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Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by KeepFraming, Jan 5, 2001.

  1. KeepFraming

    KeepFraming Guest

    Going through business plan again, trying to fine tune some parts. Thought someone may have input on the issue of insurance...What insurance coverage will be needed? Is there a high incident of lawsuits in this business? Will a discalimers on invoices hold up in court?
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  2. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    This question is like so many asked on this site. My suggestion is to quit asking for open ended suggestions from a bunch of people that really aren't qualified or even able to answer thse questions.Ask someone that is a professional in that arena, your professional insurance agent, your professional CPA, your attorney. Not a person on this forum probably has a chance of providing better advice than the worst of any of the above trades. For the exact reason that you expect your clientele to take their art to a professional framer, so should you take your professional-questions to those most able to answer them. And, be prepared to pay for that information. You normally get what you pay for
  3. William Ross

    William Ross CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Bob, be nice. They are only looking for information and maybe some other framers can give them some information. My experience has been people who understand the industry had a better ideas what is needed than someone who has never been in the business.
  4. William Ross

    William Ross CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Bob, be nice. They are only looking for information and maybe some other framers can give them some information. My experience has been people who understand the industry had a better ideas what is needed than someone who has never been in the business.
  5. JPete

    JPete <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><

    Get more than one quote and ask those agents some hard questions. A lot depends on the state you live in. Liability coverage is important. Does it cover within a certain raius of your shop eg. if you deliver and hang the work and damage other property. Bob may be right but there is scam in every industry so make sure your agent is reputable.
  6. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I sure didn't mean any offense to the questioner, only the question. And that rather begninly. There is a lot of mis- or disinformation spread on the forum( we'll call them opinions). My suggestion remains as nicely as I can state: Get professional advice from those that really do know the answer, and be prepared to ask very specific answers. For example, if the question was "how do you find the rates or service of Capax versus others", that's a fair question. And on that point, we had a claim with them that was handled very quickly and very much to our satisfaction. They are the suggested carrier touted by the PPFA. But for general information like asked, it's better answered by a professional
  7. Framing Goddess

    Framing Goddess SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    My State Farm agent had NO IDEA that his co. did not cover damage to customer's property that was in the process of being worked on. (Sorry about the grammar, MM) Needless to say that when we did have to make a claim, they refused to cover it until I pitched a b*tch and they then covered it because of "agent's error."
    Of course, I switched to Capax but not until asking a lot of "what if" questions. I did not know about Capax until I posed the question to this very forum and got many recommendations. And THEN asking the questions...
    So, there is a case, Bob, of a professional who didn't really know/understand the needs of my business (like those of you in the biz) and it could have been a BIG problem.
    And just how do we decide how much coverage to have? I would love to hear from folks who have experience with insurance shortcomings and goof-ups-- I would love to learn that way instead of "the hard way."
  8. B Carter

    B Carter Guest

    I think the operative word,Goddess, is professional. Clearly, your agent wasn't. That's part of being a bussinessperson,to figure the difference. But, I'll bet if you asked every person on this forum if their policies covered the claim you spoke of, I'm sure the majority would think that they would be covered. They would be wrong. So,Goddess, you first line of defense still is a qualified professional. I'm not sure why anybody would disagree with that.
  9. MerpsMom

    MerpsMom <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><

    True apologies to the Goddess for causing her to even think I would impugn her grammar skills. Actually, she is updated and doesn't realize it. Sad to say, apparently it is now acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition. Some of us will leave skid marks.
  10. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Most insurance companies do not offer the special coverage I want for my business. It's normal for us to have $50,000 or more worth of customers' property in our store, and we often transport big-ticket items for pickup or delivery. Most insurance companies limit "Property of Others" and transit coverage to well below our exposure.

    Capax is my choice -- the company endorsed by PPFA. They put together a package of insurance coverages designed for the needs of frame shops, with lots of options suitable for situations like mine.

    I agree with Bob that you should seek professional advice from insurance specialists; several of them. But first, consider the kinds of coverage you need.

    TADPORTER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I use State Farm. Have been with my agent for 10 years and have built a great relationship. We custom designed an insurance program to cover my situation... no prob.

    Presently have $30k blanket coverage on "property of others". Also attached to policy are riders for items of $5k or more EACH. I purchased an add'l $30k (6 items at $5k, 3 at $10k, etc).

    Occasionally situations pop up where my coverage is not sufficient. Recently framed several items for a well-known mansion once occupied by an even more well-known deceased singer/actor (think Memphis). Collectively, the 33rpm albums had a value of $250k alone with some being priceless as they were original issue promos owned by the singer or his manager. Also framed movie posters, tickets, etc. (blah, blah, blah)
    The mansion wanted at least $500k coverage while I was in possession of the items.
    In this case, my insurance agent and I worked out a temporary blanket policy to cover entire collection. This terminated as soon as the items were completed and delivered. Was NOT all that expensive either.

  12. Framing Goddess

    Framing Goddess SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Okay Bob C., that was my point-- that this State Farm guy IS a professional- in all my dealings with him up until that point he was sterling. I was, in fact, giving him the benefit of the doubt- perhaps he just did not know the pitchure framing industry. So hopefully with input from those of us intimately involved in the biz, we can avoid gaffs like that. A business person also knows where and when to get the information they need and this forum is an excellent place to fill in any gaps.It is certainly not adequate as a sole source of info, but a business person would know that! Okay Bob, ball's in your court!
    Yikes, it's now okay to end a sentence with a preposition...? what is this world coming to...?
    Tad/Mike, I would be darn sure to ask your agent those "what if..." questions--- my State Farm agent and I custom designed my policy as well... Make sure that the "property of others" coverage includes property that is being worked on. (It just doesn't sound right, MM!) To us it may just sound like a semantics issue, but it makes all the difference in the world when it comes down to "yes, it is covered" or... Just ask him if that $15,000 canvas you just put your awl through is covered.
    I did find that CAPAX seems to have met my needs, but there is, however, a cap on the coverage on the property of others that I would have liked to have been higher. I don't know the specifics but I can check and post it later...
  13. po' framer

    po' framer MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Not only sentences ending in prepositions, Goddess, one can now insert apostrophe's just wherever in the heck one think's that one need's to be!

    This is one which really grits my teeth.....
  14. B Carter

    B Carter Guest

    I think you better check your policy on the awl through the canvas scenario. Tomorrow, I will. But I'm pretty sure that property of others includes losses outside your care and custody. I think that's the prevailing decider.Meaning if you damage someones art, it's your fault and I don't think any carrier will cover your mistake. It will cover things like damage caused by a pipe breaking, the roof caving on to the art, the store burning down. Things like that are covered, but once again quit asking the people that aren't going to pay the claim. Ask the people who will pay the claim(the professionals). My opinion or even my dead certain recollection won't feed the bulldog. Go directly to the source, do not pass go, do not collect $200. But I'm baffled why you left State Farm. They bent over backwards to take care of your claim when they weren't responsible, your agents was a sterling professional and yet your payback for their above and beyond service was to cancel. I know every time I go way overboard to resolve a difficult problem, no matter who was at fault, is to ensure I keep that client. I'm usually rewarded with repeat business. What happened in your case?
  15. JFEIG

    JFEIG Guest

    Regarding transporting clients work....
    Your automotive policy is where you handle this coverage.
    We have cargo insurnace on our van. It will also cover your tools if they are damaged or stolen.

    Jerome Feig CPF ISA
    Field Art Studio
    Pleasant Ridge, MI
    248-399-7018 fax
  16. sherry gray

    sherry gray Guest

    Because of this forum, I had my State Farm agent check on damages to work in progress. When I called him, he assured me I was covered. But I asked him to check specfically on this one point and relayed the information I learned from here. Unbeknownst to both of us, those damages would not be covered. (We're both relieved that I framed those 14 original de Chirico's without incident, some of which auctioned at Sotheby's for 1.5 mil each). I am now in the process of researching other options. By the way, if your agent has an errors and omissions policy in effect, damages would be covered until such a time as both you and the agent knew better. He's keeping me covered until I can get other insurance. Thanks to you all for this valuable information.
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