mounts. Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 1:00 PM.

    Please excuse the shameless plug. ;)
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    shayla likes this.
  3. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Hi, Ruby! Cool project. Highly recommend Jim's book. It's saved my bacon on object mounting. The mylar straps worked really well.
  4. Greg Fremstad

    Greg Fremstad MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I've used linen hinge tape through a slit in the mat board. Push a loop through the mat and pin the medal (The ribbon hanging ones anyways) through the loop. Pull the pin back with the loop so it's flush with the mat surface. The gummed adhesive should last almost forever. Don't use pressure sensitive adhesive linen tape 'cause the adhesive will fail in time. This is completely reversible and won't harm the medal. On the ones without the ribbon, just poke the pin through and put a dab of silicone glue on the back side so they don't come out. Also removable with harm to the pin. Put the pin holders in an envelope inside the frame backing.
  5. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    In conjunction with the method Greg just mentioned, here is what I do to keep the medal from swinging around: Using a fine awl, poke two small holes in the backing just behind where the medal connects to the ribbon. "Stitch" the medal in place using 24 ga. wire, twisted and taped in the back. This wire comes in a number of colors, and can be found in the jewelry-making supplies dept. of any craft store. It is very easy to work with. One of these "stitches" is all it takes to secure most medals.
    :cool: Rick
  6. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler

    Thank you all!

    Jim, I didn't get a chance to look at home to see if I purchased your shadowbox book, (or maybe it was a different one written by Vivian Kistler?). If yours came out recently then I don't have it and will look into getting it.

    Greg, your ideas are very simple, and I have the gummed lined tape in house which is always a plus! Putting any parts of the framed items that are not used in the framing into an envelope on the back of the frame makes all the sense in the world!

    Rick, this 24 ga. jewelry-making wire that you mention, do you know what it is made of, how it holds up over time and whether or not it can be considered archival? Finding a good wire to wrap around would also help me because the two wires that bend to fasten two of the ten feather-shaped pins have broken off so I need to fasten them in some other way.

    No one made any mention of pricing, I know that is hard one to figure. It's always nice to be dealing with a customer where money is no object. But any ideas on that aspect of the project would also be appreciated ~
  7. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler


    I looked over your response to my Grumble question again and I see that I had skipped over valuable information. I am looking into getting some of the products you recommended but having difficulty locating them:
    - Mylar-D - How and where do you get this? Is there a specific thickness to use in this type of project? I assume Mylar-D is different than regular Mylar and that regular Mylar wouldn't work? I do want to get some of this but not in a huge supply.
    - ASAP fillet tape isn't available though our local distributors but I can get the item below through Larson Juhl. Will this would suffice? It is acid free and high bond...
    - [​IMG]
    Thank you also for responding on the pricing question, which I also somehow skipped over.

    I have never had a personal account with Facebook, we only have a business account, and that does not allow me to see your forum. I will look into creating a personal account so that I can learn more through your forum.

    Thank you for all your help ~
    ~ Ruby
  8. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    All of the suppliers of conservation materials sell clear polyester film, aka Mylar-D or Melinex 516, in sheets and/or rolls. It's is curious that your suppliers do not sell fillet tape. The image you posted is not visible to me, but if it is a good double-sided tap, it should work. However, never use ATG or other carrier-less tape with clear film, because that would fail.
  9. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler

    The description for the tape that was not visible to you is:

    "High bond ATG 1/4" wide tape designed especially for fillets. Large core and acid free. Double Sided Tuff Tape III. Tape - 1.2 mls clear polyprolyene film coated w/high tack acrylic adhesive"

    So it is a fillet tape but according to your description it is not acceptable because they describe it as ATG tape? In the store I have a Don Mar Fillet Tape that I purchased some time ago. It is 1/4" wide but I can not get details on it as Don Mar doesn't carry it any more. But it appears similar to what ATG tape looks like to me, with a release type paper that the adhesive pulls off of when applied to a surface. I assume this also would not be a "carrier-less" tape and therefore I shouldn't use it? :(
  10. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    That's right -avoid using any form of ATG tape on clear film. The tape used with clear film needs to have a good acrylic adhesive on both sides, and a carrier - preferably polyester, which would not stretch easily.

    Are you sure you can't find a fillet tape? I'm pretty sure Don Mar and Larson Juhl both have them.
  11. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    It was a friendly blip in post #2. Jim suggested $1.00 per minute for shop time.
  12. artfolio

    artfolio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    As you have so rightly pointed out pricing this is a nightmare and my own experience suggests that whatever you charge will not be enough.

    You have probably already spent an hour or two on the planning before even staring the actual work. Jim's suggestion of $1 per minute or $60 per hour is about what I would charge but estimating the time for a quote is tricky and, definitely, quote on the higher side as you can easily dial it back in the unlikely event of the job being quicker and easier than you expect.
    Jim Miller and shayla like this.
  13. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler

    Neither Don Mar nor Larson Juhl has a fillet tape. I am ordering a roll from ASAP.
    In regard to the polyester film, would .002 or .003 gauge be best for this project and general use?
    Thank you Jim :)
    And as far as the pricing/time issue, yes this IS heavy on the time! o_O
  14. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ruby, it's Lineco Frame sealing tape, Larson Juhl item 21649. It's an aluminum barrier tape with an acid free paper face, and often referred to as fillet tape, one of its uses in addition to sealing frames. It provides a barrier between the art and the bare wood back of a fillet, and I might add, combined with a strip of glue, holds the fillet in place very well.

    Not the use discussed in this thread.
  15. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I've never heard Lineco Frame Sealing Tape referred to as Fillet tape. I do use it as you described for finishing the back of a fillet installed in a spaced mat, but the Fillet Tape is the narrow double-sided tape (as described by Jim in post #10) actually holding the fillet to the underside of the mat opening.
    :cool: Rick
  16. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Different uses - read the box label on frame sealing tape.
  17. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Pat is correct, that the aluminum/paper barrier tape is suitable for isolating the unfinished wood of fillets, stretcher bars, and frame rabbets in preservation framing.

    However, that is not the kind of tape to use for clear film mounting. It still seems odd that neither Larson nor Don Mar have fillet tape, but you'll be pleased with the ASAP Tapes #ASA600 when it arrives. For the record, 3M#415 is also a good tape for the purpose, but 3M#665 is not.
    shayla likes this.
  18. snafu

    snafu MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I've never seen that happen with silicon. My experience is that even after 15 or 20 years silicon can easily be removed from any type of smooth metal, porcelain or plastic without damage.
  19. Ruby

    Ruby True Grumbler

    Hello Everyone!

    I thought you might like to see the finished framing. The customer was very happy and is planning to do some other military frames that won't be as involved. I have never been a "war buff" but the story of the man who received these medals is fascinating. He is quite a public figure and there is lots on the internet about Major RAOUL Lufbery, first American Ace Fighter Pilot. I've included a few links below and the New England Air Museum in CT has information about him as well. Enjoy! ~ Ruby


    Stickle-(frame) Low Resolution.jpg

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