Honest Employees ??

Originally posted by Danimal:
The missed point here is that the consumer is the one paying the bill.
The consumer is the one that shoulders the burden regardless of the charge company's policies about fraud. If they were to enact stricter measures, the consumer would pay for the technology through higher fees. I think that they know what they are doing and have balanced the cost of security against the loss from fraud to their own best advantage.

Excellent and enlightened discussion. Just as some of us were not cut out to be employees, there are those that are not meant to be employers. I have not had as many employees as most, and usually just one at a time. It's about 50/50 on them leaving of their own accord and those having been let go.
 
I've had prospective employers call for references on employees that have been asked to leave. The only information I will give them,(and the question I always ask when checking references myself) if asked "would you re-hire them?" is "No." When asked why not, I simply say that I'd rather not discuss it, and they should ask the employee. I figure if the employee won't discuss it, that will tell the prospective employer all they need to know, and doesn't leave me open to any litigation.
 
Originally posted by JRB:
A few years ago, children were told that they "would not amount to anything unless they finished high school." That was later altered to, "If you want a good job, you better finish high school." Then the same lines where
A person could finish a trade school and earn a decent living, buy a house, raise a family, even save a little for retirement.


They graduate to discover they have no salable skills at all, yet they were promised a great living if they got an education.
We protect their self esteem, we lower the basketball hoop, they must not think as John

Now that was a good rant.
Well Said!
 
Val, do you know an artist in Carson City named Gary Jenkins? He is the person who got me started in this industry. Say hello for me if you do.

Phoneguy, thanks.

John
 
Originally posted by ArtimisArtWorks:
Wow ....Thanks for all the responses. I appreciated all of your opinions.

Today was the first day I covered her shift, and it felt great. I feel a deep sense of having made the right decision based on all the information I had. Her husband called after I let her go and said " I know she has a lot of problems, and caused problems for you but you are putting my family in jeopardy" I replied "No she is responsible for her actions and ultimately there is a consequence"

I also found out she had called all the other employees to gain favor. I have been told that they really liked working with her, but felt that I must have had a good reason to do what I did.

We try live our life with honor and integrity. We go out of our way to be fair and respectful to our employees. We will not tell the other employees what she did, our honest business practices will have to speak for themselves.


FYI her husband just called again and left a message on the machine and asked for her "termination papers to be sent ASAP as required by law"

What ???

So I will have our attorney guide me in what to do from here. It should be an interesting turn. I will keep you posted. Thank god I keep really really good notes!

No good deed goes unpunished!
Please don't take this as real legal advice. I'm in Ohio too. There aren't any "termination papers to be sent ASAP as required by law." There aren't any termination papers period. You can fire someone, that's your right. You don't have to have a reason. You can do it for a good reason. You can't fire someone for a few reasons, and those pretty much hold up to the "if it would make the ACLU upset don't do it" test. In the absence of a discrimination suit, the request for information is probably more applicable to unemployment benefits but you'll be providing that to ODJFS directly. I still don't know how this 1-2 hours per week was calculated so I'm going to assume the worst for you and say she did something like come in at 10:06 and leave at 5:51 but she puts 10 to 6 on the sheet and gets an extra 15 minutes for the day today, maybe an extra 20 minutes tomorrow, and so on. After these years she's fired. Well, I think she'll probably get her benefits and you'll be charged. I've been charged when employees have done a whole lot worse. If she leaves at 3:00 and marks 4:00 or 5:00 then you have a good fighting chance, but nothing is a sure thing with ODJFS.
 
Yes, I know Gary and Kathryn quite well. They held painting workshops often at a frame shop I used to work in, and are well known here. He still does a painting demonstration on the local PBS station and is "famous" across the country, apparently. Kinda like the Bob Ross show. Gary's quite a character! I don't see him often, but will say hi for you when I do.
How did Gary get you started in this industry? Just curious.
 
Val, when I met Gary, he was managing A small Aaron Brothers store on Girard Street in La Jolla CA. This was years before they became a big box operation.

At the time I was purchasing my art supplies from them since he gave me a discount. It took him a while, he eventually talked me into working one day a week for him. At the time, I was trying to make a living off my paintings. He then talked me into two days a week, as time went on I had gotten married and thought I needed a "real" job.

I ended up working full time for them. As soon as he felt I could run the store, he quit so HE could live off HIS paintings. This was back around 1964-65, fun years for young artists and artist wannabees.

Anyway, that's a brief outline. Gary and I have remained friends through out the years, in spite of him turning me into a picture framer. He's a darn good guy and I am proud to be able to call him a friend.

John
 
John, he's still a darned good guy! They haven't come into my shop yet, but I expect they will. They're always looking for matboard scraps...nothing's changed there! Ha! I have one of his paintings in my studio at home. He was giving a workshop and has become known for painting mostly huge flowers. Someone challenged him, said I'll bet you can't paint anything but flowers anymore, so he whipped out a canvas, dabbed at it awhile, scratched his name in the wet paint, and said "Here, I can too." It was simply a dark sky full of dark orange/red/brown storm clouds, but hauntingly beautiful.Vary different from his flowers. I love it.
I'll be sure to say hello for you, but he would probably like it if you said hello yourself! Want his ##? I'll e-mail it to you, if you'd like.
 
Thanks Val, I have his e-mail address. I hadn't heard from him in years, so I looked up his web site. We said howdy to each other. I am going to fly up there on my way to Colorado as soon as I get my license. He was painting those large flowers for as long as I can remember. I have one of his paintings and a wood cut he did years ago.

If any of you gallery owners are following this, his paintings are well received by just about all who see them. Consider looking up his web page and making contact. He understands the business, you will not be dealing with an amateur. He is also a great guy to know.

John
 
I've been a manager in a large corporate engineering environment for some time and as I have a large number of employees I deal with performance issues on a regular basis. While there are certainly still "firing offenses", I think many of you would be surprised at how difficult fear of litigation makes it to terminate an employee for cause. Employment at will in no sense provides an out for the burden of proof if terminating for cause. If a terminated employee files for unemployment then you'll be forced to answer as to whether it was for cause or for the convenience of the company. If you indicate the former and that results in their being denied compensation then there's a good chance they'll come after you with litigation in which case you must have air tight written documentation for the specific cause for which they were terminated. Even in cases of time card fraud or theft it's generally not sufficient to catch them and have them confess and then terminate them. It's too easy for them to later claim it was a mistake, a misunderstanding, emotional stress, etc. What you really have to have is a record showing a pattern of behavior that continued in spite of counseling, warning, and progressive discipline. The other piece that must be there is consistency. You can't jump right to termination for one employee while another receives a warning for a similar offense.

In this case I'd be concerned whether you have an appropriate record of documentation of a pattern of behavior and appropriate progressive responses. The implication that the decision to terminate was based on the expression or body language of the employee is not good at all and you could regret having those words in a public forum if you find yourself in litigation.

With luck this employee will find another job quickly and the whole issue of unemployment and litigation will never arise. If you get a call for a reference I urge you to heed the advise of other posters and provide only verification of employment dates. Resist the urge to give even subtle "read between the lines" hints that this employee was terminated for cause.

Good luck.
 
Originally posted by ArtimisArtWorks:
Her husband called after I let her go and said " I know she has a lot of problems, and caused problems for you but you are putting my family in jeopardy" I replied "No she is responsible for her actions and ultimately there is a consequence"
Just a note about this comment:
You were right to say what you said here. YOU did not put anyone's family in jeopardy, she did it all on her own.

DO stay in touch with your attorney.

edie the arggh goddess
 
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