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Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by GreyDrakkon, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. GreyDrakkon

    GreyDrakkon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    So I have a regular customer who likes buying older artwork, which means it's usually frame in some...Interesting ways. Sometimes good, sometimes just slightly damaged, sometimes in awful crumbling mat board. He comes in with a pretty nice piece, and at first glance looks good if a few things that could be a an issue. Nice solid frame that he likes, rag mat. Glass doesn't look archival, but hey, at least it's not broken. The print itself has a slight wave going through it, but that could be caused by age, moisture, or who knows what. He asks me to open it up, and...Cardboard. Cardboard directly sandwiching the original artwork with rag mat on top, and held onto that rag board with a sticky tape all the way side to side. o_O

    WHY would a framer put cardboard in the back of a frame when they have access to things like rag board?! I can see a customer arguing that they want regular glass instead of UV, but cardboard and tape?! Anyone else encounter something as baffling as that?
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  2. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over. ;)

    Out of sight, out of mind. :cool:

    A nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse. :p:rolleyes:
    GreyDrakkon, Joe B and JWB9999999 like this.
  3. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I had a customer come in with framed art where the print came loose and was slightly uneven, just uneven enough the be noticeable. While the customer was there I opened it up and found the mat was cut crooked and had shifted and when I removed the mat found the signed & numbered quasi valuable print held in place with strips of grey duct tape. There was a label on the dust cover so I do know who did the work - needless to say the customer won't be going back there anytime soon.
  4. Greg Fremstad

    Greg Fremstad MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    It probably buckled because it was taped down all around and could not expand/contract freely with changes in humidity.

    If you have a heat/vacuum press, put it in dry at 150°F for a bit and it should flatten. When you refit this beast, tape seal all around from the very edge of the glass to the back side of the backing to prevent any rapid changes in humidity and leave it all slightly loose in the frame to allow for free expansion of all the materials within.
  5. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I did one once. Quite a nice signed print. The mat was rag board with some good French lining on it.


    The print was glued down and the mat was glued on top with glue encroaching onto the print border, almost
    to the image. When I say glue I mean horse's-hoof type hot glue. I reframed it and cut the print to the image.
    No way around it. Prising the mat away was a tricky procedure. o_O
  6. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Some of my favorite (or is it favourite ) sayings... Said the blind man to his deaf son...:p

    It's always a good policy to open the framing up while the customer is there and in front of them so that the blame for any damage will be properly placed.;)
    shayla likes this.
  7. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I would just like to mention the strangest hinging technique I ever saw.

    Band-Aids. :confused:

    I've also seen postage stamps as hinges, but that is actually not too bad. Better than masking tape.
  8. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    To answer your question of why would they do that?
    Ours is an industry in which a business can be set up reletivly cheeply with equipment that will produce a good looking frame, I think there's some that set up without realising that there are industry standards.
    I don't think there's any malicious intent, I think it is a case of ignorance or a little knowledge is a dangerous thing type deal, we probably see that kind of thing more here in the UK than you do in the USA, actually it's a very rare thing for me to open up a frame and see art work or a print hinged correctly, less than one in a thousand and that is more a understatement than an exaggeration, I have taken stuff apart and thought wow that's been done well, which is a pleasant surprise when it happens.
  9. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I recently started doing some framing for an art teacher. :rolleyes:

    Nice chap. I do him nice frames for his originals.

    He also does and has been doing prints for the last 30 years or so...
    For these he buys readymades and assembles them himself. Nowt wrong with that.

    But. On talking to him I discovered that his method of mounting was to stick the print to
    the back of the mat with Sellotape. Applied on all sides.
    He had no conception of hinging and no notion that Sellotape dries up in a few years leaving
    a nice brown stain behind. Completely oblivious.
    He had always done it like that and that's that. :) To a non-framing person (Fruggle) this
    would seen to be the logical and reasonable method. If I dare say so, this is a typical 'teacher'
    mindset. "I know what I like and I like what I know", as Peter Gabriel used to say back in '74.
    OK, the prints were never going to be valuable so any damage is neither here nor there in
    the long run. They might slip in the mat or go a bit wavy - nothing that can't be rectified.
    But the slightly sad thing is that it's no more effort to do the job 'properly'.

    I gave him a crash course and told him where to get P-90. :p
  10. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    This was it....

  11. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God


    You know what they say about teachers.
    "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach".....:cool:
    (sorry teachers):oops:
  12. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Just to clarify, that was harking back to post #5. :rolleyes:
  13. GreyDrakkon

    GreyDrakkon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I've actually had a print come in almost exactly like that, down to the french lines on it but it was done on ancient acidic mat board, so I figured it was a case of "well this is what we've got, so that's that."

    My dad always liked the phrase "I see, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw."
    shayla likes this.
  14. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres,
    which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

    Matthew 23:27
  15. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    What ya talking bout?

    Darren 20.3.17
  16. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    IFGL likes this.
  17. Scallywag

    Scallywag CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    This brings up a situation I came across.... I got a call from a client who had a large (56" x 72") photo framed and the client said the framer ruined it. When I went to see it, I was shocked. It was not mounted, framed to the edge in a frame that was 1" on the face and 3/4" deep. It had spacers and Optium. The art was so wavy and wrinkled that it looked like a plastic garbage bag stuffed into the frame. The client said the framer told her it was too big to mount. So now she is paying me to have it mounted to Dibond and framed with a 2" deep frame with spacers and a strainer. So the question is.....Is the framer responsible because they didn't know how to mount it, or is the client responsible for not knowing what to ask for?
  18. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Mostly the framer. But it's typical of customers to get a huge paper piece of art and think that all
    that needs doing is to make a frame and bung it in. Glass contact aside, it will go wavy. People have
    the idea that it's the glass that keeps it flat. No way. I would adventure to aver that if a big piece of
    paper was sandwiched between a 2" thick piece of plate glass and a concrete paving slab, it would still
    go wavy.
    Not many framers have a press that would swallow a 56x72" piece. Job for a signmaker.
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