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Opinions Wanted How do YOU join your wood frames? April Survey

What is your shop's PRIMARY joining method for wood frames? (includes glue)

  • None/Does Not Apply/Not A Framer/Don't sell wood frames

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vnailer

    Votes: 166 77.6%
  • Nails

    Votes: 14 6.5%
  • Thumb Nails

    Votes: 15 7.0%
  • Wedges

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Biscuits

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Pre-Joined by vendor

    Votes: 8 3.7%
  • Splines

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Glue ONLY

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • OTHER (please explain in forum)

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • Total voters
    214
  • Poll closed .

Mike Labbe

Member, Former moderator team volunteer
What is your shop's primary method to join WOOD frames?

Monthly Survey & Discussion for April 2009
Results are anonymous

Glue is assumed for all choices

Which type of glue does your shop use?



RESULTS from previous TFG surveys: LINK TO RESULTS


Grumble surveys are purely for entertainment value, and to stimulate healthy/friendly discussion. Since the results only represent a relatively small group of participants, use them cautiously.
 
888

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Well, I voted, joined by vendor, because I use a join program for 2 of my suppliers and all closed corner. It covers a majority of my frames in number. But, I use v-nails for all others - happens to be for more dollars. There was no way to vote for 2 methods.
 

moglet

PFG, Picture Framing God
"Generic " PVA-based wood glue.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
MAXIM BLUE

:thumbsup:
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Corner Weld on a VN 42. Just enough so it doesn't ooze out. I've broken plenty of them down to be cut to other sizes and it doesn't doesn't like to let go.
 

MabSadie2

PFG, Picture Framing God
About a third I glue in the v-nailer, another third vised then v-nailed and the other third regular nailed in the vise. Whatever strikes the right balance between speed and strength. It helps that I am really attached to my favorite moldings and know them pretty well.

Cornerweld, Cornerweld, Cornerweld.
 

Sister

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Things that make you go "Ummmmm." Someone uses glue only! I'm too paranoid for that method.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
V-nailing is my primary method, but most wide frames also get biscuits and some get ordinary nails as well.;)
 

TopHat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I use CornerWeld and allow the joints to set for 5-10 minutes in mitre vises then I use a V-nailer (ITW-AMP 2+1). I tried skipping the vise, but was rarely satisfied with the result.
 

Twin2

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Lee Valley Tools' Cabinetmaker's Glue (2002 GF) and v-nails.
 

Sister

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I use cornerweld glue.

I only use only glue when doing fillets - ya know, when someone wants that really thin frame!
Gotcha! We get a request for those in 11x14 or 16x20 quite often. Hee hee!
 

moglet

PFG, Picture Framing God
I only use only glue when doing fillets - ya know, when someone wants that really thin frame!
I use the little iddy-biddy Cassese vnails for fillets that can take them.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
V nail and Maxim glue - generally the blue Maxim
 

JRB

PFG, Picture Framing God
Primary (the most frames) is a V nailer & Cornerweld. Secondary is a Hoffmann joiner & Cornerweld for large mouldings, shadowboxes, and hardwoods such as maple. Then it's dowels and Cornerweld for our mission style frames.

John
 

Gene Scott

True Grumbler
Cornerweld/Vice/Vnail. One to five minute set...I need to try Maxim although Cornerweld is great.
 

freakquency

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
It all depends on the moulding .. we use v-nail probably 55% of the time but thumbnails almost equal in use. Vice is incorporated when best suited.

corner weld is the glue of choice.
 

DPPhotography

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I use thumbnails, don't know what people have against them? I bought the shop from two ladies that that's all they used. They didn't have a v-nailer and I don't want to spend money on one, is it really that big of a difference?
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
DPP

There are Big Box chains that use thumbnailers only and do literally thousands of jobs a week.

If the system didn't work, do you think that they would keep getting by using it? I don't.

I have two competitors that have thumbnail masters only. They are still in business.

If you are having problems, think about changing, if not, carry on.

I find that I am using my Thumbnail Master more and more.
 

DPPhotography

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
DPP

There are Big Box chains that use thumbnailers only and do literally thousands of jobs a week.

If the system didn't work, do you think that they would keep getting by using it? I don't.

I have two competitors that have thumbnail masters only. They are still in business.

If you are having problems, think about changing, if not, carry on.

I find that I am using my Thumbnail Master more and more.

Not that I want to compare my shop with a big box store, but thanks, that makes total sense. Why change something if it works?:thumbsup:
 

Turnip

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Casesse V-nailer, and a Fletcher Corner Lock thumbnailer (for the deep frames)
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
MAXIM BLUE & MAXIM RED are available from Frame Specialties in Elkhart, IN.

Their phone is 800-777-3165.

The blue Maxim is a one minute set-up, 15 minute bond and cures in 3 hours.

The red is a 5 minute set-up and I believe also a 15 minute bond and a 3 hour cure.

I prefer the blue because I am one of the minority that still joins the old fashioned way by drilling, wire brads and filling. It sets up quite fast which works for me.

Frame Specialties has indicated that most framers that use v-nailers prefer the red so that they have a little more time to work with it.

Both dry clear and easily clean up with water.

When I'm joining I simply wipe off any overflow of the glue. If the glue seeps into any ornate area I allow it to dry for about a minute and use a toothpick to easily lift off any glue that I don't want in the design. Sometimes I'll leave some in corners to dry to continue a design or soften edges and then use oil paints to touch up and match the frame.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
For wood mouldings and fillets, I use CornerWeld or Maxim and a Fletcher/Pilm 5700 underpinner. For poly mouldings, I use cyanoacrylate and the same underpinner.

Mike, to supplement this poll, I would like to suggest posting polls for these questions:

"What is your second most frequent method of joining frames?

I guess most of us use more than one joining method on occasion. Obviously underpinning is most popular among the Grumblers who responded, but it might also be interesting to learn what is the second choice.

"Do you glue and let it dry before underpinning?

If a framer spends good money to buy an underpinner, and then can not join tight corners with wet glue, he is probably spending as much time as it would take to join with brads. What a shame to waste half the benefit of that investment.
 

MabSadie2

PFG, Picture Framing God
No, really, join your frames.

So, customer just moved here from Denver. She had a frame that fell off the wall so she brought it to us to fix.

It's a 40 x 53 poster. The molding was 3" wide, kind of a porous wood. Seems like a Larson knockoff. 1/2" gold bead fillet. She brings it in in pieces and is very concerned about making sure it doesn't fall apart again. Upon looking at it, the frame has not been joined at all. The corners were glued, then the poster and plexi were taped together with packing tape and then the whole thing was assembled in the frame and sealed with brown duct tape. The duct tape didn't hold squat. I thought it was a furniture store job, but she said it was custom. I have a general policy not to throw other framers under the bus, but once I pointed out the lack of joinery (while explaining why it would not fall apart again), she was not a happy camper.

Dear Denver framers, if this was your work, please consider at least a thumbnailer. If this had been glass instead of plexi, someone could have been seriously hurt. As it is, your customer is out about $120 in repairs. No maker's mark so I can't give you a heads up, but hopefully you are a Grumbler and won't be surprised if you get the call.

No offense intended to the great city of Denver and all it's many talented picture framers.
 

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Some days Sadie, I think we went wrong, so very wrong as an industry when we stopped throwing bad framers under the bus.
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
When I first got into framing as a hobby, there was an old guy in town on his way into retirement. I wasn't quite ready to go full time and I feel I missed out on a lot of knowledge by not getting to know him better. He died a few years after he retired in his late seventies.

What I'm building up to is, he framed longer than I have been alive.

Throughout his career, he only used glue and clamps for joining frames.

None that I have ever heard of failed.

Even after 20 years I still see some of his work from time to time for glass replacement, mat change or failed hinges.

I do not know what glue he used or if anything he did was different.

No brads, no splines, no vnails, no dowels. Nothing but glue.

I would give anything now for a thirty minute conversation with him.
 

MabSadie2

PFG, Picture Framing God
Well now you have me curious.

Assuming for a moment that I were not criticizing the technique, what advantage is there to not joining?
 

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Sadie, you need to re-define your term "not joining". By virtue that the frame was glued together it was "joined".

You might seek some professional help about your issues in using the term "nailed". I have the first week in June available. :D
 
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