I got a double miter saw! :D ....... D:

GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I gotta admit, I'm intimidated. For decades the shop has been using a single miter saw for our length, which definitely has its issues. So when I was contacted by someone who was selling a used Pistorius that had been used for framing, I figured hey why not? Had an electrician out to install a new outlet for it, and now I can put it to work, except...It turns out the right side's saw snags when trying to lift it up, it also doesn't stay up all the way so I figure it needs to have the canister things on the side replaced. The biggest issue though, is that I can't find a manual for it! I tried looking but I'm only finding them for the enclosed double miter saws. Can anyone clue me in?
 

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alacrity8

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Congratulations on your new tool.

What is the model on that Pistorious?
I've never seen one that looked like that.
Sounds like you need new Gas Springs (The pistons on the side).
I'd probably replace both of them at the same time for more even action.
Are there any indications on them of the weight rating?

Brian
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Grumbler Larry Peterson maintains a database of manuals for all sorts of framing equipment. If you can determine the model number, you can check that database. As you may know, Pistorius is out of business, but there are still sources for replacement parts, and some may even be generic.
:cool: Rick
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Grumbler Larry Peterson maintains a database of manuals for all sorts of framing equipment. If you can determine the model number, you can check that database. As you may know, Pistorius is out of business, but there are still sources for replacement parts, and some may even be generic.
:cool: Rick
Unfortunately, I don't have that one. If you find a manual let me know so I can put it up on my site.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
In almost 20 years here, I have never heard of a Pistorius BWS saw so a Googling I went. And dasGoogle has never heard of it either so it must not exist. :faintthud:

I Google therefore I am
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
BMS -- Bench Miter Saw, but I've never seen one of those either. It's actually what I would call a dual single miter saw as each blade is operated independently. Reminds me of a CTD D20. Based on the serial number, it appears to be from 1971. Larry, you're just too young. :)
 
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GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
And here I thought my Google-fu was weak, when it was the google that had failed me.

I had done a test cut on the good side and man that thing slid through the moulding like butter with one of the smoothest cuts I've seen, so I'm keen to get it in working shape again.

Paul, I'd agree with you on that definition, and both blades run at the same time too which is slightly alarming when I'm used to a weenie miter saw with a safety button on the handle.
 

wpfay

Forum Support Team Angry_Badger
Staff member
You should be able to inspect one of the pneumatic lift assists and get the model number off of it. Pistorius was known for using standard parts so these should be fairly easy to find.
Otherwise I think Tech Mark is stocking replacement parts for the Pistorius saws, so you might check with them about the lifts if you can't find them elsewhere.
The machine looks amazingly clean for its age. A little TLC and it might outlive us all.
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
On a related note that may be relevant to GreyDrakkon...
Does anyone have advice for trueing the angle of the blades on a double mitre saw?

I have been trying to improve the mitres on my corners, as some mouldings just aren't perfectly flush.
As I've read from other threads, it's better to have perfect mitres to start with, rather than sanding or filling poor mitres.

I have a CTD D45. (Found the manual online thank goodness!)

03.jpg01.jpgTHE BIG GREEN BEAST!

The manual states that blades even slightly out of alignment can mean uneven mitres.
There are instructions for trueing in the manual but wondered if there are any secret tricks of the trade.

I have been using this saw for 10 years, and it's never been adjusted in that time. No idea if it has ever been done?
How frequently should that be done?
I may be moving the saw and other equipment to a larger space in the next month or so. So figured that would be as good a time as any to do some long-overdue maintenance.

Does anybody have thoughts on this?
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Classy, the way you miter with the rabbet out, Peter... 😁
I never really thought about that. I could just as well cut it the other way, but it would be slightly awkward to
hold the moulding as I don't clamp it. I don't get serious break-out or whiskers on the back but I cut mainly
bare wood so any rough bits get smoothed off after joining. ;)
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Peter, I was just kidding about maybe joining the frame in the picture...

I agree with your cutting with the back to the fence.
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Staff member
Interesting, I cut it with rabbet against the fence. As that is how my set up is, with measuring to the right I won’t change it, but never thought to reverse it. Can’t really think it through how that would work either. Lol
This will keep me up tonight!
 

wpfay

Forum Support Team Angry_Badger
Staff member
Chopper and saws, Brevetti and Phaedra, are all back against fence. Even the sliding jig on the table saw.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thinking about it..... If I cut rabbet-to-fence I would have to make the first cut on the left saw. This would
reduce my max cutting length by a couple of feet. As it is, I can cut about 7ft without removing the window.
Also deep 'cap' mouldings would be tricky. 🤨
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Staff member
Thinking about it..... If I cut rabbet-to-fence I would have to make the first cut on the left saw. This would
reduce my max cutting length by a couple of feet. As it is, I can cut about 7ft without removing the window.
Also deep 'cap' mouldings would be tricky. 🤨
Yes, I cut on left saw first.
I’m still trying to think how it would work reversed, for me at least. Lol
 

snafu

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Does anyone have advice for trueing the angle of the blades on a double mitre saw?
I've done it years ago. I purchased CTD 10" wanted to increase it to 12" after moving everything back an inch had to true up the blades.

I would check it first using a good 45 degree square.
this one is on amazon
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Isn't that funny how we get used to doing something a particular way, then when we find someone does it differently it's like a revelation.
It never occurred to me to cut moulding with the rabbet against the fence.
I'm trying to visualize doing that on my saw, and it's hurting my head.
I think with the way the blades are angled on my saw, which are not adjustable, that it wouldn't work. It would be the reverse angle.
Ouchy, thinky pain! o_O
I'm going to experiment next time I'm at the shop.
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I've done it years ago. I purchased CTD 10" wanted to increase it to 12" after moving everything back an inch had to true up the blades.

I would check it first using a good 45 degree square.
this one is on amazon
Yeah, that's what I was going to try. I have a contractors square but am not sure if it has the precision required for perfect truing of machinery. I think the one you mentioned is probably more precise. I'll see if I can find something similar at a local shop. Thanks for the input!
 

GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Mike, thanks, I'll take a look at it and see if I can glean anything.

I'm STILL stuck on the whole "back against the fence", both my regular miter saw and my chopper have it set up so the rabbet faces the fence.
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...both my regular miter saw and my chopper have it set up so the rabbet faces the fence.
I can't picture how it would work to have the rabbet facing the fence on a chopper, bec. the "V" of the perpendicular blades faces the fence.
:cool: Rick
 

snafu

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I can't picture how it would work to have the rabbet facing the fence on a chopper,
I don't think it will work with a chopper or a double miter saw like CTD
It could possible work with a power miter box
 

GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I can't picture how it would work to have the rabbet facing the fence on a chopper, bec. the "V" of the perpendicular blades faces the fence.
:cool: Rick
Ah, point, what I meant is that the rabbet faces away from me when using the chopper, like when I'm using the miter saw. The fence is along the backside of the moulding for the chopper, and has its own stop that measures based off the inside lip of the frame. For the miter saw, the rabbet goes up against (and overhangs) the fence.
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
When I needed to adjust the mitre angles on my Brevetti Prisma I fiddled around for hours without getting anywhere and eventually gave up and called the supplier I bought it from. (In my defence, the setup is a lot more complex than just winding a single screw - it is a slide mitre saw and the blade has to be trued vertically as well.)

The tech who came out used a device I had never heard of called a "Dial Gauge" which was basically a pressure sensitive plunger mounted on a 45 degree square with a dial facing the operator. He drew the blade across with the plunger touching the metal and used the fluctuations on the dial to show which way the blade needed adjusting. Once he had finished the mitres were perfect and I never had to touch that adjustment again.

I am not sure how it would work on Grey Drakon's setup but it seemed a lot more precise than any square.
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
When I needed to adjust the mitre angles on my Brevetti Prisma I fiddled around for hours without getting anywhere and eventually gave up and called the supplier I bought it from. (In my defence, the setup is a lot more complex than just winding a single screw - it is a slide mitre saw and the blade has to be trued vertically as well.)

The tech who came out used a device I had never heard of called a "Dial Gauge" which was basically a pressure sensitive plunger mounted on a 45 degree square with a dial facing the operator. He drew the blade across with the plunger touching the metal and used the fluctuations on the dial to show which way the blade needed adjusting. Once he had finished the mitres were perfect and I never had to touch that adjustment again.

I am not sure how it would work on Grey Drakon's setup but it seemed a lot more precise than any square.
Yeah, I was wondering if aligning these monsters was difficult.
Your Brevetti looks like it functions similarily to my CTD; dual blade, pneumatically activated, both blades cut at one time.

I'm wondering if one (or both) of the blades on my saw is ever so slightly off 45 degrees from the fence, making a slight gap, which gets more noticeable the wider the profile of the piece being cut. Profiles under 2" or so are pretty good, but sometimes not perfect. Much wider than that and I almost always have to do some seam filling, which I hate.

I have seen dial gauges before. That's a great idea.
Not sure I want to buy one for using one time.
I'll see if anyone I know has one.
Thanks for the lead!
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
On my saw, it's like a chopper except you operate it from the opposite side. ;)

I slide the moulding along and cut the end on the right saw. Then slide it up to the stop and cut the
other end on the left saw. With me so far? 🙂

To get the perfect 45º one of the saws can be skewed slightly by slackening the mounting screws and tapping
with a hammer. This allows a tiny amount of adjustment. Rather like tweaking the left fence on a chopper.

The measuring system is quite cute. It has a removable extension as it encroaches on the right saw when you are cutting
rails below a certain length. R
emoving this part also gives an extra 700mm cutting capacity. You just have to remember
to deduct 700mm when setting the stop.

shed13_007.jpg
 

snafu

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
The tech who came out used a device I had never heard of called a "Dial Gauge"
When I was in machine shop class we called them Dial Indicator
 

echavez123

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Interesting, I cut it with rabbet against the fence. As that is how my set up is, with measuring to the right I won’t change it, but never thought to reverse it. Can’t really think it through how that would work either. Lol
This will keep me up tonight!
This threw me for a loop too. Then, I realize, he cuts the right side first, then the left. What I cant phathom is how clean his work area looks - I mean, where does the saw dust go?
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Staff member
That’s why my pic is a close up, I’d be too ashamed....

I did understand the cutting order, I still don’t understand the measuring, photo is too blurry on the right to see. I assume the measuring tape is on the opposite side of the bed/rail from mine
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
This threw me for a loop too. Then, I realize, he cuts the right side first, then the left. What I cant phathom is how clean his work area looks - I mean, where does the saw dust go?
Agreed, that shop looks spotless and very well organized.
I'm hoping to move into a new shop space in a month or so.
I will try to make the new space something "prospero-esque" :)
It's so much nicer to work in a well-maintained environment.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
That’s why my pic is a close up, I’d be too ashamed....

I did understand the cutting order, I still don’t understand the measuring, photo is too blurry on the right to see. I assume the measuring tape is on the opposite side of the bed/rail from mine
There is a raised wooden rail that lines up with the fences on the saws. On this is stuck a 5ft engineer's steel rule.
A three-sided wooden piece slides along and is locked with a G-Clamp. It's all very simple. It just looks complicated.
No Morso-like vernier scales. I measure the moulding with with digital calipers, double the result and add.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Agreed, that shop looks spotless and very well organized.
I'm hoping to move into a new shop space in a month or so.
I will try to make the new space something "prospero-esque" :)
It's so much nicer to work in a well-maintained environment.
😁 You wouldn't say that if you saw it now. That photo was taken after I had just installed the saw.
It looks like Godzilla's playroom now. It's is a dedicated dusty area for sawing/routing. An ex-mobile home in the yard which I
converted. Hope to finish it one day. (All the mat cutting/mounting/assembly takes place in another location.)

bench001.jpg
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
That’s why my pic is a close up, I’d be too ashamed....

I did understand the cutting order, I still don’t understand the measuring, photo is too blurry on the right to see. I assume the measuring tape is on the opposite side of the bed/rail from mine
Hey Ylva: don’t be ashamed. Just take one look at mine, and you won’t stop laughing.

I call my work area “Jail Time”.
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Staff member
I have a designated saw room. Long narrow area with curtains. So I’m not too worried about sawdust either. I have a good dust collecting system, but nothing is 100% dust free ever.
My fitting table is in separate part of the workshop.
Nothing is tidy. I know where to find things, no one else ever would be able to.
 
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