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PPFA Matboard Standards now available!

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Jim Miller, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    Were any accredited conservators involved in preparing the standards, if so how many and what are their accreditation's?
  2. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Second page of the guide:

    PPFA wishes to thank these contributors to the development
    of these Comparative Matboard Standards:

    PPFA 2013 Guidelines Task Force
    David Lantrip, MCPF, GCF, PPFA Board of Directors; Manager Training/Education, Franchise Concepts, Inc., Houston, TX
    Jim Miller, MCPF, GCF (Chairman), Owner ARTFRAME, Inc., Pickerington, OH
    William Parker, MCPF, GCF, Past PPFA Pres.; Nashville, TN

    Contributors in the paper, matboard, and framing industries

    Norman Boris, Industry consultant
    Tim Boyd, Monadnock Paper Mills, Inc.
    Steve Foley, Onyx Specialty Papers, Inc.
    Michael Ginsberg, Legion-Rising Matboards
    Fred Katzman, Industry consultant
    Chris Koeppen, Crescent Cardboard Co.
    Geoff Leech, James Cropper Company/Artique Matboards
    Andrew Littig, Larson-Juhl/Artique Matboards
    Sue Losco, Nielsen Bainbridge, LLC
    Hugh Phibbs, Preservation Specialist
    Ken Schelling, Paperlogic/Southworth
    Sterling, Craig, Museum Specialist
    Paul Storch, Conservator
    Alan Yaffe, Peterboro Cardboards Limited

    Joe, I hear what you're saying, but if you look at the back of those samples, 2 of them are called 'museum quality' but the specs are different and would fall into different classes. I would love if the whole industry would specify their samples per the 4 classes. Easier for the framer, but also easier to understand and explain to the customer.
  3. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    My wonder has been solved, I have seen sight of the new standards and the composition of who helped formulate them.

    Interesting I got my details from an industry source in Europe….
  4. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Didn't your "industry source in Europe" share the whole document?
  5. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Assuming Dermot received them between his last two posts. Can they be posted here?
  6. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Guess we have the same source, but I assume this booklet becomes for sale, so maybe not fair to post it?
  7. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Nobody has seen a printed booklet yet, since the first printing of them will be delivered directly to the PPFA Convention/WCAF Expo/National Conference in about a week.

    As stated earlier, PPFA hopes every framer can get a booklet of the standards from a supplier, and that process will begin in Las Vegas on January 19th. The PPFA Comparative Standards for Matboard will be available at no charge on the trade show floor and in at least two of the scheduled classes.

    In coming weeks, we hope that local distributors will have supplies of the books to distribute to their framing customers.
  8. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    It would be great if it were available for download somewhere - I'd happily pay for it as a file but not so much as a booklet. Hopefully our vendors get copies down here!
  9. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Exactly. A pdf file would be great, a booklet not so much. We are already using the websites of our suppliers why not just supply each vendor with a copy that has their brand on it and let us download from them?

    Since the ppfa is going to the expense of publishing am I to assume there is a charge for this book? More of a reason to make it downloadable. No expense of publishing and shipping and distributing. Just supply it to our vendors and they can charge or give us a link we can access to download it from. The webstats will tell the ppfa which vendors are providing the most clicks and from where and etc.
  10. Grey Owl

    Grey Owl SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Thank you for publishing the information on who was involved in the preparation of these new standards.

    This helps put more credence into the work.

    And thank you to all of those involved.
  11. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I agree with everything Russ stated - that is a good group of people who put the new standards together.

    Questions - will each mat be identified as to what standard it is? Will we have to write the standard on the corners or are the manufacturer going to print the standard on them in the future? Can we use 1 standard for each category i.e. Select, ArtCare, etc. Are all "Rag" mats, no matter who the manufacturer is, rated as the same standard?

    Just wondering - Joe B
  12. Rob Markoff

    Rob Markoff PFG, Picture Framing God

    I am not sure everyone understands what the "standards" are or what they can be used for.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but the PPFA is not "rating" brands or specific matboards, nor is saying one brand or another is of which class, nor which mat brands are to be used for a specific application.

    I have seen the new booklet and as I interpret it, just the criteria for the classes are listed. Studying the criteria (and using the excellent glossary) is an excellent learning experience. There are no specific boards, brand names, etc. in the standards, just the criteria for each class.

    It will be up to the manufacturer or a framer to make the determination as to which class the matboard falls into and which class is appropriate for the framing application. But there will not be any "grey" areas - either the board meets the criteria for a specific class or it doesn't. A framer will need to confirm the specific qualities of the mat based on the manufactures specifications. If a sales rep says that a mat is a certain type of board, we now have a printed standard we can refer to - to confirm that the board meets the criteria to be labeled as such. No hype or marketing salesmanship.

    Perhaps manufacturers will make lists for framers as to "their" interpretation of which mats fall into which classes or may use the criteria for future labeling.

    I haven't gone back through the posts to see who said that one of the things their clients are looking for is "acid free." To me, that is an opportunity to explain to a customer that by itself, "acid free" means NOTHING! (like Ellen says, Ammonia is Acid Free). Same as "museum quality". It also allows an opportunity to "defend" the selling price of certain products based on the specifications that the boards meet.

    This project is the result of a LOT of work, (especially for a group as large as the contributors) to all come to a consensus. Many thanks to all those involved.
  13. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    Joe, Assuming that boards with different compositions are classified differently, then I can see certain mat board manufacturers making hay out of this with big advertising campaigns and others whose boards might fall into a slightly lesser category ignoring or denying the authority of the standards. Just look at the 92% vs. 99% head to head ad campaigns that are run by major glass companies. And yes, there is a published standard (97%) in this industry as well.

    It will be interesting to see what the mat companies do with this, but I'll bet that if certain "conservation" boards are deemed anything but the best available, you won't see those standards printed on samples any time soon.

    I will be especially interested to see where Artcare alpha cellulose with Zeolites falls out compared to rag without. I see big challenges and a slew of ad campaigns ahead.
  14. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    I do this already on almost a daily basis. I know when I pull a 4 or 8 ply rag that it will be considerably more than a board with a similar look (but not feel) made from alpha cellulose. I usually mention that if sticker shock ensues, and we simply choose another manufacturer. I usually just say, "This board is 100% cotton, and it is more expensive. This board is also protective, but is made from alpha cellulose, and is less expensive." Color and price are what determine the board choice for most customers.

    Getting the customer who walks in with an "archival" board from a big box store to understand the difference between acid-free white core and preservation quality boards has been a challenge. With various levels of quality, going any further in differentiation may be seen as an arcane exercise by those opening their wallets.

    Written standards are a good thing for framers to have access to, and I see some very interesting conversations on the horizon.
  15. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Yes, and one intended purpose of the new classifications is to help explain that fact and compare board types in concise terms that everyone can understand. For example, this conversation could happen in frame shops daily:

    "I want acid free mats..."

    Frame Designer:
    "It is good that you realize there are different board types and that you are concerned about preserving this item, but 'acid free' is a vague term, so let's be more specific. The composition of the paper is most important. Most mats labeled only 'acid free' are in Class IV, the lowest rating. For this project, I recommend the better mats in Class II..."

    Keep a booklet of the standards at the design counter and show customers the classifications if they are interested in knowing more. All of the data you need is itemized on three pages. I have tested this approach a few times already, and it really does help customers understand the differences.
  16. stcstc

    stcstc SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    actually what would be cool is to have POS type material for this. like little desk stand with the 4 classes on etc
  17. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    As far as I know, PPFA does not plan to ask the manufacturers to proclaim that their products meet the standards. That would pose no problems if the manufacturers choose to do it, but it would not be necessary in order for the standards to serve their purpose. The standards provide specifications and comparative classifications written primarily for the educational benefit of framers, not to dictate specifications to manufacturers.

    Yes, you can very easily categorize the mats you sell. The standards are based mostly on fiber content, but additives and other composition factors are also involved. Brand names are not mentioned.
  18. Grey Owl

    Grey Owl SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Good Idea.

    This is something you could easily do yourself, once the published standards are out.
  19. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Thank you Jim, this sheds a little more light on this, I will be interested in seeing the booklet. You stated earlier the booklet is available at the WCAF. Will it be at the PPFA booth or where exactly can I obtain 1 at the WCAF?
  20. stcstc

    stcstc SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    ah yea for me its easy as i do printing in house etc. some people may find it a pain
  21. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    The standards were finished only about a week ago, and the entire first printing is being sent directly to the PPFA Convention/WCAF Expo in Las Vegas. The booklets will be for sale in the PPFA booth #P20, of course. I'm not sure of the price, but certainly it will cost less than a typical Las Vegas cocktail.

    The late timing of the introduction and printing makes it difficult to know exactly what exhibitors will have the booklets, but I've heard that at least one of the matboard manufacturers will have a generous supply of them available in their booth on a first-come, first-served basis. Also, the booklets will be available in some of the classes.

    The plan is for suppliers to purchase the booklets to sell at a low price, or they may choose to have their sales representatives hand them out as a promotional benefit. After all, the more framers know about what goes into matboard products, the more they will appreciate the better-quality matboards, and the less they are likely to misunderstand inaccurate statements about certain products, especially those not in the North American framing mainstream.
  22. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    What will be the copywrite issues with regard to duplicating the booklets to give to customers, or community group class attendees? I'm teaching a class in Las Vegas on giving educational classes to community groups, and I could see my artist and photo club groups benefitting from a copy of the booklet. I'm just throwing this out in case it has not been considered yet.

    I can also see an abbreviated explanation would be a great asset in publications like E-Newsletters, or perhaps being able to link to the booklet from our web sites?

    Always thinking of the marketing angle...
  23. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    This booklet of standards, like all of the other PPFA Guidelines publications, is the intellectual property of PPFA and it has real value, as evidenced by the fact that some may be tempted to reproduce it. I don't know how PPFA will address the issue, but there are at least two opposing forces to consider: 1) PPFA wants every framer to have the benefit of the standards, and 2) PPFA must have some revenue from the books.
  24. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    Can something that is intended to be a standard for consumers be a paid for publication.... !!

    In Ireland / Europe you cannot charge consumers, distributors, converters, etc etc for information needed to make a buying decision...

    I am almost sure the same applies in the US ...
  25. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Post #13 here made perfect sense to me and still does, what's changed?

    I'd guess, in fact I don't have to guess, that board suppliers would be pretty pissed about that - who'd want to buy cotton boards on that basis? I think this is to do with muuuuuch more than just protection of artwork and information available to framers - I think it benefits sales and training more, but I have the PDF and the information is useful.

    But my personal standards won't change, I use artcare boards as default (and I really like the alpharags) and believe that high quality wood alpha cellulose with zeolites out-performs cotton boards without them.

    What's changed, honestly?
  26. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yup, I got pretty much beat up for saying about the same thing. Now I want to see the standards before I say much more, because if I don't agree then I will be able to be more specific about why.
  27. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    Do you have free (legal) access to ISO standards?
  28. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    ISO is not for consumers... they are industrial standards.
  29. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Neither are the FATG or PPFA standards. They are for professional framers. But since framers sell to consumers, the information can be of interest to consumers who care to learn about the material differences involved, and it probably would be provided by the framer without imposing a price; not directly, anyway.

    Dermot, I've never heard of laws restricting the sale of consumer information in the USA. Can you tell us more about these American laws?
  30. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    What consumer standards information is sold in the US !!!
  31. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    Mat / Mount board is for the most part is sold in framing shops to consumers, I find it astonishing that there should be a suggestion that if a consumer wants information on the standard of mat / mount board that they may have to pay for that information, the mind boggles on that one.

    Please don't mix up ISO standards which are for industrial use with consumer standards.
  32. Cornered One

    Cornered One CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Where does it say these standards are for consumers? I was under the impression that it was for framers and distributors?? The purpose of which is to better educate them on the materials they are using and what they are best suited for us with. Seems to me this could be the best 2.00 a framer could spend and if the 2.00 is an issue they may be in the wrong business. Besides the PPFA is non profit and has in my estimation done a great service to our industry all for 2.00.
  33. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Now I'm totally confused. Where does it say the consumer is paying to get the booklet?

    And how is this one different from any other text book/how to/whatever?
  34. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Nothing has changed in the chemistry. As always, virgin alpha cellulose from purified pulp has always been considered comparable to cotton for permanence in most framing applications. Also as always, cotton requires less processing, resulting in fibers that are longer and chemically more resistant (slightly) to the molecular conversion that produces acid. The longer, softer fibers make a different texture, often considered better for mat decoration. Admittedly, these advantages may be small and inconsequential for most framing. On the other hand, if the more-costly cotton fibers offered no advantage, who would use them to make matboard?

    The differences between Class I and Class II involve no risk to customers' property. However, the same can not be said of the differences between Class II and Class III. When preservation is a factor, the choice is clear for those who understand the differences. But those who are uninformed may be inclined to make the Class III mistake.

    The composition of matboards made in North America has not changed, but matboards are now coming here from other countries where manufacturing practices may be different. There are reports of at least one manufacturer using what we call "white core" fibers and colorant dyes, claiming their boards comparable to those made with virgin alpha cellulose fibers and pigmented colors. Comparative standards help framers learn the differences and understand what they are buying.

    Of course, this is a conversation about preservation framing. If preservation is not pertinent to the framing, neither is this conversation. Framers who believe "white core" boards are good enough for their customers are welcome to that opinion. But they would be mistaken to believe those boards are equal in quality to virgin alpha cellulose boards.
  35. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Speaking of astonishment and boggle, where did you get the idea that anyone would try to sell matboard standards to consumers?

    Please don't mix up framing standards with consumer standards.

    You haven't explained what you mean by "consumer standards information", but I'll guess you are referring to something like the American Consumer Reports magazine, which publishes ratings of consumer products. It is sold to consumers by subscription.
  36. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Can you clarify? What would board makers be pissed about? What basis is "that basis"?
  37. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Jim, you implied that. You said that the PPFA would be selling their new booklet. Not "making it available for free" to framers. Or "handing it out" at the trade shows, but that it was "for sale". Youwere the one that said the PPFA was putting it in the hands of our suppliers, not to us directly. That the PPFA was selling it to our suppliers who could sell it to us.

    So while I applaud the PPFA for the standards and the work that was put into the standards I learned from you that access to these standards would not be free to me, that they had a cost associated with them.

    That said I do not expect anyone to go to all that work and trouble to formalize an industry standard. And i do not begrudge them trying to recoup the costs associated with that research and development. Just saying that you were the source, for me, for the implication that someone was selling the information.....
  38. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    The basis that alpha cellulose is alpha cellulose and for the purposes of preservation, there is no difference between the wood and cotton versions.

    If all framers believed that it would surely affect the sales of cotton boards which would not please suppliers?
  39. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    No I am not speaking of "reports", I am speaking of consumer standards.....

    Can you let me know where or what information about consumer standards is sold in the US as you suggested happens....
  40. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Alpha cellulose from cotton and virgin alpha cellulose from wood pulp are both considered suitable for retail preservation framing and those board types may be used interchangeably for most projects. However, that is not to say "there is no difference between the wood and cotton versions". As previously explained, the fibers are not the same.
  41. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Consumer standards, which you have not yet defined, have nothing to do with matboard standards created for the educational benefit of professional framing practitioners.
  42. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Bob, you see the framers as consumers then. To me, the consumers are my customers and they couldn't care less about a book about standards, as long as I, the framer, knows what I'm doing. Jim never said we should sell it to our customers. It should be sold to framers, to the industry.

    PPFA sells it to framers. Does anyone suggest they should just hand it out for free? Why would anyone bother to put effort and time into trying to get those standards then. Did anyone see the list of people who contributed to this? Does anyone for a minute believe they will make money on this?

    Sheesh! Sorry, but here is an effort to make things simple and can be reviewed in one easy booklet and we are talking about totally different things.
  43. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    Thank you Bob Doyle at least someone is awake around here….

    I to applaud the work the PPFA have done about the “quality” of Mat / Mount board, as I now distribute a range of 100% cotton board in Ireland, it is the only type of board I will stock and sell at present, this new “quality” information will make my life easier.

    I will not drift to far from this thread, I do have a good background around ISO / Federal standards, I worked Federal Standard 209B for many years, this I think is up to about version 209F now.

    I also know of an IT company (those who know me can make a good guess as to who it is) who thought they were OK using an industrial standard for product that ended up in consumer hands …. they got it quite wrong and as of today the cost stands at about US$40,000, 000 and growing, that is aside from the man / woman power involved in resolving the issue.

    The trust of my comments about the PPFA publication was simply a wonder on my part had all aspects of what they are doing been thought through fully…

    Again I repeat, ….. I applaud the PPFA and all who are involved in the mat / mount board publication, eventually it will do a lot of good.

    Oh BTW one mat board company will have the publication on their booth / stand at WCAF or according to their website they will, I would suspect other companies will have it also.
  44. Dermot Cox-Kearns

    Dermot Cox-Kearns Guest

    Again I would please ask you to answer my question and not take it off in another direction...

    Can you let me know where or what information about consumer standards is sold in the US as you suggested happens....
  45. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ylva, when I buy something I consider myself a consumer :) I am not a manufacturer, nor an I a moulding vendor or a matboard supplier. I buy those items and then sell them on to the next layer of consumer. Beit an artist, a gallery or the end customer. So, yes, I do see myself as a member of, a link in, the complicated consumer chain.

    In the reading I did in this thread someone had made reference to selling it or making the info in it available to their customers. If it is a valuable reference item and I was giving one of my mat cutting classes at the local adult ed then I would provide it to the people in that class. (I don't do classes anymore but did quite a few in the past.)

    As to handing it out for free, I did make reference to the saving of printing costs by providing (or selling) a link to a pdf so that we could print it out or access it in different formats. As I said a little bit ago I do not think it should be free, but honestly I have not opened the 257 Framing Tips books or the Jigs for a Frame Shop or the Pricing for Profit book I bought. But I would open them on a kindle, laptop or my samsung player. A pdf would also get the pamphlet to Australia, to South America, to Maine much faster and more effieciently than printing a book and shipping it. I'd pay a few dollars for a link to a pdf.

    I was just talking to my mechanic this morning. Thanksgiving weekend I was stuck in NYC with a dead altenator in a car I had just bought. I had called AAA and had been referred to a garage that robbed me blind. I was saying to him that I am a dinosaur. That I called AAA instead of googling or going to Yelp. (The garage I was sent to had a 1 star yelp rating and the "yelpers" complained of the exact same thing that had happened to me) So I am a dinosaur and AAA is dinosaur technology. We need to stop being dinosaurs in our industry, we need to be ready to accept formats other than printed pamphlets and books. We need to be amenable to pdfs and eBooks. It is well past time. I no longer even open the updated price lists that my suppliers go to the expense of printing, I throw them right into the paper box. My updates are online, the paper cpies are probably out of date by the time they hit my door :) This pamphlet is a great idea, but it needs to be a pdf not a pamphlet.
  46. stcstc

    stcstc SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    i would of thought at least the PPFA would give it to their members.

    i again can understand the effort and do applaud it.


    if i were a member of the PPFA, who dues had been used to develop this standard. to then be asked to pay for it, i would find slightly hard to swallow

    i thought the point of standrads were for manufacturers to aim to and use to market their product that it meets standard x y and z

    and for users that by manufactuers promoting their products meeting these standards that it would help the user to make informed choices

    to me from what has been said here, this document is NOT a standard but more a set of guidlines. ie manufacturers are not being tempted and pushed to meet these standards, and users are being given it without any direct relationship to product a b or c to correlate what is in the document

    being able to digest and disect marketing blurb from manufacturers is not a standard its a guide that helps do it

    arent standards something that people say hey we meet x y and z standards. like iso standards etc??
  47. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Nope, I never said, implied, or hinted in any way that matboard standards are intended to be sold to consumers. The standards are primarily for framing practitioners. The 'Plan A' is for suppliers to buy the booklets and provide them to framers, but of course that is up to the suppliers.

    Of course somebody must pay for the printing and distribution of the booklets. Perhaps non-members would appreciate PPFA financing the standards entirely, but the members who pay the dues (and thereby all costs of the association) probably would not. The volunteers who developed the standards did so with the fair expectation that the association would share some of the benefit.
  48. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Dermot, I have been confused by your requests to Jim for evidence of consumer standards sold to whatever... Again your argument has me confused. But this reply of yours sheds some light to me.

    OK, the pamphlet that the PPFA came up with, well, I have no problem with it having a price. I see it as the product of research that the PPFA funded. So I see it as a product of industry funded R&D. Like our drugs and other products we buy. The auto industry uses safety standards and other standards to develop cars. We pay for them. the drug industry develops drugs that we pay for. This pamphlet is the product of research and that research has a cost.

    My big issue is that well, frankly does it really need to be printed? It's on a computer somewhere just sell me the link and I'll download it. I bought a book on dog training. It is protected. I can only have it on one device. I bought a manual for my snowblower. It is a pdf, and I have read it a surprising number of times. Larry has a page dedicated to pdf links to out dated manuals that we all need.

    This pamphlet really should not be printed out. I don't mind, I guess, being expected to pony up the cash for the research, but really? I have to pay to print and ship and inventory a book I read about on the internet?

    In high school a teacher had us line up in teams and try to get a ball from one side of the gym to the other as fast as possible. People did a bucket brigade, they ran it they did all kinds of things. The teacher kicked it. He won. POint is if you want the information out as fast as possible forget all the intermediaries. Forget printing, forget shipping, just email the link after I pay for the right to read it, that'll get the book to the farthest reaches faster than UPS or FedEx or Big Yellow Freight. And save the cost of all the middle men, lowering the price for us all.
  49. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I agree with you that the research is not free and should have some price to the end user, the framer. Whether it is loyalty to a supplier (Like TruVu/LifeSaver combination) or an upfront price. But, why ship it? We are not dinosaurs anymore, like I said before let's embrace the newer technologies available to us. We don't play chess by mail anymore (anyone remember doing that?) And we don't have the photocopied and snailmailed XMas family newsletter anymore. Our POS prices are updated online, few of us use paper price lists anymore, I stopped in 2005 and have not looked back since :) Let's get the information out in pdf files, like LifeSaver does with the tips we all send them. My c:/lifesaver folder is full of the text files for all the software updates. Ask the PPFA to make this pamphlet downloadable. Frankly we could all be looking at it now and be talking on an educated level instead of bantering around about something that many of us have not read yet... I wager this thread has 10 times more words in it than the pamphlet has :) And that this thread has 100 times less information for us framers to use...

    Books take to long to get the information out. Send out a link and let us pay for accessing it.
  50. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    ISO standards do impact consumers and the public in general though, if they did not there would be no need for them right? By advertising that we meet an ISO standard (separate industry to framing btw) we increase the chances of products sales over those made by others which are not compliant, is this not the same as what you mention Dermot? I am failing to understand the difference.

    Maybe the better kwestion here is, will the release of this information increase the likelihood of people to either renew, rejoin or join the PPFA? For me I know this make a difference although I have little use for a printed booklet and electronic copies would be considerably more advantageous, the technology for limiting distribution to purchasers is yet to be made available though I guess.
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