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Question morso chopper questions

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Definitely, that last moulding is not "Morso Friendly" An undercut rear edge and heavy compo are a deadly combination. The second moulding is not bad and you may improve on those "whiskers' by ensuring your lower knives are as close as they can get to the blades without touching them. If the lower knives are a bit roughened it may be worth having them machined smooth.

Another tip for detecting dull blades: When cutting, press the moulding firmly against the fence with the fingers of your left hand. When you make that final, shaving cut that Prospero mentioned listen and feel. The sound should be a soft ssshhh, like a librarian reminding you where you are. You should feel nothing with your left fingers. If you feel the moulding kick back slightly at the end of the cut that means a dull blade. Drop the blade and press the moulding against it and you will see a tiny gap on the inside edge. It is always that last couple of millimetres of the edge which goes dull first.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
As the blades dull they tend to go 'off track' and deviate slightly. This results in the angle being off a tad and results
in the familiar gap on the inner side of the final join. Why the final join? Because when you join the other three, the
other ends are free to move. But when you come to do the last one they aren't. The angle discrepancy may be only
a few seconds of arc but there are 8 faces and the cumulative fault manifests itself on the last corner. The wider the
moulding, the worse the gap due to divergence. This is when you should swap blades, but you can coax a bit more
use out of them by the 'left fence tweak'. Loosen the left fence and move it toward you a tiny fraction. This will compensate
the for the anomaly in the angle. If you over compensate, you start to get a gap on the outside.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
This thread needs a picture of Roboframer's calf.
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
samcrimm-6637.jpg samcrimm-6638.jpg samcrimm-6639.jpg samcrimm-6640.jpg samcrimm-6641.jpg samcrimm-6642.jpg samcrimm-6643.jpg samcrimm-6644.jpg I got my blades back from Tech Mark, and I can see the difference! I can also feel the difference too. I have attached more pictures for everyone. I am happier now that the chopping is doing better. So the next question would be may be fine tune the cutting process?

First pictures are the two sets of blades the top blades are the new ones I got off ebay and the bottom set are the ones that came with the chopper and back from Tech Mark. The next two shows the end as the old blades cut and the v is the new blades. 5,6 and 7 is that fancy molding I had cut before. All I got was a very little chip on the bottom. 8 is paper covered molding, it did much better! So #9 I put a piece of mat board against the fence and bang! Got a super cut!

Sam
 

Attachments

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Sam: what other saw(s) are you using? That ornate molding is a candidate for a chop saw.
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
tedh, I have a chop saw with a Quinn blade, but it is at the hanger 3 miles away. I wanted something in my shop dust free.
Sam
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hey Sam - lookin good, with a little fine tune you will be doing great. Remember when you use a mat board to check the length to assure the measurement is correct. You may have to adjust that a little. Can you get a picture looking directly down onto the to top of the blades - close up. The very front edge should be perfectly aligned with each other otherwise you will get that chip. I cut decorative moulding a lot nastier that the one you pictured and I get perfect cuts. You are doing good - you will find out that you love a chopper - NO DUST and perfect 45s
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Yep!! Amen to Joe's advice on setting up the blades. Looking directly at the front of the cutting head the two cutting edges should be perfectly in line with each other and the vertical edges should meet perfectly. It can be a bit fiddly getting them right but it is worth it.

Also, make sure that when the blades are lowered the gap between the cutting edges and the bottom blades is as small as it can be without actually touching. I used to lower the blades, press the bottom blade up against them then back them off a foofteenth of a fairy's fart.
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Hey Joe,

Here are the pictures you requested, I assume you wanted to see how the blades match with the bottom blades? IF you need some different angle let me know.
Art, I think I have it right?samcrimm-6649.jpg samcrimm-6650.jpg samcrimm-6652.jpg samcrimm-6653.jpg

Sam
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I remember reading that the distance between the top blads and the bottom, fixed, blades should be about the thickness of a piece of paper.
I have never fooled with that setting in 42 years.
:cool: Rick
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I remember reading that the distance between the top blads and the bottom, fixed, blades should be about the thickness of a piece of paper.
I have never fooled with that setting in 42 years.
:cool: Rick
I haven't fooled with it in 35 years. That's 77 years we have both not fooled with it. ;)
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
I remember reading that the distance between the top blades and the bottom, fixed, blades should be about the thickness of a piece of paper.
I have never fooled with that setting in 42 years.
:cool: Rick
I haven't fooled with it in 35 years. That's 77 years we have both not fooled with it. ;)
I have never fooled with that in 45 years...:eek:
Hey, now we're at 122 years of "not fooling with that"...;)
That's almost a lifetime....:cool:
(I have fooled with other things but that's another story for another day):rolleyes:
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Well, up here in Canada I haven't gone near those blades in over 25 years.

I'm feeling old.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Well you can add another 17 years to the 122 years making it now 139 -
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think we should hold a contest for the filthiest Morso still in use that was bought new. :eek:

Mines a disgrace. :oops:
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I've had a Morso for as many years as I've been in business and the only time I experienced the problem you are having was when my set of blades were sent to be sharpened and they mixed them up at the sharpeners. The blades I got back were for a Jaden and by the time I got some Morso blades back they weren't mine. The blades I got back had a small chip, hardly noticeable in the point where the two blades came together and they did exactly what you are describing. I had rips and jagged edges on every chop and no amount of adjusting would fix the problem. Once I got a new set of blades there were no more problems. Like Joe, I use my Morso about 90% of the time and have very few problems. My saw collects dust most of the time.

What I did for catching the chips was take a square plastic box. kind that aren't very firm and cut slits in the side that goes into the back so it makes like a slide that catches the chips and they slide into the box. It doesn't catch all of them, but when it needs to be emptied there is much less mess to deal with. Then I just take my shop vac and vacuum out what is left behind. Good luck to you. Hopefully you will get your problems figured out and then I'm sure you will love the chopper.
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Thanks Pat and everyone else too!

So an up date on what I have been chopping. I did a Framerica paper covered moulding and I did 4 frames last night, I was very happy with the results! Pictured is a finished frame and one image showing the problem I had. I cut the long sides first and then when one would booger up I used it as the short side. As I was cutting the moulding the pedal felt different with some of the cuts and I would have a bad cut, always on the right side, the left was good. I think the mfd has tuff spots that I would hit. Sounds strange but it sure felt different.
Thanks again

Sam

20190626_091432.jpg 20190626_091834.jpg
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
That is weird and like nothing I have seen before. On the very few occasions I cut MDF on my Morso it felt different from wood and did not cut as well. I also found that, for some reason, the Morso did not like linen covered slips and sometimes gave me gaps on the inside - like when cutting hard wood.

If your machine is cutting well and giving you tight, clean mitres in soft wood mouldings that means it is fine and this problem is more about the moulding than the machine.

Maybe someone who has had more experience with MDF moulding can offer an explanation.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I've cut great big slabs of MDF on a Morso and it does behave differently compared with 'proper' wood.
Its more consistent, but quite dense. It dulls the blades faster and you must have sharp blades to get a good cut.
Same with linen covered liners.

MDF moulding is cheap for a reason. :confused:
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
"Cheap" to buy, but expensive in terms of frustration, time, wear on blades, and often reinforcement needed to make it strong enough.
I hate the stuff.
:cool: Rick
Exactly.

This sort of moulding is geared toward the mass production market where price is everything. Same with Poly and such stuff.
Indie framers are attracted to the low price but using it more often than not cost a heap more cash than using a 'proper' moulding.
The people who benefit from MDF moulding have factory setups that can deal with it.

I've used MDF on frames where I want a center panel (no knots and no pores in the wood), but its edged each side by a real wood moulding.



 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
samcrimm-091422.jpg Update, So I now have two sets of blades and what a difference it makes, and I am very pleased with my cuts now. It is great not going to my hanger and sawing, it always seems that the blade cut just a little off and I would have a very small gap. Of course I don't now! I was having trouble getting my chopper cuts right and I called Joe and we talked and it got me thinking to call Jill at Tech Mark and she had the answer to my dilemma. I have attached a picture of my ruler scale on my older chopper.
So for this example you see two rulers and the top one is for the width of the moulding your chopping in this case mine is just over .5 of an inch so you would set that number to match on the bottom scale for the moulding length of 16.5 with an 1/8 added. I hope I described that where you can understand. It finally make sense. And I hope this help the next person in setting up and chopping moulding.

samcrimm-091422.jpg
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
That is so weird :confused: and I was pretty much lost, that machine has to be about as old as me:rolleyes: (not really). Jill at Tech Mark is a real pleasure to speak to and she knows her business.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Sam I don't see a piece of tape on the top scale. Are you doing this?
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Tedh,
Your right no tape! Don't need it now and it didn't work anyway! That is what got me hunting for answers, looked at the downloaded owners manual and it was so Greek to me, then I called Joe and I sent him picture etc. And then he got me thinking and I called Jill and she had the answer! She had been asked before more than once too. The top scale is for the width of your moulding and you set that number to the bottom scale which is the size of your frame. If I didn't explain it good enough call me, maybe I can explain better over the phone. And if you have an OLD chopper like I do, the fancy scale with the angle lines won't work on this model. Been wondering why but Jill said it's not set up to use a scale.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think the commonly-used method is to put a piece of tape, marked at the molding width, on the top scale so you don't have to remember the width. At the start of a new molding, I cut a quarter inch long, then measure and adjust the tape mark. Fast.
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
My old Morso looked very much like the one in his pic except for being calibrated in millimetres. It also had a measuring scale set across the table just to the right of the blades for measuring the moulding width. That way there was no real need to remember the width. Those sticky scales can be bought from almost any machinery dealer.
 

samcrimm

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I think the commonly-used method is to put a piece of tape, marked at the molding width, on the top scale so you don't have to remember the width. At the start of a new molding, I cut a quarter inch long, then measure and adjust the tape mark. Fast.
Tedh
I just reread your post and no reason to use tape. And I use the measuring tape on the chopper. And I understand the remembering part.... And for that use I agree. Thanks Sam
 
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