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Masterpiece Glass Came In

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
A customer brought in a piece of "Museum Glass" from Aaron Brothers today. He paid $40 for a 20 x 24. We charged him the normal $17, DIY fitting fee for frames brought in, and an 8 ply mat, new backing. This glass, when held up to the light, reflects back pink. Not green, pink. and there is more glare to it. HOW can they get away with callling this Museum Glass. I told the customer, a young college age kid, he did not get Museum Blass. He really didn't care.:fire:
 
888

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
I know we have talked about this on a previous thread, but I thought they were referring to this glass as Masterpiece Glass. They sold this customer a product they said was Museum Glass. It clearly wasn't.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...I thought they were referring to this glass as Masterpiece Glass. They sold this customer a product they said was Museum Glass. It clearly wasn't.
Are you saying now that Tru-Vue has been telling the truth all along? That Masterpiece Glass is not the same as Museum Glass?

This could become an interesting thread.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Maybe it is Jim. That leaves me wondering even more, why don't we get a stab at it?

If I were going to gamble, I'd say its the exact same product with a much cheaper price and fancy name. If its different, then why woudln't they want to sell more of it? I mean a guy like me will never ever believe in that muesum hoax. But hey, if they could sell me a similar product for way more than I'm paying for CC, why wouldn't they want to get that in my hands?
 

Mike Labbe

Member, Former moderator team volunteer
The customer may also be mistaken, unless you saw it on their slip? That price is suspiciously about twice as much as our area's norm for CC glass, which is typical of the big boxes before the coupon game. According to the website, AB offers 7 types of glazing.

If you do the math, the $40 would be close to MG COST, not including labor. Something is amiss. I wonder if they bought a "better" glazing, but not necessarily the "best" the framer sold.

Could this be possible?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...If I were going to gamble, I'd say its the exact same product with a much cheaper price and fancy name.?
That was the speculation in the original thread. According to the manufacturer, and according to what Kirstie just said, you would be wrong. Maybe it is all just a big conspiracy to make you lose a gamble.

...a guy like me will never ever believe in that muesum hoax...
Never is a long time. Your decision seems to be an emotional one, but not a reasoned one. If you do have reasoning to support your decision, would you care to share it?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
A couple of years ago there was an optically coated, anti-reflection glass offered by Knight Industries, but I think it is no longer available. It had multi-color, oil-on-water sort of reflections that seemed to vary with differences of ambient light. Could this be a remnant of that ill-fated product?

Who knows? Maybe the Chinese have half-way succeeded in knocking off Museum Glass. You know they would like to, and half-way might be good enough for some, if the price is right.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Kirstie-I think we might be missing this young student's point

I don't think he didn't care at all; but that he didn't care that we are making such a big deal out of this

Can we stipulate this much?

This product, under any name, was "better" than reg glass for clarity and reflection and probably had a better UV protection

It also had less refelction and probably as good a UV filtration as Con Clear

It probably had better clarity and sharper image than a non-glare product

And, the kid probably saved a bunch of money on what fit his need as a better product than everything else he saw

I'm guessing that what he didn't care about was the hub-bub we were making and I'll bet he cared a lot more about the $17 than anything else

In college-talk, that's about a week's worth of eats at Taco Bell

I really believe that the percentage of clients that "care" about stuff like this is less than we think and that our ire is really mis-directed

We keep telling each other how unfair this is.

Of the three participants in this equation, Tru-Vue, A Bros and the consumer, we want to blame the latter two

As a consumer, I don't think the kid did anything unexpected

As a retailer, someone offers me a clear buying advantage, accepting it is pretty much a no brainer

As a manufacturer that relies upon a segment for it's highest margin sales by consistently telling me how important which product they want me to buy is (at the highest price) by creating "guilt" might be worthy of another look

Many of us refuse to sell reg glass, but they offer it by the mega truckloads

Masterpice, schmasterpiece

It's a better product than all other products (s ave Museum) at a price we can not approach; I would love to buy it an doffer it a price close to A Bros (and much less than what you sell Mus Glass)

It' all about a competitive stance

And, all about what consumers think

This college kid, I think, represent a much larger "common opinion"

If i were to look for a problem here, it might be that A Bros let this guy out of the store

My next problem would be charging $17 for a 20x24 8 ply mat, backing and fitting

Kirstie-you impress me as a really good operator-What am I missing about $17?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Are you saying now that Tru-Vue has been telling the truth all along? That Masterpiece Glass is not the same as Museum Glass?

This could become an interesting thread.
Here's what happened:

Customer calls for our Museum Glass price on a 20 x 24 piece. I gave it to him. Hours later he appears with Aaron B's frame in hand and a boxed piece of glass which he says is Museum Glass. We helped him to fit the piece in our shop with the usual charges. The glass looked slightly orange on the side the way MG does. When I held up the finished piece on the wall next to our Museum Glass samples, the reflection on his piece was decidedly pink rather than green, and I thought I saw more glare in his glass, but this might have been subjective. I couldn't haul it all over the shop testing it in different locations. I asked him if they said it was Museum Glass and he said yes. His price was about 25% of what I would have charged for MG.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
My next problem would be charging $17 for a 20x24 8 ply mat said:
Oh no, Bob, the $17 per frame, is just our charge for people who bring in frames from elsewhere and want to use our tables, tools, hardware, and help. We sold him the 8 ply rag mat and ACFC backer separately.

When customers buy a RM at our shop we waive the supply/table space charge.

What annoyed me was not the product he brought in, but the fact that the seller was calling it MG. I lost a MG sale and probably a RM frame sale because of a phone call to ABros comparing my MG price to thiers.

I wish I could buy it too. Its TV who infuriate me, not the customer, and not the nice kids who work at ABros. I looked on the ABros site, and of course, they protect themselves. They say they sell UV glass and anti reflective glass, which they compare to eyeglass optical coating.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
The common opinion among my customers is that when the buy MG from me they are getting a superior product. They feel they are paying for something really special. And yes, I wish I could sell more at a lower price.

I have signed up for the Secret Shopper program offered by TV and have told my staff that whoever offers the Secret Shopper MG gets to keep the $75.

Sweet marketing move by TV.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
So, Kirstie, if that product were available at a 75% discount from what you pay for MG glass, wouldn't we all want it?

Thanks for clearing up the $17 mystery; I knew you were better than what was implied

Bottom line: This college kid is our future customer and he is developing his shopping "traits" right now. The good news is that you got a piece of that action

How many of us would have lost it all because of that great price?

This might be a great topic of illustration on my next panel

It speaks volumes of the dilemna in the marketplace facing we independents unless I am the only one that sees it that way
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I think it's very cool that you charge a $17 "corkage" fee for people that bring in their own frames for you to work with. I've thought about doing this, but haven't taken the plunge yet. How much resistance to it do you get? How do you explain/justify the charge to your customers?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
... Its TV who infuriate me, not the customer, and not the nice kids who work at ABros...
Certainly, the customer is in the middle, unfamiliar with terms, and may be incorrect about who said what. But Kirstie, was it not the "nice kids who work at ABros" who misled your customer?

Since you are "infuriated with TV", you called them to complain, right? How did Tru-Vue respond when you told them your story? Their position seems to be consistent with what you said, so how are they at fault?
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jim, did your quote button quit working as you stopped quoting me when you got the fruit of my point!

I think Bob nailed my point exactly when he asks, "...if that product were available at a 75% discount from what you pay for MG glass, wouldn't we all want it?"

My answer to that is “YES PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!”

When I recall all your cookie cutter responses to this topic, I can't remember one for this. Perhaps they just haven't fed you your opinion yet.

I can't respect them selling a product so similar (cause we all know it’s slightly different) at such a drastic discount and then eliminating me from buying it. Why would they not sell to me? Why not let my customers and I decided its value. Do I need to call them to confirm that they won't sell to me? My supplier certainly can't get it and YES I did ask so I guess that settles it all huh?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Certainly, the customer is in the middle, unfamiliar with terms, and may be incorrect about who said what. But Kirstie, was it not the "nice kids who work at ABros" who misled your customer?

Since you are "infuriated with TV", you called them to complain, right? How did Tru-Vue respond when you told them your story? Their position seems to be consistent with what you said, so how are they at fault?
I'm annoyed (note that a day later the furious has calmed down a bit) because they sell this product to the bbs and won't sell something similar to us. The kids at A Bros are just calling the product what thier superiors have told them to call it. I doubt they even know the difference. My own staff didn't until I held it up next to a piece of our MG. And Yes, I will call TV. This incident happened yesterday, Saturday. Do you really think they are going to talk to me about what the bbs sell? Doubt it.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I think it's very cool that you charge a $17 "corkage" fee for people that bring in their own frames for you to work with. I've thought about doing this, but haven't taken the plunge yet. How much resistance to it do you get? How do you explain/justify the charge to your customers?
I simply tell people that there is a small charge to cover our help, table space and supplies. If the customer wants to take his cut mat home to fit it then we don't charge the $17. It is the customer's choice to use our space and pay for it. We have very few custom jobs with frames brought in. They are almost all DIY. During the process, usually while they are cleaning their glass or something, we let them know that next time if they choose our ready mades, there is no extra charge for help and space. I've had very few complaints. We treat them just like our own customers, because they are, and we want their business back.

Corkage--I love it! I'll have to tell the staff.

My dear friend Sandy Kirby who is not longer in the framing biz ( The Framing Shop at 1020 Clement St.) used to say, "If you took your own steak to a restaurant, would you expect them to cook it?"
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Bottom line: This college kid is our future customer and he is developing his shopping "traits" right now. The good news is that you got a piece of that action

How many of us would have lost it all because of that great price?

This might be a great topic of illustration on my next panel

It speaks volumes of the dilemna in the marketplace facing we independents unless I am the only one that sees it that way
I do have young customers who will pay full price custom without a blink. Not high end, but good in volume. Today I had a young man come in with a collectible poster, 22 x 32. He was not the kind of customer who wanted fabric mats and liners, and museum glass with water guilded frames.
He did not even want a mat, and he was very happy with a wide black frame, UV acrylic, ACFC backer and the free fitting he got with this month's e-mail coupon. Total, $177. And I was glad to sell it to him. This customer was one step up from the ready made kid, but if we are lucky those kids will evolve into this customer, and this one, as he gets older and has more to spend, into the full blown custom client.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Do you really think they are going to talk to me about what the bbs sell? Doubt it.
Of coarse they won't. After about 10 minutes of research I found ONE and only ONE reference to this glass on the internet. It was on Michael’s webpage. TruVue makes no mention of it that I could find. However on Michael’s page where they discuss Masterpiece just exactly like we do its overpriced cousin, it clearly says "Courtesy of Tru Vue®".

If they really wanted you to have information on this product it would be on their website. There is more information than 10 people can digest about all their other products. Heck there is a 3 page PDF with twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each glass does. (sorry I had an Alice's Restaurant flashback). Lets just say they go through great detail explaining their products and how and when to use em.

Maybe masterpiece isn't mentioned because you ain't going to be getting any of it! That's why you don't need to know more about it! I’m sure that on the phone they will be more than happy to further confuse the situation.
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
I would be willing to bet that if the product was available to me at the price the bbs pay for it, I could talk at least half of my customers into it.

I could easily sale 3 to 5 boxes a week of it. Easily.

It is not just Tru-Vue doing it to us. The same behavior can be found from Neilson,Bainbridge,Nurre.

When we all are gone, and at the rate we are dropping it will happen, can these manufacturers make it on Michaels alone? If they can't, they will be gone too. I guess they just don't see that.
 

erick

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
As one of the AB "Kids", I have to say that what we sell is Museum Glass indeed. It comes in a Tru View box with purple printing that says "Museum Glass". When I hold it at an angle to the light, the reflections have a purple-pinkish tint. When I compare it next to the other Tru View glass types, it is definately clearer and has less glare. It's not completely invisible, I'll give you that, but it looks better than anything else I've seen.

I'm curious as to what brand you carry that has "greenish" tinted reflections. I'm also wondering if Tru View is sending Aaron Bros. something different but in the same box..

What I can confirm is that nobody at the store level is engaged in any kind of deception. Beyond that, I have no information for ya.
 

TGFU

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I've seen purple & pink tints to some of the museum glass that I've used too. I have a piece in my home that is framed with museum glass. Regardless of the time of the day and how the light hits it, it still shows up purple.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
When I recall all your cookie cutter responses to this topic, I can't remember one for this. Perhaps they just haven't fed you your opinion yet.
In all fairness, Jim's not going to bite the hand that feeds him now or may in the future.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
As one of the AB "Kids", I have to say that what we sell is Museum Glass indeed. It comes in a Tru View box with purple printing that says "Museum Glass". When I hold it at an angle to the light, the reflections have a purple-pinkish tint. When I compare it next to the other Tru View glass types, it is definately clearer and has less glare. It's not completely invisible, I'll give you that, but it looks better than anything else I've seen.

I'm curious as to what brand you carry that has "greenish" tinted reflections. I'm also wondering if Tru View is sending Aaron Bros. something different but in the same box..

What I can confirm is that nobody at the store level is engaged in any kind of deception. Beyond that, I have no information for ya.
The brand with the "greenish" tinted reflection is Tru Vue's Museum.

Looks like Eric's statement about the box pretty much puts to rest the argument of what they're selling and what they're calling it.

The only deception going on in this saga is perpetrated by Tru Vue.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
As one of the AB "Kids", I have to say that what we sell is Museum Glass indeed. It comes in a Tru View box with purple printing that says "Museum Glass". When I hold it at an angle to the light, the reflections have a purple-pinkish tint. When I compare it next to the other Tru View glass types, it is definately clearer and has less glare. It's not completely invisible, I'll give you that, but it looks better than anything else I've seen.

I'm curious as to what brand you carry that has "greenish" tinted reflections. I'm also wondering if Tru View is sending Aaron Bros. something different but in the same box..

What I can confirm is that nobody at the store level is engaged in any kind of deception. Beyond that, I have no information for ya.
All I can say is Tru Vue is sending you a different product, because everything we get reflects back green. If it was MG, then the ABros prices are so incredibly low that TV must be giving it to you! Sorry, but I just don't understand this. If they are boxing Masterpiece Glass in Museum Glass cases then this would indeed be deception. Does anyone have a contact at Tru Vue who can clear this up, because they owe it to the independent frame shop. How can we do business with a product wich costs 4 times as much and has the same name?

BTW, we saw no flaws in the glass and we looked at it really carefully as we helped the customer clean it.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
My call to TruVue revealed this informatiion:

The glass they sell to Michaels has "lower specs" than Museum Glass and is called Masterpiece Glass. It may have minor flaws and cannot be sold to independent framers. Michaels is supposed to call it Masterpiece Glass. She did not know what they sell to Aaron Brothers and she knew nothing about what colors reflect back. I reminded her that Aaron Brothers is owned by Michaels.

A manager is calling me back. Stay tuned.
 

Cretin75

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
That's odd.

We also get Tru Vue Museum glass, in purple writting on the box, the edges of the glass are a orange-ish color and the reflections is a more purple-ish tint, not green. I see green reflected in the Cons Reg class and the crappy Reflection control glass. And I'm at Joanns.

Everyone elses that doesn't work at a BB, their Museum glass reflects green?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
That's odd.

We also get Tru Vue Museum glass, in purple writting on the box, the edges of the glass are a orange-ish color and the reflections is a more purple-ish tint, not green. I see green reflected in the Cons Reg class and the crappy Reflection control glass. And I'm at Joanns.

Everyone elses that doesn't work at a BB, their Museum glass reflects green?
You are describing the product that came in from Aaron Bros. Same stuff.
Hmm... Still waiting for that manager's call.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
A customer brought in a piece of "Museum Glass" from Aaron Brothers today. He paid $40 for a 20 x 24. We charged him the normal $17, DIY fitting fee for frames brought in, and an 8 ply mat, new backing. This glass, when held up to the light, reflects back pink. Not green, pink. and there is more glare to it. HOW can they get away with callling this Museum Glass. I told the customer, a young college age kid, he did not get Museum Blass. He really didn't care.:fire:
OK, I'm finally in front of my point of sale and my price lists. Museum Glass comes in a 24x36 size, 4 lites to a case, for $225 from LJ. That comes to $56 wholesale for one lite, and that's the closest size from which you can get a 20x24 piece. So wholesale for a bit more than half that lite is, let's say, $35. And AB is selling that at a $5 markup?? :help:
 

Twin2

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I just looked at a small piece that I had from my 3 lite (32x40) case of Tru Vue's Museum glass, and it too had orange-ish edge and reflected pink/purple-ish colours. I don't see any green reflection at all. I don't work at a BB, I'm an independent framing business. I am certainly NOT paying BB prices for the glass (it is almost too expensive here in Nova Scotia for me to buy!) Does that mean I'm getting 'Masterpiece' glass at Museum prices??:eek:
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
I've seen purple & pink tints to some of the museum glass that I've used too. I have a piece in my home that is framed with museum glass. Regardless of the time of the day and how the light hits it, it still shows up purple.

Ah, but you are at The Great Frame Up. Is a pattern emerging here?
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I'm also at The Great Frame Up. I don't order my glass from TV, I order it from Larson-Juhl. I have a hard time believing that they keep separate stocks of Museum Glass at their distribution centers, one containing real Museum Glass, and one containing "Museum Glass." And if they are, why am I paying so much for it?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Kirstie, I'm also at The Great Frame Up. I don't order my glass from TV, I order it from Larson-Juhl. I have a hard time believing that they keep separate stocks of Museum Glass at their distribution centers, one containing real Museum Glass, and one containing "Museum Glass." And if they are, why am I paying so much for it?
It sounds like independent framers need a huge buying co-op, like independent grociers.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
OK, I'm finally in front of my point of sale and my price lists. Museum Glass comes in a 24x36 size, 4 lites to a case, for $225 from LJ. That comes to $56 wholesale for one lite, and that's the closest size from which you can get a 20x24 piece. So wholesale for a bit more than half that lite is, let's say, $35. And AB is selling that at a $5 markup?? :help:
And most of that leftover will be wasted. This is another problem--not enough sizes.
 

Val

PFG, Picture Framing God
I picked up a piece of Masterpiece from M's yesterday. Orangish edges and purplish reflection. Looks identical to the Museum Glass I have in stock here.

What happened to the explanation that TV told some uf us awhile back on that other thread that "Masterpiece Glass is privately-labeled-for-Michaels Museum Glass....same identical glass".

Kirstie, we can now get Museum glass form LJ in 16x20 (3 lites), 18x24 (8 llites), 24x36 (4 lites), 32x40 (in boxes of 3, 6, or 1 lite) 36x48 (2 lites), and 40x60 (2 lites). I don't throw away any museum "scraps" larger than 4", and carefully wrap that and use it to upgrade from ConsClear on the smaller pieces....get 'em hooked on it!
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
It sounds like independent framers need a huge buying co-op, like independent grociers.
Absolutely. That's how ACE Hardware stores have managed to survive for so long against Homeless Despot and Lowes.

And yes, there's a big waste factor with Museum Glass, no matter how carefully I try to wrap it back up. So a $5 markup is hardly adequate. If that full 24x36 lite of MG costs me $56, then I should charge $56 for a 20x24 piece of that. And then some.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Answer from TruVue

I got a call back from a manager at TruVue:

The mineral coating on various layers on each peice or run of MG differs slightly and this difference can be seen in the color of the light reflection, which can vary from green to pink.

Michael's buys glass labeled as Masterpiece Glass and is supposed to be selling the prodect by that name. It even says Masterpiece right on the side of the glass.

Aaron Brothers is shipped the same quality Museum Glass that independent framers get. Tru Vue has no idea why Aaron Brothers sold the glass at such a low price. He said it was not consistent with what their own independent market research has shown and he wonders if my customer was sold a leftover piece on sale.

I called another A Bros and was given a price of $61. for a 20 x 24 piece of MG. Still very low. I guess this is called buying power.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Absolutely. That's how ACE Hardware stores have managed to survive for so long against Homeless Despot and Lowes.

And yes, there's a big waste factor with Museum Glass, no matter how carefully I try to wrap it back up. So a $5 markup is hardly adequate. If that full 24x36 lite of MG costs me $56, then I should charge $56 for a 20x24 piece of that. And then some.
I'm sure the manufacturer would like us to mark the product up only double but honestly, with the extra work and waste involved, this would be a money loser for me. This is not a normal retail product that just walks out the door. Why would I mark this product up less than other glass? Makes no sense.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
In all fairness, Jim's not going to bite the hand that feeds him now or may in the future.
Jim is flattered that you think "the hand that feeds him" holds anything of significant value, but he's also offended that you think his opinion is for sale. It is not. As for money, that "hand that feeds him" concept hardly amounts to a light snack for this small independent framer.

Jim owes nothing to any supplier, except honest opinions. His reactions would be the same if any other of his favorite suppliers were being so unfairly treated.

To wit, the unreasonable expectation:
"I would be willing to bet that if the product was available to me at the price the bbs pay for it, I could talk at least half of my customers into it.
I could easily sale 3 to 5 boxes a week of it. Easily."


And I bet we could sell more frames if Larson-Juhl sold us moulding for JoAnn's prices, too. Can you picture that happening? It would be unreasonable to think any supplier of any framing product would give any customer "buying 3 to 5 boxes a week" prices similar to those of a customer buying 3 to 5 truckloads a week, or whatever their real usage is.

To wit, the blind prejudice:
"Maybe masterpiece isn't mentioned because you ain't going to be getting any of it! That's why you don't need to know more about it!"

Do you seriously want that product to be listed/described/promoted on the manufacturer's web site? How would that benefit any of us? If Tru-Vue did publicize that product, small independent framers would have a legitimate complaint about the manufacturer promoting a product sold only by one of our strongest competitors. As it is, their web site promotes only the products we can sell.
 

TGFU

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Everyone elses that doesn't work at a BB, their Museum glass reflects green?
No...as I stated above, I've had some reflect purple, and I'm an independent. Maybe I got some of the Masterpiece by mistake???
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Do you seriously want that product to be listed/described/promoted on the manufacturer's web site?
Its already being listed/described/promoted as a quote directly from this manufacturer. It's being promoted exactly as we do the more expensive close relative also.

How would that benefit any of us?
There wouldn't be such confusion.

If Tru-Vue did publicize that product, small independent framers would have a legitimate complaint about the manufacturer promoting a product sold only by one of our strongest competitors.
This is where I don't think you might not be giving this honest consideration. TV has supplied all the verbage for a product that very closely resembles one they sell to us for a drastically higher price. I wonder why TV wouldn't just sell them the glass under a different name. Ya know how Folgers sells repackaged coffee labeled "Kroger Brand"? To me using the respected name "TruVUe" to sell such a premium product as such an aggressive price then exclude me is unfair. Certainly isn't worthy of an accommodation.

Do you really feel they are being treated unfairly? How so?
 

realhotglass

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I've been selling various types of glass to framers in Australia for over 10 years, not Museum (that's a LJ supplied product here in Aus too).

EVERY piece of Museum I've ever seen have a definite blue / slightly purple hue in any reflection left.
Never anything even close to pink or green or yellow.

Denglas and DenglasUV had a yellow / green hue, but alas Denton Tech stopped production and sold all the equipment / IP some 6 months ago at auction (hopefully to someone that will again bring it back into production).

From my understanding of Masterpiece, it is reject / not to usual standards of Museum, so possible the multiple coatings to reduce glare can be applied slightly incorrect at times, and produce different colours ???
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Right now, assuming no waste factor and figuring my price per square inch a 20X24 Museum glass buying in an 8 pak is costing me $ 21.68. I say right now because this is a limited time offer through a local distributor. I would assume AB has the buying power to purchase at this or better pricing everyday.

I would consider Kirstie's example an aberration since a call to AB gave a $ 61.00 quote for a 20X24. If AB is buying at a similar or better price than what my present deal is then indeed they could sell a 20X24 Museum glass somewhat profitably for $ 61.00 especially if they are not installing the glass.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...To me using the respected name "TruVUe" to sell such a premium product as such an aggressive price then exclude me is unfair...
Aw, shucks, Jay. You feel left out? That's too bad, because if you wanted to buy several hundred boxes of glass per week on a long term contract, I guess they would be pleased as punch to work with you, too.

Why in the world would they want to exclude you, one of the largest buyers in the world of framing glass? They could improve profitability and reduce their scrap rate by running the production lines a little faster and inspecting yours (and only yours) from across the room.

What do you mean by "..such an aggressive price"? They know they wouldn't have to cut the price much, because they own the market and you couldn't buy anything like it anywhere else. They'd be selling you a better product (which you've always wanted) probably at a higher price than you ever paid for glass before (which they've always wanted).

Heck, with a sweet deal like that they might be willing call it whatever you want, and maybe they'd promise not to sell it to anyone else, too -- especially if you promise not to publicly compare it to their flagship product.

But then, some framer buying a few boxes a week would probably feel left out because he couldn't buy your glass at your price. And he'd probably be confused because you don't want anybody to promote your product except you.

Nah. You're probably right. That could never work.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Jim-I must say that Jay has a valid, if sarcastic, point

I do a little "advisory" work for a few folks in our industry; they want a retailer's perspective, stuff like that. One thing we do see are these Faustian deals with the Devil

Does anyone remember my story about the readymade reseller that was so heavily in bed with Big Boxes that he lost virtually all his medium and small retailer biz (at significantly higher margins?) He would bring in a freighter full of product with 30% to be sold to the llikes of you and me and those additional margins made it possible to offer the razor thin margins to the 400lb gorillas. Losing that 30% crowd resulted in a dropping of overall margin (retailers call that a shift in Balance of Sale, but it doesn't apply tp picture framers) creating a Chap 11 scenario

Print publishers are doing the same thing with amazingly predictable results. They are selling large enough qtys to .Coms at unheard of discounts and that same print that used to be sold to you you and I at 50% and 50/20% is now being sold to Bubba's.com at 50/50/20%. But Bubba's isn't creating 40% more new sales, but only 10%. In the meanwhile, Sally's Print Palace is buying less and less (or going out of biz) creating another dramatic shift in Balance of opps, I forgot that doesn't apply

So, the TV's of our industry are doing the exact same thing but they are laying on an extra level of guilt upon us that if we do not sell this premium product then we are not premium framers; that we are doing a disservice to our customers

So, my open question to them might be if lowering my price on Mus Glass is a great way to sell more glass to my customers generating more gross profit, the why don't they do the same for their customer, ME?

And, if there might be a disservice to anyone's customer, where does my relationship with them enter the equation

Faustian bargain, indeed

Repackage it anyway you want; change the name, change the graphics on the box. If ABros can sell for less than you can buy, then I do not care what Scale of Economy anyone brings to the table, that is not a fair playing field

These thoughts are my own; do not reflect any position from any trade organization and I will gladly and openly discuss this with anyone

It's just an unfair position for independents framers to be fighting
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Very eloquently said, Bob.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Yes, Bob, that is terrific only I wasn't being sarcastic.

Jim, even you suggest this product isn't the same as MG even though It is being advertised EXACTLY as MG with out the name "museum". I don't really care who is paying what for Masterpiece glass. If the product is similar to MG but priced less, for whatever reason, I would like the opportunity to sell it. Even if 20% cheaper than MG, I'm sure its sales would rapidly compete with MG.

I would compare it to alpha boards and rags. I for one am glad we have an option between paper and rags.

It's slight of hand by discussing price or units. I'm not nor have I ever suggested that TV should sell me xxxxxx at $xx.xx because so-and-so gets it for that. You know that and I think your diverting the discussion. What I am suggesting is that if this product is indeed different, then give me a stab at it!

If it's the same product, and I believe it is, and they are using smaller shops to subsidize the cost then I'm sure they will follow the same path that Bob describes. To insult my intelligence with foolish notions like "we only sell MG to frame shops" and "well its not exactly the same glass" then I would welcome that fate for purely selfish reasons.
 
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