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Just wondering

Jean McLean

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Just wondering what others use for cleaning glass. I've tried absolutely everything and always come back to Cinch but its expensive. Also, bundles of cheese cloth rags from Home Depot work well but is there anything that leaves less lint?
 
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Janet L

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Jean, go back through the archives to May/June of '99 and you'll find a lot of comments on lint problems.

There has also been a recent post this year on glass cleaner. Don't have time right now to look it up for you (and it may have been eliminated when the Grumble went down).

Hope you can find a solution. We've tried everything, but have found no PERFECT solution thus far.

Janet

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How cheap do you want it to look?
 

artist

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Siad it before and I'll say it again, Tork towels and True Vue glass cleaner are the best I ever seen. Tork towels are the kind used in some restrooms in garages and are available from Le winter Moulding and Supply. Absolutley no lint and if you put them in a box by the table thep are reusable when they are dry if not to dirty!
 

JRB

PFG, Picture Framing God
We use a very old picture framers formula.
Get some plastic dispenser bottles from Smart & Finale, the kind used for catsup and mustard.
Fill the bottle halfway with alcohol, rubbing is fine. Put a small amount of rottenstone in with it, we use a medium flat screwdriver as a shovel, one shovelful should be enough. Fill the bottle the rest of the way with water.
Squirt the mixture onto the glass and clean with flatfold cotton diapers. Wash the diapers at least once before using for glass cleaning. You can purchase the diapers from Babyland.
Diapers leave no lint and they last for years, saves a fortune in paper towels and such.
Getting the amount of rottenstone is a little tricky and takes some practice. If you use too much, you'll get muddy streaks, not enough and it won't cut the silicone powder on the glass.
In my years of framing, I've tried many products. I've found that the above formula is by far the best.
You can get rottenstone from any hardware & paint store, cost's about three dollars for enough to last for years.

John
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Orton posted a disclaimer about using rottenstone on a thread in the past. He cautioned against using it. John, do you remember what his objection was? I know it had something to do with some component being corrosive or non c/p. Perhaps when he is well he might enlighten the subject. But, I remember he was pretty much against it's use.
 
S

Scarfinger

Guest
Cotton rags from Costco - wash and dry 'em a few times before use to reduce loose fibers. We buy "Ultra Lite" glass cleaner from Accent Art (a supplier in Vancouver,BC) - works the best of any we tried. Glass cleaning is a breeze.
 

CharlesL

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jean, send it UPS to Janet. I swear, I will fuss, cuss and fume over a piece of glass, spraying and wiping it 4 or 5 times, even 'polishing' it. I've used Tru-Vue, lint-free towels, everything. Janet will take the glass, hold it up, and say, "Let me see it. You missed a place." She sprays and wipes it one time, and it's crystal clear!!!
ARRRGH!!

Jean knows I'm joking. Tru-Vue is the best I've used. Glass cleaning is not my strong suit. Lint-free towels are the best bet also. As asinine as it sounds, I really believe technique plays a big role. I believe you can try too hard. Janet just sprays, wipes and PRESTO, it's clean.

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I'm not totally worthless. I can always be used as a bad example...
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Something else comes to mind. Buy paper packed glass instead of the powder or siliconed glass. It's clean out of the box and generally only requires wiping off your own fingerprints. Well worth the very little extra it costs
 

Lance E

Member
For ordinary float glass with gunk all over it we use a 50/50 of isopropyl and water with whiting instead of rottenstone. Clean the glass with scrunched up newsprint(unprinted) and then polish with an old nappy. For precleaned glass (Tru-Vue) polish with nappy.
 

CharlesL

PFG, Picture Framing God
Bob's right again. We started buying our glass by the 'box', and it is v-e-r-y clean. Comes packed with thin paper between the pieces. 'Bout all you have to do is wipe off your fingerprints from taking it out of the box. I'm sure it's cheaper somewhere else, but we get a box of 23 16X20 lites for about $34.

The stuff we were getting, in pre-cut sheets, was covered with graphite and Lord knows what. Hadn't thought to mention that, Bob. Good point!

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I'm not totally worthless. I can always be used as a bad example...
 

Jean McLean

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Janet, I buy my glass from Don Mar out of New Jersey and I buy a whole box of 47% UV protection glass for less than what you pay for regular. I use Tru Vue. Yes, I know about the paper. Yes, I know it is much cleaner. I just hate the cost of Cinch and the cheese cloth rags leave a lot of lint so thought some input may help me change my preferences. Will try all that was suggested and thank you all.
 

JRB

PFG, Picture Framing God
Orton's objection was that rubbing alcohol may have a perfume content that may be invasive to the artwork. He also objected to using an abrasive, that if not cleaned completly off the glass, could, in time, cause damage to the artwork.

I have been using my previosly mentioned formula for about four years now and I love it, it does work great.

If you want to be more in line with Ortons thinking, use the above formula submitted by Lance E, it's the same idea only he is using a non perfumed alcohol.

I used to use old newspapers back in the sixties and I personaly prefer the cotton diapers, they are cleaner and faster to use.

Orton is, without a doubt, the guru of conservation framing on this site. He is a purest in the truest sense of the word and he is also a true gentelman, and I respect him highly.

Myself, I'm just a regular picture framer trying to get the work out as best I can. I take extra precautions when I'm doing archival framing just like most everyone else does. I am sure I do not take it as far as Orton does, but I try to be within reason.

Bob, could you share with us your glass cleaning formula, your suggestion of using boxed glass was very good, it is however a more expesive way to go for shops that purchase in low volume such as mine. The thread was, after all, about glass cleaning formulas, wasn't it?

John
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Actually, John, I think the thread was about cleaning glass. My suggestion was a cleaner piece of glass would be easier to clean than a powder or silicone covered lite. I thought it was a helpful suggestion.

You indicated that boxed glass was an expensive alternative not affordable to small shops like yours. We buy glass in pallets when access is no problem and boxed glass in other locations. I'm sorry I don't have any other suggestions than those two methods. But my suggestion was about paper-packed versus powder packed.

As far as glass cleaner, we buy the aerosol spray from Larson or CMI. I guess we aren't as adventurous as some to concoct our own brew.

We use surgical towels that are washable and they have been very servicable. They get replaced about once a year

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited April 28, 2001).]
 

MerpsMom

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Just as a point of interest: both our large local suppliers dropped powder-pack glass several years ago because it was an abysmally poor seller.
 

JPete

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
I've forgotten the price of the powder packed glass but I'd raise the glass price to cover the difference. Once you do you'll never go back. It saves so much time in cleaning not only the glass but the rest of the shop. We are probably as low a volume as one can get but would never go back to dirty glass.

MM, I think just plain old glass reflects more than 47%. Maybe we are both sleeping.
 

Janet L

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Just a thought, but alot of time can be saved by purchasing the boxed glass with paper in between the sheets of glass. Time IS expensive and eats away at your profit. I'd rather spend a few dollars more for a box of ALMOST clean glass than have to pay for the powder coated glass AND the EXTRA amount of time it takes to clean it. I guess it boils down to each owner's priorities of how dollars are spent.

Just my very humble opinion.

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How cheap do you want it to look?
 
R

Ruth Yheulon

Guest
I have only ever purchased glass packed with paper, actually didn't know it came any other way. I guess it is probably a break even choice, A. pay more for the glass and save time (money) cleaning, or B. save money on the glass price and spend the time (money) cleaning it. I personally do not like to clean glass so my choice would be A.

We like to use Sprayway and the tork towels. I get a really good price on the towels from a local janitorial supply store.
Ruth
 

Lance E

Member
I bet we all get clean glass in the end, as a point of interest we are no longer able to get paper packed glass due to low demand! However we use a lot of Tru-Vue CC so it's not too bad. For cleaning this if it's too dity to just polish off, use distilled water on the cloth(at least it would be peace of mind).

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"If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!"

[This message has been edited by Lance E (edited July 02, 2001).]
 

MerpsMom

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Lance, why is it just the opposite situation in NZ? Powderpack is rare here: what's the deal?
 

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MerpsMom:
Lance, why is it just the opposite situation in NZ? Powderpack is rare here: what's the deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People from "The Land of the Long White Shroud" just haven't woken up to the fact that "powderpack glass" is a pain in the....you know what, yet! ;o))

Powderpack glass has not even been offered to me for about 5 years. Hopefully it has disappeared forever down here in The Land of OZ. I really hate it!

It is really interesting that you guys up there in The Land of The Dollar Bill can get packs of clear (regular) glass in small sizes. The only sizes that seem to be available here are 36" x 48" and sometimes 36" x 60". Tru Vue has some smaller sizes in specialty glass but that costs an arm and three legs!
I usually buy 36" x 48" clear glass in packs of 100 to 150 sheets from a supplier who delivers from about 400 miles away.

*** Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. ***
 

Lance E

Member
The average framing standard in NZ is appaling, the vast majority of work is done with the minimal amount of fiscal expense as possible. There is simply not enough people to support the importers carrying two types of similar stock, it's a Catch 22. We used to get Ozzie glass, now it's all from Asia, and it's not very good.
 

Jean McLean

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Tru Vue sells more than one type of UV glass. They have one that is 47% UV protection and then one that is 90 something. The 47% is very affordable and I use it on my own work plus customers who are willing to pay the difference. I can get the 47% glass for around $30 per box (lites) and have to pay our local hardware store $40 per box for powderpack glass!
 
F

Frank

Guest
Jean, I think you're a little confused. Regular glass blocks about 47% of Ultraviolet light, regular plexi about 80% and neither of these is considered conservation grade. In fact no glazing is considered conservation unless it blocks at least 97% of UV. TruVue and others are now publishing the amount of UV their various glasses block and I think you picked up on this and thought the 47% was a special product but it's just plain old regular glass.
 

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lance E:
The average framing standard in NZ is appaling, the vast majority of work is done with the minimal amount of fiscal expense as possible. There is simply not enough people to support the importers carrying two types of similar stock, it's a Catch 22. We used to get Ozzie glass, now it's all from Asia, and it's not very good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The average framing standard is pretty lousy over here too.
We don't get 'Ozzie' glass here in Oz either. We get all that asian stuff too. Some is acceptable but most is ****!

*** Never stand between a dog and a tree. ***
 

Lance E

Member
Thats hardcase isn't it, for anyone who hasn't seen it, the Asian stuff is sometimes paper interleaved and always covered in "stuff".
By the way did you watch the Sevens?
For every one else I'll let you know that NZ thrashed Aussie for the World Cup Sevens title last night.
 

CharlesL

PFG, Picture Framing God
Lance, I know you hated to mention that to Osgood.........
 

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm glad for you Lance, that The Kiwi's finally won something against the Aussies.
I don't follow football much and hadn't heard about that, but I do know how you guys love to thrash us when you can. Its the same as us loving to thrash the Poms.
 
C

Celeste Moore

Guest
From personal experience,and in answer to using the cheesecloth,I recently framed a Miami Dolphins football jersey in a 40x50 shadow box.With a black velvet background I had to work very hard to get my glass lint free. I tried a lot of products out there but to no avail. I then purchase some lens cleaning cloths that I found at a local Walmart store and was amazed at the results.
 

Janet L

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Celeste,
Welcome aboard! It's good to see another NC framer with a good suggestion for a problem we all experience.

Janet
 

sumik

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Celeste...you are braver than I am. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, like Ruth,I didn't know glass came any way other than paper pack. Don't understand the big deal here. I have always used regular paper towels and sprayaway and a drafting brush. Never really thought I struggled that much. I once worked for a man who used newsprint (uprinted) that he got from the local paper.
 
B

beck

Guest
Regarding cleaning glass (if you're still on that subject...!): blue tork towels are lint free with TruVue glass cleaner works great! The 3M scotch guard towels are lint free and don't scratch, but they are advertised as not needing any cleaner with them... that's not true!! You still need the glass cleaner, but they work great on glass that scratches easy like UVF and Image Perfect!
 
B

Bob Shirk CPF

Guest
What do you guys and gals use for cleaning True-Vue AR glass? I seem to have a devil of a time cleaning that stuff. I charge a lot for it because it takes me so long to get the streaks off that glass.
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
Have been using Sprayaway glass cleaner for several years now. Works great on the coated products. I have also been using the store brand "green" paper towels (Publix here) and have been very happy with them. Perhaps another bit of Phramers Physics: the more expensive the paper towel, the less I like it for glass cleaning.
 

Scott

True Grumbler
No matter what cloth you use there is always at least one fuzzy stuck under the glass somewhere. I have found a long turkey feather works great at snagging those loose fuzzys. The feather has just enough tooth to it grap lint with out getting gunked up. My wife plays the Dulcimer with the quill ends until they fray and split. Then the feathers enjoy another year or two of life in the frameshop. I've tried blowing the dust out with the air compressor but the dust storm just lands somewhere else.
 
F

framechick

Guest
Bob - and anyothers in the same boat:

I have less of a streak problem with AR & Museum using less cleaner. I've had success spraying Sprayway onto a cloth and sqeezing and folding so the cleaner is really in the cloth rather than on it. I also like the miracle magic 3m waffle cloth - I forget the real name but they've been demonstrating it at the last few trade shows I've been to. Also I always wear glove when handling the stuff.
 

Lance E

Member
framechick, instead of using a cleaning product have a go at using just good old fashioned water on the 3M cloth, this should result in far fewer streaks.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Here is a thought about always getting fuzzies on the glass. I found that after I started seaming the edge of all of the glass I use, two things happened. First, I bled a lot less, and second, the sharp edge didn't shred the paper towels. Fuzzies gone. I use paper towels from the Shop n Save supermarket the house brand. I found that they fuzz the least of all on the shelf. The only other one which fuzzed less was the tree free recycled paper towels but they stopped selling them.

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maur

Grumbler
Where do you purchase sprayaway glass cleaner. Is it alcohol free. I have a heck of time cleaning the ar glass.
 

Bill Henry-

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
We use Sprayway glass cleaner and cheesie paper towels.

What's the big deal with lint?

We buy the cheapest paper towels on sale (as long as they don't have bunnies or teddie bears printed on them) and swipe the glass with a camel hair brush used solely for that purpose.

After the paper towels dry, we re-cycle them to be used to wipe glue off our frame corners, for kleenex, or as door prizes for kids.
 

tnframer408

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
take glass out of box using neoprene or other type surgical gloves. Cut, put in frame, bingo.

No glass cleaner, no nuttin'. If you have to clean theglass, buy Paul Fredericks' book and folow his recipe for glass cleaning solution. Makes a coupla gallons and will last for a few mohts anyway.

And, Bob Carter, the rottenstone ifused in moderation gets into the grooves and microscopic corners of Museum Glass and gets the microscopic grunge out.

Compare the cost of Paul Fredericks' solution vs. TruVue stuff. And please, if you'r eusing alcohol/water/dash of soap ADD A SURFACTANT SOLUTION. It will negate the chemistry of the soap
 

fttom

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
409 Glass and Surface Cleaner and Box of Rags from Home Depot. The rags are like old t-shirts. The glass cleaner is great. Will clean any kind of glass or acrylic. Won't leave streaks. Be sure to use the Glass and Surface Cleaner, not just the Glass Cleaner. There is a difference. ;)
 
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