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Masterpiece Glass Came In

erick

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Wow, that's a lotta posts since I was last at this thread.

I was thinking about this discussion yesterday while framing in my shop (still at the BB for the rest of this week, not in my own shop till next week). I happened to pull out some of the museum glass for an order and noticed the reflection being green-- I had posted way back at the beginning here that I usualy see pink/purple reflections.

I found that if I hold it up at eye level and observe the glare, it's green, but if I hold it at waist level, the reflections are purple. Just never noticed that before.

And I still hold that Aaron Bros. sells the real deal Museum Glass, in case anyone was still thinking it was something else sold under a deceptive name. I realy don't think there's any deception going on at any level, just a little confusion over what is what.

A quick question though: what sizes is the MG available to the indy stores? I think I heard a manager bragging once that AB can get it in some smaller sizes that are unavailable to other stores, whichmay play a big part in their ability to sell it cheaper.
 

stud d

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I think the next poll is How many people on this thread that have complained have had this product right infront of them??? I am guessing like 2/60??? It is all hearsay. If we are so concerned would a few minutes going over to one of these stores and educating ourselves on this matter help? I am going to be honest...I don't know what this is, never seen it, only heard of it in these few threads, and maybe that is why I am not getting that caught up in it. I am sure I am wrong and about 75% of people on this thread have all had the actual product in their hands.

I think the poll idea would be good. Cause I think we are getting crazy over possibly nothing. It has happened before.

PL
 

Harry FKA Harry

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
If anyone here believes that the BBs are buying 'rejects', I have some ocean front property in Arizona I can let you have at a really good price.
YEAH JERRY!

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. I don't beleive for one second that TV is selling them anything other than regular old Museum Glass. The smae stuff we're buying.

So, assuming they are selling them MG, the only problem is that TV is selling it to Michael's for what our suppliers are paying for it. They have eliminated a middle man. Not hard to see how they can sell it for close to what may of us buy it for and still make money. And as much as we may not like it, that is the way it is.

How many truckloads of glass do you think Michael's is buying on a monthly basis as compared to your local supplier? Probably not all that different.
 

Harry FKA Harry

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I'd like to see PFM or Decor visit the plant, take pics & write up an article about how the glass is made - amount of rejects etc etc.
QUOTE]

I assure you, the article from either magazine would not be condeming. WAY too many advertising $$$$$ at stake.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I'd like to see PFM or Decor visit the plant, take pics & write up an article about how the glass is made - amount of rejects etc etc.
Tru-Vue is the only company that has succeeded with this particular optical coating process, which is uniquely suited for coating large sheets of both glass and acrylic. The few others worldwide who produce high quality, optically coated glazing products of any size would surely be delighted to have a close look at the manufacturing process.

I'd say the chances of a major magazine being allowed to photograph that equipment and publish details about that process are roughly one in a million.

But even if that could happen, the nay-sayers here would probably reject such a story, just as they have rejected everything else the maker has said about this issue. To wit: FKA Harry's comment above.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
You're right Jim. Some people will believe what they want inspite of logic and any amount of evidence to the contrary.

Carry on.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Did anyone read Pollyann's posts?

Sure this is one person who has commented on the flaws in Masterpiece Glass and prior to her posts I firmly believed it was the same product also.

I think she's credible and has no reason to mislead us ...or is she part of this life shaking conspiracy?

:party:
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
There is no conspiracy here Dave.

Lets say the big M orders 2 truck loads today but the plant only has enough 'rejects' for 1 truck load.

What comes next? They turn down the order? I doubt it. They short ship and only bill for half the amount? I tend to doubt that too.

In my limited business experience I whole heartedly believe that TruVue would fill the order.

-

If I bought the stuff for what Larson-Juhl pays for it, couldn't I then sell it for about what they do?

It is the same for Crescent paper matboard at Hobby Lobby. When it is on sale, they retail it at $5 per sheet. How much does it cost you?
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jerry, I was forced into needing a board. I bought it at Hobby Lobby for well under $3 with tax. If I used paper boards often, I would buy every one of them at Hobby Lobby.

But ya know what? I'm sure its a COMPLETELY different paper board than I get from my supplier for well over $3 a board. Completely different!!!!!
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I would likely conclude that they would fill the order too just as I would substitute UV Clear glass for a customer if I was out of regular glass on a frame job.

Even if there is no difference at all in the product ...just labeling ...don't you think Tru Vue is doing independent framers well to not let the BB's use the Museum name. All they'd have to do is is say that if you commit to ten truckloads of glass a month then they'd sell to you for the same price

The BB's would then have the exact same product with the exact same name and have the ability to sell it at or near our cost. Wouldn't that be a worse scenario?

Who among us could commit to such a quantity? Do you believe Tru Vue shouldn't sell ten truckloads a month for a significantly better price than they sell one box of lites for?

If you had a customer commit to 1000 frames a month are you saying you would sell those frames at or near the same price you sold them at one by one everyday?
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Shan-Let's see if you can undertand this

"Masterpiece" glass or MG at significantly reduced prices not available (no, demonstrably significant; no, astronomically significantly lower prices) to me are not helathy to my practice

All i see is a giant shell game

Go to the plant? Sure, let's all take a walk through the Enron Acct Dept while we're walking through Fantasy Land

Suppose, tomorrow, a famous matbord company started selling an archival product of mat board called BetaCare that had all the same characteristics as a similar product we all use to the 400lb gorilla on the block

And, up jumped the devil, but the Gorilla was selling this product for less than what you bought it for.

And, of course, my customers saw this difference making my job a little more difficult

Would we make the same arguments?

Don't you dare tell me this is of no significance
 

Mecianne

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
May I offer a suggestion:

 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Jerry, Harry, Bob, Jay, Tru-Vue detractors et al:

1-800-282-8788 is the HelpLine number. You really should call the company and complain. And while you're on that phone call, get your misunderstandings cleared up. For example, Tru-Vue has not claimed that only Museum Glass rejects are sold as Masterpiece Glass.

At least a half-dozen times in the past month or so, Grumblers who have actually taken a few minutes to call the company about this (including me) have posted what Tru-Vue said: Masterpiece glass is manufactured on the same production lines as Museum Glass, but the specifications are different.

When I called and got the same response everyone else got, I asked, "different in what way?" He answered that the tolerances are broader and the inspection criteria are different for Masterpiece glass. Then I asked, "Are you saying that flawed Museum Glass could be sold as Masterpiece glass?" The answer was yes, some of it could be. He also said some Masterpiece glass is as good as Museum Glass. The difference is in the manufacturing tolerances.

The explanation has been the same from Day One of this issue. Only the detractors here have said Tru-Vue claims Masterpiece glass is all rejected Museum Glass, and only rejected Museum Glass. That is wrong.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
..."Masterpiece" glass or MG at significantly reduced prices not available (no, demonstrably significant; no, astronomically significantly lower prices) to me are not helathy to my practice...
There are other things going on in our industry that are more damaging than a supplier name-branding one product and selling it to one customer cheaper than you think they should.

JoAnne actually does sell some Larson-Juhl mouldings at prices lower than my cost. Mats, too. That is not healthy to my practice -- or yours either, presumably. Have we had a thread like this about that sweetheart deal? Did I miss that one?

"...astronomically significantly lower prices" means what? Bob, you have said at least twice in this thread that Michaels' sells Masterpiece glass for less than we can buy it, which is absolutely not true.

I'll say it again: Michaels' cheapest price in my market for 20x24 Masterpiece glass was $57.11, discounted 50% last week. Any USA framer can buy Museum Glass for less than half of that price from any Tru-Vue distributor.

Unlike some of the claims on this thread, that's not speculation, or assumption, or guesswork. It's fact. You can check it yourself in your own market.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Jim-We are too good of friends to allow this to become a distraction

Wecertainly can disagree on this product's marketing impact

I won't respond further on this issue out of my respect to you
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
I would likely conclude that they would fill the order too just as I would substitute UV Clear glass for a customer if I was out of regular glass on a frame job.

Even if there is no difference at all in the product ...just labeling ...don't you think Tru Vue is doing independent framers well to not let the BB's use the Museum name. All they'd have to do is is say that if you commit to ten truckloads of glass a month then they'd sell to you for the same price
Just to clear up a point, some of the bbs DO get Museum Galss. Aaron Bros, for one. They are not sold Masterpiece, but Museum Glass. And it was actually thier prices this thread was started with. They also sell only Artcare--also at or near a price we pay for it. But this instance is a quantitiy deal. The Masterpiece is a different issue entirely. We are talking about a supposedly different product not sold to custom framers.

There are several difference of opinion on this thread, not just one or two.

BTW, what TruVue said to me was that Masterpiece Glass had "lower specs," whatever that means. I didn't ask if it came off the same production line, was a pulled reject (don't think so--too much quantity involved) or what lower specs actually means.

Jim, I'm not up on the Joannes issue because their store near me doesn't sell framing. It seems like this was discussed a lot a while ago. Who owns Joannes? Is it just a quantity deal or is there ownership invovled?
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
JoAnne actually does sell some Larson-Juhl mouldings at prices lower than my cost. Mats, too. That is not healthy to my practice -- or yours either, presumably. Have we had a thread like this about that sweetheart deal? Did I miss that one?
Yes. http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=1962&highlight=joannes


No you didn't miss it. Infact you say: "L-J has spent years building their good reputation for quality and service. Excellence has been the keystone of their very successful growth strategy. Consumer awareness of the L-J brand has also been a worthy achievement. These facts run counter to establishing a national discuonter among their largest customers, I think. I believe associating the Larson Juhl name so closely with JoAnne Stores may thwart growth in other directions."

Why doesn't this reasoning also apply to TruVue? Even if called "Masterpiece" it proudly displays "TRUVUE" along with it.

At least LJ didn't blow a bunch of smoke about "well we sell them mostly flawed moulding and the standards are blah blah blah...."

TruVue has spent years building their good reputation for quality and service. Excellence has been the keystone of their very successful growth strategy. Consumer awareness of the TruVue brand has also been a worthy achievement. These facts run counter to establishing a national discuonter among their largest customers, I think. I believe associating the TruVue name so closely with Michaels Stores may thwart growth in other directions.

Wow that does sound logical!

Carry on.
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...Masterpiece Glass had "lower specs," whatever that means. I didn't ask...what lower specs actually means.
I think it means that when the company accountant was working out the numbers on this deal, he had his glasses perched lower on his nose so he could look over the top at the sales magager sitting accross from him, smiling.
:cool: Rick
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I think it means that when the company accountant was working out the numbers on this deal, he had his glasses perched lower on his nose so he could look over the top at the sales magager sitting accross from him, smiling.
:cool: Rick
Good point Rick. Your explanation is better than mine. I was thinking it meant that most of the black specs were concentrated in the lower part of the lite. I bow to your lucidity.
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Do you remember last year TV wanted everyone to make CC their default glass and offered some sort of promo for trying that out for a while? Now they've got their secret shopper promo going. So next year will we be asked to use MG as our default?

I went to TV s website just now wanting to see what the official line from the company was on masterpiece. Surprisingly their isn't one. On their glazing options pdf it isn't mentioned at one slot below Museum. I did a search in their site for it and it said "Search result: sorry, your search found nothing.". So does it exist? We know that a glass under that name is being sold by our competitors that was sold to them by TV. We are told by a customer service rep on a nonrecorded conversation that it is a lower spec Museum glass but their is no literature to speak of or OFFICIAL company release regarding this product. This is the root of our supposedly unfounded suspicions regarding this product. The reason that we all have our varying opinions regarding masterpiece is that TV doesn't even have an actual spec sheet or even reference to the "product" on their own website. Shadows and speculation is what their giving us so that's what we believe.
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
On another note.....

Am I gonna keep on selling it? #### right I am. I'm not stupid.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I went to TV s website just now wanting to see what the official line from the company was on masterpiece. Surprisingly their isn't one.

The reason that we all have our varying opinions regarding masterpiece is that TV doesn't even have an actual spec sheet or even reference to the "product" on their own website. Shadows and speculation is what their giving us so that's what we believe.
An inside source told me that it is made at a facility in Nevada. I think he called it Area 51.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
An inside source told me that it is made at a facility in Nevada. I think he called it Area 51.
Doug will no longer be participating at The Grumble. I can neither confirm nor deny that men in black suits and sunglasses stopped by his shop shortly after he posted this.

If someone claiming to be Doug Gemmell starts posting here, you should assume that he came out of a pod.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I love Tru Vue
I love Tru Vue
I love Tru Vue
 

pollyann

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Again if Masterpiece is the same as Museum, you must all be wasting alot of time finding good lites to use.

When we started selling it almost 10 months ago, I was told that it was an optical coated glass and the specs to make it are not as high as museum. This was told to us right from day one. After 10 months of using it, I have seen no change in the quality we get it. I go through piece after piece before I find one acceptable to me. I am sure the company hopes that most of there average framers will over look alot of the flaws, unfortunate for them I am not the average M framer. I have heard the complaints about the quality from several other M framers that I talk with from other stores, so it is not just I who feels this way about it.

Just incase you are wondering it comes in boxes marked Masterpiece. The black printing on the bottom of the glass clearly states Masterpiece glass. They sure seem to be going to alot of trouble to make it look like something different. Again if it is in fact Museum glass, with just the name being changed, I wouldn't want Museum glass anymore than I want Masterpiece in my shop.

Just my 2 cents!
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Have the aliens gotten to you too Pollyann? The picture under your name says imaginary. Is that a reference to your true hidden identity?

BTW I just pulled this directly off of Michael's website. It is their description of masterpiece. "Courtesy of Tru Vue"

"The Ultimate Finishing Touch … Glass

Courtesy of Tru Vue®
Add to My Michaels


You are both creative and passionate about the things you frame. We understand the sense of pride you get when you hang that special piece in your home. It’s our commitment to give you the very best, that’s why you count on Michaels.

Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project.

You can be assured that your framed piece will look its very best for a good, long time.

See The Fine Detail
Ordinary glass can mask the beauty of your framed piece. When you use Conservation Masterpiece you can showcase your piece the way it was intended. That’s because the extraordinary anti-reflective properties allow more light to pass through. Now you won’t miss even the smallest detail - from a stitch in clothing to the texture of a piece of fruit.

Experience The Vibrant Colors
Compared to all other glass, Conservation Masterpiece anti-reflection properties allow the greatest amount of light to reach your artwork. The result is brighter, richer colors than ever before to help you enjoy your art the way it was intended.

Eliminate Glare
Conservation Masterpiece has special anti-reflection properties which reduces glare - leaving the glass almost “invisible” to the naked eye. Remember that light bulb or other part of the room you can see when you look at your framed piece? Now you can say “good-bye” to glare and say “hello” to your art.

Preserve Your Artwork
Your framed piece is special to you. And you want your piece to last as long as your memories. That’s why Conservation Masterpiece has the highest UV protection you can get. It helps protect your piece from fading caused by harmful indoor and outdoor lighting. So your good memories will last a good long time.

See the Conservation Masterpiece Difference.
It’s the Best. Let Us Show You Why."


Notice the line "clearest, best framing glass available". This information is courtesy of Tru Vue? This information is the opposite of the supposed truth. If maserpiece is reduced quality standards Museum then how can it be the "clearest, best framing glass available"? Gee why is it that everyone's got themselves worked up about this? It all works right into the BB's advertising. First it was a false sense of cost/value now its a false sence of quality in product. How can both products be the "clearest, best framing glass available" unless they are exactly the same product. "Best" is not a subjective term. It either is the best or it isn't.
 

Terry Scidmore CPF

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Might be interesting to check out Apogee Enterprises Form 10 K annual report. Fiscal year ending March 2007 is on line and gives you a better understanding of how the company perceives its markets, the products that it carries and plans for these products.

Here is just one small bit regarding the picture framing glass end of the industry:

The following are the key items that impacted fiscal 2007:

The positive impact from the improvement in the Architectural segment’s operating performance was primarily the result of the improved commercial construction market, as seen in increased pricing and volume. The segment was also positively affected by improved productivity.

The negative impact from a less favorable mix of value-added picture framing glass within the LSO segment. We expect the mix to improve in the future as our marketing and partnering efforts increase the overall volume of value-added picture framing glass as well as advance the mix of products up the value-added continuum.

There is more regarding their sale of their automotive glass end, and some mention of their getting out of the mass produced premade art end (the glazing part of it).
 

Cretin75

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Jim, I'm not up on the Joannes issue because their store near me doesn't sell framing. It seems like this was discussed a lot a while ago. Who owns Joannes? Is it just a quantity deal or is there ownership invovled?
I'm at Joann's (no E at the end ;) ) and we do sell Museum glass, it's labeled as such and our display (the butterfly/fan looking thing shows Museum glass and acrylic along side regular glass and arcylic.

Larson Juhl and Neilson does our frames. And we sell Bainbridge and Artcare mats.

We also have a deal with Digital Imaging too, to do our photos into art.

We can get Museum glass in 16x20, 18x24, 24x36, 32x40 and 40x60.
 

pollyann

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Have the aliens gotten to you too Pollyann? The picture under your name says imaginary. Is that a reference to your true hidden identity?.
Nothing hidden about who I am, I have said before that I am a frame shop manager for Michael's.

I also have never said the glass wasn't clear, perhaps as clear as Museum, I would not know as I have never worked with Museum. What I did say was to get a good piece you must go through alot. I have no reason to make this up. If they don't care how much I throw out why should I? Remember I just work for them. If everyone else want's the Masterpiece I say let them have it, maybe it's worth the waste, maybe not. I do know that we don't return any glass, if it's flawed it just get's pitched into the trash.

What I wonder is why would anyone want to purchase this if they would have to go through the additional time to complete a job. My guess is it would have to be offered to you so cheap it could offset the additional time it would take you to use the stuff. How long would it take before you would be willing to pay a higher price for your time?

I feel as if I should apologize to you all for working for such a place, believe me if I had a choice I wouldn't, but they actually pay me better than any single independent frame shop in our town and they are the ONLY one that can offer me insurance. So until my husband is finished going back to school I shall remain in the box.

I didn't mean to stir up anymore animosity between Tru vue, M,s and all of you. I just thought you would actually like to hear from someone who really does work with Masterpiece every single day.

Then again, since no one really knows me, perhaps I am a spy for the box just passing on some bogus information in hopes to difuse all this speculation so you will just leave us alone and quit picking on us. You have no idea how upset the president and CEO of M's really is. This issue is just tearing them up inside. They hate to see everyone so upset, and Tru Vue, oh my! They can't sleep at night, and we have to do business with them. Please, just STOP!! Leave us alone!!
 

Cretin75

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I feel as if I should apologize to you all for working for such a place, believe me if I had a choice I wouldn't, but they actually pay me better than any single independent frame shop in our town and they are the ONLY one that can offer me insurance.
I can sure relate to that statement. I'm also the framing manager at the Joann's I'm at. Used to be at the big M for 5 years, now JA for 2. Gotta love the insurance and paid time offs ;) There are a few more that can relate to you on this :)

I think we even had this convo before hahaha
 

erick

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
You have no idea how upset the president and CEO of M's really is. This issue is just tearing them up inside. They hate to see everyone so upset, and Tru Vue, oh my! They can't sleep at night, and we have to do business with them. Please, just STOP!! Leave us alone!!
LOL!!
 

Susan L. Young

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Nothing hidden about who I am, I have said before that I am a frame shop manager for Michael's.


I feel as if I should apologize to you all for working for such a place, believe me if I had a choice I wouldn't, but they actually pay me better than any single independent frame shop in our town and they are the ONLY one that can offer me insurance. So until my husband is finished going back to school I shall remain in the box.

I didn't mean to stir up anymore animosity between Tru vue, M,s and all of you. I just thought you would actually like to hear from someone who really does work with Masterpiece every single day.

Then again, since no one really knows me, perhaps I am a spy for the box just passing on some bogus information in hopes to difuse all this speculation so you will just leave us alone and quit picking on us. You have no idea how upset the president and CEO of M's really is. This issue is just tearing them up inside. They hate to see everyone so upset, and Tru Vue, oh my! They can't sleep at night, and we have to do business with them. Please, just STOP!! Leave us alone!!
I like you, PollyAnn. One should never feel as if she should apologize for taking pride in her work and for just plain old hard work. Thanks for the info, and the laughs too.
 

Mecianne

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Doug will no longer be participating at The Grumble. I can neither confirm nor deny that men in black suits and sunglasses stopped by his shop shortly after he posted this.

If someone claiming to be Doug Gemmell starts posting here, you should assume that he came out of a pod.

Pod people.....LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Pollyann,
Please don't take any comments I said seriously. I was just having fun with you. BTW we offer insurance, matched IRAs, paid vacation, better wages than the BBs and major holidays we are closed. All that and we are just a 3 employee shop.

But wouldn't a blemish on the surface of the glass be concidered a reduction in clarity? I know I'm getting into semantics here but...................
 

Val

PFG, Picture Framing God
Then again, since no one really knows me, perhaps I am a spy for the box just passing on some bogus information in hopes to difuse all this speculation so you will just leave us alone and quit picking on us.
I know you, and you're not a spy, Pollyann. Some folks here appreciate your input from the "other side of the story" And some of us know what it's like to be in your shoes, since some of us have been/are M's framers. It's frustrating.

Thanks for taking the time to help disspell some of the Michaels Myths. No need for apologies, you're in an awkward position, but you're STILL A FRAMER! And a darn good one, at that!

Go Pollyann!!!
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Pollyann:

I'd like to second Val's sentiment. Your contributions are always clear & concise, and appreciated. It's too bad we don't have more participation from other employees of mass-market framing companies.

Doesn't Michaels have some sort of rule about employees posting business-related communications online, or is that another company? We wouldn't want you to get into trouble that way.
 

Val

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jim, I never saw, in writing, a rule to that effect, nor was ever told otherwise, but we were forbidden to talk about sales figures, etc. Things might have changed in the 2 years since I was there.

Pollyann?
 

pollyann

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Pollyann
doesn't Michaels have some sort of rule about employees posting business-related communications online, or is that another company? We wouldn't want you to get into trouble that way.
As far as I know I haven't signed anything stating I can not post online about Michaels. Would that mean I can't speak about them either? what happened to free speech? To be honest I doubt I am giving away any grave secrets to the place. I guess if there is a rule about not talking/typing then they will have to point it out to me. There could be something new hires sign, but I have been around so long that it's changed numerous times. When I got hired I believe I filled out an application, we talked, I started working. Simple as that!

With that said, if I disappear off the grumbler forever , you will know why!
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
As far as I know I haven't signed anything stating I can not post online about Michaels. Would that mean I can't speak about them either? what happened to free speech? To be honest I doubt I am giving away any grave secrets to the place. I guess if there is a rule about not talking/typing then they will have to point it out to me. There could be something new hires sign, but I have been around so long that it's changed numerous times. When I got hired I believe I filled out an application, we talked, I started working. Simple as that!

With that said, if I disappear off the grumbler forever , you will know why!
Yup, it will mean Doug Gemmell and the other pod people got you, too.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
You have no idea how upset the president and CEO of M's really is. This issue is just tearing them up inside. They hate to see everyone so upset, and Tru Vue, oh my! They can't sleep at night, and we have to do business with them. Please, just STOP!! Leave us alone!!
I wonder how funny this topic would be if you had a fraction of what most of us have on the line, or if you had anything on the line for that matter?

Also your reason for not wanting this product is extremely weak. I have to believe that M is making good money off it or they wouldn’t offer it. Yet they are the only shop that can afford you and your wasting how much? If you can make money selling it, I guarantee that I can too! Are they paying anything for this stuff?

I have quite a few flaws in generic 2mil SSB glass. Savings are well worth it over its pricier twin brother. You have proved to me that this is true for Practice Museum Glass yall are selling.
 

pollyann

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I wonder how funny this topic would be if you had a fraction of what most of us have on the line, or if you had anything on the line for that matter?
.
In my previous posts on this matter I have never refered to it as a funny topic. I realize that you all have some major concerns over it. There for I was trying to give you some insight to what this product really is. I personally do not like working with it!

I am sorry if I seem to upset you with some humor on this long drawn out matter. It seems others can bring some humor into it, I didn't realize I was not allowed, perhaps it's because I work for the "enemy". The humor was as much away for me to deal with who I work for than it was for anyone else.

You may not like me, or like who I work for even less, but please don't say I don't have anything on the line. The stress I deal with daily in running one of their shops is amazing. Do you think a company that only see's $$ signs will for one second take into consideration the extra work this new glass has caused? do you think they will give me more payroll $$'s to schedule extra help? No, they will just push harder and harder, sure they are probably making money left and right but at the expense of there employee's. As much as I hate this glass I have to sell it every single day, because my Job will be on the line if I don't meet there quota. Don't think for a second that I am not expendable to them. When I do bring up issues, which I have, the response I get back is, "Whose name is on the front of this building? does it say Pollyann's?" And as I stated prior I do make more money here and I need a job to support my family.

Do I make alot? NO, probably less than every single framer on this forum. If I could find an independant framer who could offer me insurance in MY hometown I would be out the door in a second.

So although my reasons may be weak to you, they are not to me.

Again, I am sorry to offend you or any other framer.

Perhaps I should just stay in the box.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Oh no offence, really. I saw your statement as a bit of a jab in the eye. The other stuff is a distraction. Humor is allowed but I wouldn’t point to many examples in this thread. You see there is a long standing tradition of people who tire of a thread and devote more energy stopping others from participating than just ignoring it. It’s usually done under the guise of “humor” but it’s usually about as funny as diarrhea. Not to mention it’s quite rude but you get used to it.

You have again assured me that M watches the bottom line very closely and can still make good money on this inferior glass. Surely, just based on that, you could understand why I would want to give it a shot. I may not like working with it either. There are lots of things I don't "like" but if it's profitable at a price customers like then I'm game. Or I guess would be game.
 

Doug Gemmell

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hang in there Pollyann. If you can put up with that work situation, you should be able to put up with some of us grouchy grumblers.

The Masterpiece issue is a touchy subject with some of us (no, really?), primarily due to the way Tru Vue is handling it.

You just got caught in the line of fire when you stuck your head up.
Many of us appreciate your humor and candor.
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Along what Doug just said, our beef isn't even realy with the BBs in THIS particular situation. It's the company supplying the product. Not to mention the site is called the "Grumble" for a reason. Its not called "The Picture Framers Shiney Happy Place".
 
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