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Larson Juhl buys online framing retailer

framergirl13

In Corner
As of Friday, Larson Juhl has purchased Documounts, which is an online retail framing supplier. Documounts was a division of NW Framing which owns Beards, Museum Quality, and Frame Central in Oregon and Washington.
 
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PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
It looks like Documounts will cut mats and frames to size, but doesn't do the actual framing. Rather, this is for DIY people, probably artists that don't want to pay one of those pasty-faced overpriced framers to frame stuff.
 

FramerDave

PFG, Picture Framing God
Framergirl, welcome to the Grumble. If I may make a suggestion, you may gain a bit more credibility if you provide some information backing up what you're reporting, otherwise it's no more than irresponsible gossip. You might also get a more welcoming response by telling us a little about yourself in your profile.
 

PicturedFramer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Will Larson Juhl Compete with You?

If the rumor is true that LJ is now the proud owner of Documounts what does that mean to us NW Framing businesses? Since NW Framers is the owners of our competition, Museum Quality Framing, Beards, and Frame Central...."Documounts and it parent organization Northwest Framing which owns and operates the largest group of retail and commercial frame shops in the Pacific Northwest. These include Northwest Framing Commercial, Museum Quality Framing, Beards Framing and Frame Central...." are doing business against ourselves? If we continue with LJ are we feeding the competition and dooming ourselves? OR will they continue to be really nice guys? I like LJ and their products and will continue to buy from them for now, but looking at their web site (Documounts.com) they buy supplies from Framers Inventory, at least I recognize some frames they have readymade for real cheap-$27 for a 16x20 and that includes backing board and acrlyic and flexipoints -frame #900035 black matte -I'm fairly sure.
It's like Xerox selling you copiers and then opening a Xerox Doc Center copying around the corner from you, ethical? I guess we all have to bite the bullet and see it all evolve. If the rumor is true.:mad::vomit:
PF
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If the rumor is true that LJ is now the proud owner of Documounts what does that mean to us NW Framing businesses? Since NW Framers is the owners of our competition, Museum Quality Framing, Beards, and Frame Central...."Documounts and it parent organization Northwest Framing which owns and operates the largest group of retail and commercial frame shops in the Pacific Northwest. These include Northwest Framing Commercial, Museum Quality Framing, Beards Framing and Frame Central...." are doing business against ourselves? If we continue with LJ are we feeding the competition and dooming ourselves? OR will they continue to be really nice guys? I like LJ and their products and will continue to buy from them for now, but looking at their web site (Documounts.com) they buy supplies from Framers Inventory, at least I recognize some frames they have readymade for real cheap-$27 for a 16x20 and that includes backing board and acrlyic and flexipoints -frame #900035 black matte -I'm fairly sure.
It's like Xerox selling you copiers and then opening a Xerox Doc Center copying around the corner from you, ethical? I guess we all have to bite the bullet and see it all evolve. If the rumor is true.:mad::vomit:
PF
I've stayed away from having Larson in my shop for all the Big Box support, and other reasons. If this is true, it'll be another reason. I'm sure they've got a great product, but there's tons of great moulding companies out there that don't do this...
 

DVieau2

PFG, Picture Framing God
We all know this is a tough economy and businesses are collapsing.

This could also be a case where a creditor (LJ) take an equity share of the company to secure their debt.

This has happened a number of times in the photo business with Kodak and Fuji.

They usually reorganize and resell the company after things have stabilized.

Doug
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Good point Doug, that's sounds very plausible. My guess is that this was a negotiated debt settlement.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Did Warren Buffet have anything to say about LJ at his recent gathering?
 

dtwwillow grove

Grumbler in Training
Warren Buffet buys profitable operations,with top knotch management teams. He
never purchases a business that is losing money. That is the Buffet way. When larson bought bendix, they bought the inventory not the business.They also aquired the customer list---the valuable part of the organization.
 

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Warren Buffet buys profitable operations,with top knotch management teams. He
never purchases a business that is losing money. That is the Buffet way. When larson bought bendix, they bought the inventory not the business.They also aquired the customer list---the valuable part of the organization.
They just don't always stay that way. Twice Nardelli has entered the Kingdom of BH. :kaffeetrinker_2:
Even WB didn't have good things to say at the last SH meeting.

Just sitting here shooting carp in the rain barrel... I'm guessing that LJ is getting tired of getting their face slapped every time they wander into retail, and figured that they could do this with at least some modicum of anonymity . . . they just may have not counted on the Grumble. Always a huge mistake . . . never underestimate the power of the passed word. :thumbsup:

Grumble on good siblings, grumble on.
 

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
NW Framing and 2 of their major suppliers.
It may seem strange, but NWF is over here in Fort Portland, snuggled in between the Beaver Tribe and the other Reservation. Usually they are not disturbed by the ride-by arrow shootings or errant miss-tossed gill nets and for the most part the wild forest animals stay out of the wagon tracks, but we do have a little bit of exposure to the outside world. Nothing like the sofisticatered east coast..... but enough to know that question was asked and answered already.
 

David N Waldmann

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Nothing like the sofisticatered east coast..... but enough to know that question was asked and answered already.
Well I don't know how sofisticatered (sic) we are, but maybe just enough that the word of a random unidentified person is not enough to qualify as an "answer".

And your "confirmed" gave no indication as to where/how.
 

climbingclouds

Grumbler in Training
Most likely the original poster is a colleague of NW Framing and “leaked” the information under shroud of anonymity here on the board. NW Framing colleagues were made aware of the sale last week.
 

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
And your "confirmed" gave no indication as to where/how.
So, I guess that means that my word is right up there with "some random drive-by poster"? OK.

David, if you just became the sole supplier for Michael's; where would it be posted so any other framer could go read it for themselves?
How long before a Michael's associate would fire up a Hitmail account and post it on the G?
How long before you start hearing your samples hitting the floor?

I'm more curious as to what will happen to documonts... not that that effects me or who I deal with . . but it's an interesting purchase.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the Pacific NW is an extremely tight knit group of framers. They are also sensitive to who buys who and who's in bed with whom. I have vivid memories of 1988 when people were stripping dozens of square feet of Juhl Pacific samples off their walls when Larson bought them.
I didn't expect to see that ever again . . . and then they jumped in bed with JoAnne's. I guess I still haven't seen everything yet. So here I wait. :shrug:
I'm just happy that Starbucks hasn't bought out Tully's. :icon11:
 

LeighAnn

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
My LJ sales rep sent me an email stating that starting May 11 LJ will be opening up a New Portland Warehouse where we can go to pick up mats, glass and foam. The next paragraph is directly from her email:

I'm sure you're wondering how we made this happen. Larson Juhl has acquired Documounts.com(founded in 1984)which is an on-line wholesalebusiness offering framing solutions for large volumeartists and photographers located in Portland. By acquiring Documounts we will have a local warehouse up and running by May 11th.

So I guess it's "confirmed" now.


 

CAframer

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
My LJ sales rep sent me an email stating that starting May 11 LJ will be opening up a New Portland Warehouse where we can go to pick up mats, glass and foam. The next paragraph is directly from her email:

I'm sure you're wondering how we made this happen. Larson Juhl has acquired Documounts.com(founded in 1984)which is an on-line wholesalebusiness offering framing solutions for large volumeartists and photographers located in Portland. By acquiring Documounts we will have a local warehouse up and running by May 11th.

So I guess it's "confirmed" now.


Hardly "wholesale" ... this is from Documounts website:
Documounts creates and delivers everything you need to mat and frame your own artwork at home. We specialize in custom cut and pre-cut mats, backing materials and frames. Because we sell through our catalog and web based channels exclusively, we are able to keep our prices at wholesale levels but still deliver retail level customer service and support.
 

Bob Doyle

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
So let's see if LJ competes or closes down the retail aspect of Documents. Maybe they bought it to get a warehouse.
 

Julia

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
The larger concern here should be what will happen to Framer's Inventory?
Just curious,
Julia
 

Rob Smith

Grumbler
do not worry about framers, they are all over it!!!!!
and yes do not worry about documounts as your compitition. watch more for when they buy NWF in 3-5 years, considering their CEO is very pro Larson( x head larson honcho).
thats my 2 cents of opion
 

BILL WARD

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
"Maybe they bought it to get a warehouse."

never bought a warehouse but I kinda suspect that it's a whole lot cheaper to build/buy "JUST" a warehouse(especially in this economy) than it is to buy a going/profitble(suposedly) BUSINESS ! (there's all those messy things envolved like firing all those currently hi paid employees[and paying those-now extended-unemp fees!!!] so you can hire new ones at much lower rates, junking the current enventories/machinery/truck/cars etc-so ypur new stuff can be set inplace)..that being said, why would they NOT keep the 'old' busines going and simply add onto the warehouse/delivery end for LJ biz?????
Only thing about this that puzzels me is why they(and others) havent done this long time back?
 

Julia

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Hey Rob:
My husband and I talked about that very thing (buyout of NW Framing).
What would Terry do?
Nice to see you on the Grumble!
Julia
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Got this from my rep this morning. It appears they aren't cutting into our "retail" business, just our "wholesale" business. Cold comfort.

"We did not purchase Beards, Northwest Framing or Frame Central. We purchased a division of their company, Documounts.com. This is a B2B (business to business) company vs a company that has a retail operation.

As I understand it, Documounts.com primary focus has been for wholesale customers that want quantities of photographs or prints, mounted and prepared for independent photographers and artists, with some basic chopped framing options. Documounts has been in business for quite some time, but most of us are only now realizing that they ever existed."
 

Bob Doyle

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
E-Tail not retail. Also Pseudo wholesale, like the artists that want the discount that we complain about.
 

Thedra

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
They are still selling to the enduser if you look at the site. Prices they quote are nowhere near "wholesale" prices. Some I would love to get from my customers!!!

Tom
 

alaskanframer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Larson & Juhl Rep E-mailed me here is her responce

Thanks Brian for the input,

I just want to clarify some questions I been receiving about acquiring Documounts.com. We did not purchase Beards, Northwest Framing or Frame Central. We purchased a division of their company, Documounts.com.

Larson Juhl's core business is manufacturing and distributing warehouse framing and art supplies to customers that have a retail store front. We are not going into the retail market. This was not announced until Monday, so I'm not sure who posted it on Friday. There also seems to be some very inaccurate rumors going around.

This company was a division of NW Framing and has been doing business for quite some time with photographers or artists that need prints for "Art in the Park" or "Saturday Market" type of shows. This was designed to be an addition to our Art My Style (aka Artaissance) program and not to impact any retail framing business. In conjunction with this acquisition, Larson Juhl will be opening up a satellite warehouse in Portland and that appears to be upsetting some of our competitors. This will not change any of your order fulfillment.

Let me know if you need more clarification.






"Frames & Things" <framesnthings@acsalaska.net>
05/06/2009 11:13 AM
To <Kaarin_Hedberg@larsonjuhl.com>
cc
Subject







Kaarin I was on the grumble today and this was a post is this true or just a rumor.
"As of Friday, Larson Juhl has purchased Documounts, which is an online retail framing supplier. Documounts was a division of NW Framing which owns Beards, Museum Quality, and Frame Central in Oregon and Washington."
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I guess that the only thing to do is cut off your nose to spite your face and stop doing business with them. After all, those Documents.com wholesale customers were beating down your doors. :p
 

couture's gallery

PFG, Picture Framing God
It's a conspiracy...LJ is trying to get TOO BIG TO FAIL so they can get some Obama $$$$...?????
 

PicturedFramer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
:soapbox:Ok so the senario continues. Lj is in competition with all of us no matter where the artists are- east or west - south or north- it's on the
world wide web-.www! So I am to assume that (from the email by LJ rep)
Museum Quality Framing is part of LJ. My competitor down the street. Ethical? No, of course not. How can we be sure to believe LJ about their posting they didn't buy Beards, Frame Central or NW Framing? Why would...." Documounts and it parent organization Northwest Framing which owns and operates the largest group of retail and commercial frame shops in the Pacific Northwest. These include Northwest Framing Commercial, Museum Quality Framing, Beards Framing and Frame Central...." LJ just buy the online part? Probably the most profitable part of the whole deal? Or the better question is why would NW Framing give it up? I am upset that LJ is in competition with me around the corner! By under cutting us in price- whose the winner here? BE VERY CAREFUL AND DON'T DRINK THE COOL AID! IS LARSON JUHL IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IN COMPETITION WITH YOU EITHER ON THE WEB OR ON THE STREET? YOU BET.
PF:vomit::fire:
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have never dealt with Larson Juhl so I don't have anything to say about their products or servicing, good or bad. I'm a home based framer so I never will have any direct dealings with them - I will admit that they did not respond to the many phone calls I left when I was starting up my business and therefore if they ever would come to my shop I would show them the same respect as they showed me - none. I will never carry their products if I can help it, and I have never, in the years I've been in business, had a customer request Larson Juhl moulding and/or materials - lets face it, their name is not known outside the art/photo/framing industry. As far as their selling on line, I can't stop them so I'm not willing to waste my time worring about it, I don't believe it will harm my business, if it does I will find some way to deal with it.
 

DTWDSM

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
To continue the "I guess" statements.....

I guess that if business is that slow that you are really worried that LJ bought a company that most, if not all, of us had even heard of before Friday....you really need to devote your time to your business instead of complaining about stupid stuff here on the G.

Deal with LJ or not, it's your choice but to be worried about this instead of concentrating on your own business is just plain stupid!

Let the arrows fly....
 

climbingclouds

Grumbler in Training
:soapbox:So I am to assume that (from the email by LJ rep) Museum Quality Framing is part of LJ. :
LJ has not purchased Museum Quality Framing. Just a division of NW Framing. This gives LJ the opportunity to open a satellite WH in the Portland area. My guess is anybody that currently orders from LJ should see a faster turn time on receiving materials. This would put them in direct competition with Framers Inventory.

Jerm
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
This is all getting so predictable. Maybe we should do a G version of Jepordy where we lists the sides and opinions and guess the crises.

The answer is....They do, they don't. I'm mad becuase they are. Don't worry about it worry about your business. THey are great. I hate them.

The question....Is LJ is selling direct?

DING DING DING.
 
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