how tight too tight

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beatrice

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At the shop that I work in it has become a big issue about the tightness of wire. We use strap type hangers with braided wire. I have been threaten by the owner breaking my fingers. I have framed for about 12 years and this has never been an issue with a cutomer only the past 5 years that I have worked for this person. I'm not talking about having it so tight you can play songs; just tight enough slip your hand palm side down under the wire. He wants a fist +++.Is this issue a big deal in other shops??????OR just a pet peeve??????????
 
Sounds like he's a pet pain. In our shop, we stretch it as tightly as possible when looping through the strap hangers and wrapping nicely around. Then we pull tightly upward in two spots to simulate two hooks from which it'll hang. We believe this stretches the wire out to its max ahead of time, and kind of "shows" the customer where the hooks should go. Why does he care?
 
MM, I think the first is talking about the wire to hang from looking like this O-----O and the boss wants it like this o/\o. It all does have something to do with the weight of the picture and ease of hanging.
 
but does it really matter???? I hang a picture on the once we're not talking about the comfort of a strap on a purse or a luggage. We're talking about having a place in **** for people that make the wire to tight!!! I just really belive that there are bigger fish to fry on a framing package. I'm thinking that I already died and feeling the heat!!!!!
 
Can you tell me why you stretch the wire tight?
I always use Dee rings and wire. The Dee rings go one third of the way down the side of the frame and I have the wire in an upside down vee shape with the apex one sixth of the way down from the top of the frame. Someone who knows a lot more about physics than I do, told me that the straighter the wire is, the more strain there is on the wire. If it is straight across the picture, then the tension on the wire is much more than the weight of the picture. I have the calculations at the shop so I will look them up tomorrow.
 
The question is how tight is too tight?? I use the D-rings I call them straps; loop it through twice wrap the wire about 10 15 times off on that side; pull it across and loop it through twice on the other side.Then I give the wire a pull as mentioned before.This was the way that I was taught.Thanks for letting me vent about this.
 
This is great: we can't solve world problems but we sure can get into what's what with wire. Not to bludgeon it, but...we definitely hang from two hooks, not one. (Okay, a really small guy gets one.) We place the strap hangers higher than one-third down because we believe the picture stays flatter against the wall: the theory being that the top won't gap as much. There's physics in here somewhere, I'm sure. Lastly, if you've used D-strap hangers and wire, we assume you are within range of safety and tolerance on the weight, otherwise you'd be using vertical strap hangers/no wire on the side rails.

It's Tuesday and time for this shop to get serious again about its backlog.
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I find that when I tight-wire a frame, it has more of a tendancy to hangflush with the wall. When a frame is wired more loosely, it tends to lean away from the wall.

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
 
Can't take credit for this, nor can I prove the physics (you can jump in here any time, Orton), but according to a Tech Tip in the M & M catalog the following should answer the above questions:

"For any size frame weighing 10 lbs:

60 degrees---force on each screw eye = 6 lbs
45 degrees---force on each screw eye = 7 lbs
30 degrees---force on each screw eye = 10 lbs
15 degrees---force on each screw eye = 19 lbs
10 degrees---froce on each screw eye = 29 lbs
5 degrees---force on each screw eye = 57 lbs
2 degrees--force on each screw eye = 143 lbs

Force = 1/2 Weight
_____________________
Sine of Angle


When attaching wire to the hanger located on the back of the picture frame, remember that the degree of slack is vital to the success of the job. Wire pulled tighty from side to side will have a pressure of 143 pounds against the rail. Using a lesser degree on the wire will greatly reduce the pressure against the rail. This can help to prevent the frame from breaking and dropping to the floor. The best angle for the wire is 19 degrees. This will place 20 pounds of pressure against the side rail."

I rarely use screw eyes, and I angle the d-rings inward at the same angle as the wire. If the moulding is too narrow, I use one of several other types of hangers. Also, I made up a triangle of foamboard about 20 inches long at a 19 degree angle to use as a guide. For larger frames when I recommend and provide two hooks I include a little printed "Tech Tip" with the hooks indicating why the two hooks, and how far apart to place them to get the 19 degree angle and why. Makes me look smarter than I am.
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I don’t know if Paul Frederick is anybody’s source anymore, but in his book he feels the right amount is: “one-third down the height of the frame, with the apex of the wire coming at one-sixth of the height. On long vertical pictures, the screw eyes may be placed at one-fourth and sometimes 1/5 down the height. The apex of the wire should then be at least 1 ½” below the upper edge of the frame. Don’t make the wire too tight across the frame.”
These are basically the guidelines that we use. I don’t understand why this is a source of contention for you. Here are the facts. The shop belongs to your boss – is that not correct? If so, then why do you have a problem doing things as he asks you to do? I own my own shop and I feel that I want the framed pictures to leave here the way that I want them to look. That invites consistency. The people that work for me do things the way that I want them done or they do them for someone else. That is not to say that I am not open to new ways of doing things, but if, after five years, you have not convinced your boss (the one who is paying your wages) that your way is better, then, maybe you should think about being a little less contentious and do things the way your boss asks you to do them. It is, after all, his business and his name that goes on the back of the picture. I think the real answer to this question is: If it is your shop, do it any way you want; it is your shop after all and your name is on the back. If you work for someone else and this is an important issue to that person for which you work, do it their way. If you want to continue to do it your way, then start your own business. Get it?
 
You can never win an argument with your boss.

Your boss can prove that to you every payday.

From the boss point of view, there are a lot of tough choices to make in business. You do not want to be one of them.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the cat.
 
You know the tech information was very was great and that was what I was looking for.
 
And Thanks for putting me in my place, I will beat myself nightly with a long piece of wire.Threats of breaking my fingers and "there is a place in **** " is just the way for an employer to handle a problem employee as I found that I am. And my name does go on the back of every frame package that I complete and I am who the customer comes too when something is wrong.I was just trying to do it the right way again thanks for the tech. information.
 
Beatrice, I once beat the phone with a hammer until it was a rattle when I got upset with the owner. He was on the other end.

P.S. he bought me a new phone so he could call me again.

Find another boss there are plenty of good jobs out there. You might even get more money.



[This message has been edited by framer (edited May 31, 2000).]
 
And listen to that guy: he was once on one side and is now on the other. On the subject note, it strikes me that we are edging into Freudian fronts with all this talk about being tightly wired, or loosely wired, or even wired at all. It's a great business, and it's nice to see one Grumbler back here who hasn't been around for awhile.
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Thanks, I guess I was feeling a little wired and tight.And the tech information will still be useful whever I go. I just wish that I was not so,misunderstood I was hoping to add a little humor to this and get some tech advise.
 
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