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Opinions Wanted How do YOU join your wood frames? April Survey

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Mike Labbe, Apr 3, 2009.

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What is your shop's PRIMARY joining method for wood frames? (includes glue)

Poll closed May 1, 2009.
  1. None/Does Not Apply/Not A Framer/Don't sell wood frames

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Vnailer

    166 vote(s)
    77.6%
  3. Nails

    14 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. Thumb Nails

    15 vote(s)
    7.0%
  5. Wedges

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Biscuits

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  7. Pre-Joined by vendor

    8 vote(s)
    3.7%
  8. Splines

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  9. Glue ONLY

    6 vote(s)
    2.8%
  10. OTHER (please explain in forum)

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  1. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    What is your shop's primary method to join WOOD frames?

    Monthly Survey & Discussion for April 2009
    Results are anonymous

    Glue is assumed for all choices

    Which type of glue does your shop use?



    RESULTS from previous TFG surveys: LINK TO RESULTS


    Grumble surveys are purely for entertainment value, and to stimulate healthy/friendly discussion. Since the results only represent a relatively small group of participants, use them cautiously.
     
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  2. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Well, I voted, joined by vendor, because I use a join program for 2 of my suppliers and all closed corner. It covers a majority of my frames in number. But, I use v-nails for all others - happens to be for more dollars. There was no way to vote for 2 methods.
     
  3. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Essentially what Pat said (and ditto for the 2 method option).

    Lots of my suppliers charge me the same price for joins as chops....;)
     
  4. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    Whichever method is primary (used most by # of frames, not dollar value), is the correct choice.

    Sorry for the confusion

    Mike
     
  5. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    So what brand of wood glue do you all use?
     
  6. moglet

    moglet PFG, Picture Framing God

    "Generic " PVA-based wood glue.
     
  7. evartpat

    evartpat PFG, Picture Framing God

  8. UTA KIRCHLECHNER

    UTA KIRCHLECHNER CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    :icon11:Mike, we use the v-nailer, but before we nail, we glue. There is no category for that.
    Uta
     
  9. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Maxim
     
  10. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    Glue is assumed for all choices. I mentioned that in post 1, but didn't have room to put it up at the very top, in the header.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2009
  11. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Corner weld (for the glue) and v-nailer
     
  12. Dancinbaer

    Dancinbaer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I also pre-glue (CornerWeld) in a vice before v-nailing.
     
  13. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

    Maxim Blue glue.
     
  14. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

    It's only 1 minute set- up. Love it
     
  15. Paulette Pyron

    Paulette Pyron Grumbler

    I use Corner Weld
     
  16. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    MAXIM BLUE

    :thumbsup:
     
  17. evartpat

    evartpat PFG, Picture Framing God

    Same here...the best way to get the perfect corner IMHO. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Eastcost frames

    Eastcost frames Grumbler in Training

    I Corner weld and v-nailer did not know their was another way to do it with out getting out the real tools !:)
     
  19. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Frank's Adhesive.... natch
     
  20. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    We needed an 'all the above button' based on the situation.


    Corner Weld
     
  21. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Corner Weld on a VN 42. Just enough so it doesn't ooze out. I've broken plenty of them down to be cut to other sizes and it doesn't doesn't like to let go.
     
  22. MabSadie2

    MabSadie2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    About a third I glue in the v-nailer, another third vised then v-nailed and the other third regular nailed in the vise. Whatever strikes the right balance between speed and strength. It helps that I am really attached to my favorite moldings and know them pretty well.

    Cornerweld, Cornerweld, Cornerweld.
     
  23. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    We use Cornerweld, too, but will try that 1 and 5 minute set up blue glue.

    Thanks for the tip!
    Mike
     
  24. rhop

    rhop SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Vnail with maxim.
     
  25. Sister

    Sister MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Things that make you go "Ummmmm." Someone uses glue only! I'm too paranoid for that method.
     
  26. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Dave,

    Where are you getting your Maxim? My local supplier stopped carrying it.
     
  27. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I thought that was a "men's" mag!
     
  28. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    V-nailing is my primary method, but most wide frames also get biscuits and some get ordinary nails as well.;)
     
  29. matage

    matage CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    v-nail and Maxim Blue
     
  30. TopHat

    TopHat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I use CornerWeld and allow the joints to set for 5-10 minutes in mitre vises then I use a V-nailer (ITW-AMP 2+1). I tried skipping the vise, but was rarely satisfied with the result.
     
  31. Twin2

    Twin2 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Lee Valley Tools' Cabinetmaker's Glue (2002 GF) and v-nails.
     
  32. Grey Owl

    Grey Owl SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I use cornerweld glue.

    I only use only glue when doing fillets - ya know, when someone wants that really thin frame!
     
  33. Sister

    Sister MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Gotcha! We get a request for those in 11x14 or 16x20 quite often. Hee hee!
     
  34. moglet

    moglet PFG, Picture Framing God

    I use the little iddy-biddy Cassese vnails for fillets that can take them.
     
  35. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    V nail and Maxim glue - generally the blue Maxim
     
  36. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    Primary (the most frames) is a V nailer & Cornerweld. Secondary is a Hoffmann joiner & Cornerweld for large mouldings, shadowboxes, and hardwoods such as maple. Then it's dowels and Cornerweld for our mission style frames.

    John
     
  37. Gene Scott

    Gene Scott True Grumbler

    Cornerweld/Vice/Vnail. One to five minute set...I need to try Maxim although Cornerweld is great.
     
  38. freakquency

    freakquency SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It all depends on the moulding .. we use v-nail probably 55% of the time but thumbnails almost equal in use. Vice is incorporated when best suited.

    corner weld is the glue of choice.
     
  39. DPPhotography

    DPPhotography CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I use thumbnails, don't know what people have against them? I bought the shop from two ladies that that's all they used. They didn't have a v-nailer and I don't want to spend money on one, is it really that big of a difference?
     
  40. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    DPP

    There are Big Box chains that use thumbnailers only and do literally thousands of jobs a week.

    If the system didn't work, do you think that they would keep getting by using it? I don't.

    I have two competitors that have thumbnail masters only. They are still in business.

    If you are having problems, think about changing, if not, carry on.

    I find that I am using my Thumbnail Master more and more.
     
  41. DPPhotography

    DPPhotography CGF, Certified Grumble Framer


    Not that I want to compare my shop with a big box store, but thanks, that makes total sense. Why change something if it works?:thumbsup:
     
  42. DMF

    DMF Grumbler

    splines.

    titebond.
     
  43. Turnip

    Turnip CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Casesse V-nailer, and a Fletcher Corner Lock thumbnailer (for the deep frames)
     
  44. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    MAXIM BLUE & MAXIM RED are available from Frame Specialties in Elkhart, IN.

    Their phone is 800-777-3165.

    The blue Maxim is a one minute set-up, 15 minute bond and cures in 3 hours.

    The red is a 5 minute set-up and I believe also a 15 minute bond and a 3 hour cure.

    I prefer the blue because I am one of the minority that still joins the old fashioned way by drilling, wire brads and filling. It sets up quite fast which works for me.

    Frame Specialties has indicated that most framers that use v-nailers prefer the red so that they have a little more time to work with it.

    Both dry clear and easily clean up with water.

    When I'm joining I simply wipe off any overflow of the glue. If the glue seeps into any ornate area I allow it to dry for about a minute and use a toothpick to easily lift off any glue that I don't want in the design. Sometimes I'll leave some in corners to dry to continue a design or soften edges and then use oil paints to touch up and match the frame.
     
  45. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    For wood mouldings and fillets, I use CornerWeld or Maxim and a Fletcher/Pilm 5700 underpinner. For poly mouldings, I use cyanoacrylate and the same underpinner.

    Mike, to supplement this poll, I would like to suggest posting polls for these questions:

    "What is your second most frequent method of joining frames?

    I guess most of us use more than one joining method on occasion. Obviously underpinning is most popular among the Grumblers who responded, but it might also be interesting to learn what is the second choice.

    "Do you glue and let it dry before underpinning?

    If a framer spends good money to buy an underpinner, and then can not join tight corners with wet glue, he is probably spending as much time as it would take to join with brads. What a shame to waste half the benefit of that investment.
     
  46. MabSadie2

    MabSadie2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    No, really, join your frames.

    So, customer just moved here from Denver. She had a frame that fell off the wall so she brought it to us to fix.

    It's a 40 x 53 poster. The molding was 3" wide, kind of a porous wood. Seems like a Larson knockoff. 1/2" gold bead fillet. She brings it in in pieces and is very concerned about making sure it doesn't fall apart again. Upon looking at it, the frame has not been joined at all. The corners were glued, then the poster and plexi were taped together with packing tape and then the whole thing was assembled in the frame and sealed with brown duct tape. The duct tape didn't hold squat. I thought it was a furniture store job, but she said it was custom. I have a general policy not to throw other framers under the bus, but once I pointed out the lack of joinery (while explaining why it would not fall apart again), she was not a happy camper.

    Dear Denver framers, if this was your work, please consider at least a thumbnailer. If this had been glass instead of plexi, someone could have been seriously hurt. As it is, your customer is out about $120 in repairs. No maker's mark so I can't give you a heads up, but hopefully you are a Grumbler and won't be surprised if you get the call.

    No offense intended to the great city of Denver and all it's many talented picture framers.
     
  47. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Some days Sadie, I think we went wrong, so very wrong as an industry when we stopped throwing bad framers under the bus.
     
  48. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    When I first got into framing as a hobby, there was an old guy in town on his way into retirement. I wasn't quite ready to go full time and I feel I missed out on a lot of knowledge by not getting to know him better. He died a few years after he retired in his late seventies.

    What I'm building up to is, he framed longer than I have been alive.

    Throughout his career, he only used glue and clamps for joining frames.

    None that I have ever heard of failed.

    Even after 20 years I still see some of his work from time to time for glass replacement, mat change or failed hinges.

    I do not know what glue he used or if anything he did was different.

    No brads, no splines, no vnails, no dowels. Nothing but glue.

    I would give anything now for a thirty minute conversation with him.
     
  49. MabSadie2

    MabSadie2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    Well now you have me curious.

    Assuming for a moment that I were not criticizing the technique, what advantage is there to not joining?
     
  50. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Sadie, you need to re-define your term "not joining". By virtue that the frame was glued together it was "joined".

    You might seek some professional help about your issues in using the term "nailed". I have the first week in June available. :D
     
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