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NEW class ideas for WCAF

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
I'm working on some new class topics- based on requests from attendees from the PPFA and WCAF conventions.

One is "Framing LARGE items". It deals with sourcing over-oversized materials, frame construction and corner support, backing materials, ways of framing very heavy things like large mirrors, etc.

The other is about shop safety. In the insurance class I taught this year, many who attended were unaware of a "Right To Know" book or what MSDS sheets are. They also were unjustifiably fearful of a Workers Comp Safety Audit (not from OSHA - but a preventative review from your insurance carrier to be sure you can pass an OSHA inspection). This class would cover safety methods and topics that may be overlooked.

Any other thoughts?
 
888

JFeig

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
both topics are good ideas.


I have seen many discussions here on the Grumble where people consider anything over 32x40 a real challenge. Much less stretching a 48 x 96 or better canvas or framing a work on paper in similar size.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
I definitely like the large framing idea, especially if you include information on sourcing materials and how to make sure you don't disrupt your work flow and lose money on the job.
All great points- and emphasized about the MOTHER OF ALL FRAMING PROJECTS - by Suzanne Smeaton from Eli Wilner when discussing the ginormous frame they worked on in "spurts" so it would not shut down their shop!
 

The Wavy Framer

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
As soon as I saw the thread title, my thoughts were.... shop safety and of course, Framing Large :) :thumbsup:

Rob, if you are teaching both..... sign me up now :)

oh..... and a double class on Strip Lining :)

I bet you could fill a class on tips and tricks. You showed a few in the Strip Lining class that made my jaw drop it was so brilliant.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
1. Classes tend to cover a lot of information and it is easy to miss important details. Several framers have suggested splitting the 2-hour course content in half and having less comprehensive, 1-hour sessions, which might make it easier to absorb the information.

2. Develop a series of 30-45 "quickie" classes on single or limited topics, such as how to cut acrylic, or ACM, or how to make edge supports, or a platform mount, or how to clean, lubricate, and adjust a mat cutter or glass cutter, etc.

3. At major venues, present classes more than once. Popular classes sell out, and framers may have to miss a class they want in order to attend another one. Having two sessions of the same class at different times would make it easier for framers to attend all of their targets.

4. Combining 2. and 3. above: For small venues, such as PPFA chapter meetings and distributor events, two instructors could concurrently present a group of four to six "quickie" sessions in the morning, and then present them again in the afternoon. That way, everyone could attend all of the sessions.

5. Schedule 1-hour panel & roundtable discussions on limited topics, such as how to use Facebook or Pinterest, or how to handle a problem employee, or how to deal with a difficult customer, etc.
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
I would like to see the class on framing large & monster size items. The other is less pertinent to me as I no longer have employees to worry about.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
The other is less pertinent to me as I no longer have employees to worry about.
But you do have a spouse and children. :)

Certainly safe practices, fire extinguishers (what kind, how big), avoidance of and storage of certain chemicals, grounding of dust extraction equipment hoses, blade guards and retractors, proper contents of first aid kits, eye, hearing and respiratory protection and other "safety" practices would be of benefit to keep you around longer? :)
 

i-m-chickie

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Nic and I went to Ken Baur's Accountant-ie class. I felt it was WAY more info than the class title implied. The tax topics were helpful, but he mentioned things on sales and profitability I would have like to seen expounded upon. Perhaps two additional classes.

Loved the Design Star thing by Larson Juhl. Would have been nice to see that offered more broadly. Would have been cool for more of us to show off. Since friending many of ya'll on FB I get to see some SUPER COOL framing. I would have LOVED to see more framers showcased.

LOVED the Champions in Conservation thing...would be cool if other companies asked for stuff from those of us in the trenches...Seeing all the examples in the trade booths was awesome. Could have been even amazing-er if there was some of the crazy projects we all do in there. Andy's FABULOUS Vase Case. Nobody makes a map look as fab as Randy does. Maybe more Sports stuff, I know a framer that does that awesome...can't remember who.:eek::eek:
Many of us do retail as well, more ideas or thoughts or even a class on diversifying your shop.

And a personal mission of my own....I counted THREE pieces of Needlework on the Trade Floor. I hope to change that myself...Because NONE of those represent the Opus Magnums coming out of my shop.

Another though, many of us were eating on the fly. Rob and Capax's class that served a proper meal with it was really lovely...AND HAD JELLO SHOTS (Ya'll hears me right! J_E_L_L_O S_H_O_T_S) Ya'll should have seen some of the faces of those framers when it was EXPLAINED :faintthud: What they were....one fella openly BLUSHED! I haven't seen so many skirts blown up in years...and most of 'em on the fellas!

It was super nice to see recognition. We surround art, we ain't the art, and aren't thanked or spoiled a ton...we are but you know.
My aim for next year is MORE classes. Compete all I can. Make new friends. Make an impact and be impacted by some of the grand folk I met. Meet as many eyes as I can, and smile. Make sure no one leaves discouraged. And definitely stay in a nicer room. I need to post a pic of the view from room 666.

Oh, and a Pancake breakfast SOMEWHERE!
 

Artrageous

PFG, Picture Framing God
Every time the WCAF moves to a different venue it takes a while to get acclimated to the new place.

An organized pub crawl would help. 1 drink at each bar and then move on to the next.

Think of it as herding drunken cats.
 

Grey Owl

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Rob, you know I sometimes look at things from a different prospective, so here goes.

First, I loved the new classes that are looking to the future and expanding on the "cutting edge" for most framers, and I hope PPFA / WCAF continues to do this. Because our industries are changing, we definitely need to look at new ways and new opportunities.

For example, with the advent of 3D printers, I can see where sometime in the future we might be able to have frames printed from such a 3D printer so we would not need to chop and cut all of our frames. Hopefully not in my framing lifetime, but It will happen. Some police force people are concerned about being able to use a 3D printer to make hand guns. And I guess there are now some $2,000 versions on the market. The better ones cost more.

Likewise, I see many of our framing customers going to the box stores for various reasons, so I believe independents need to offer something the box stores can't really do. Maybe we could look in the rear-view mirror to revisit some of the past successes: I believe that Ellen's Sew and Sew was excellent in this - something very unique that the boxes can't really do. Also Paul McFarland's class on French Mats.

A couple of other ideas:
....
First, with our computerized mat cutters, we can cut ovals, circles, etc. in mats. Some of the older frame shops had oval glass cutters, but how many of the newer ones do? Do the new computerized mat cutters cut ovals and circles out of glass? I don't know, but I don't think so. {if they do, then I'm all wet as I often am}

And how many newer framers would not consider oval frames because they can't cut the glass? I believe we are getting a small resurgence of older style frames from some of the historical period TV shows; this can include ovals and circles. Should we offer another glass cutting class like the one that Baer offered 5 or 6 years ago that shows how to cut circles and ovals out of glass? I'm working on an oval needlepoint right now. Yes, I can buy glass, but I want Museum. Without Baer's class I would not have had a clue.

...
Another option is expanding on finishing frames. Yes we have excellent classes on how to change finishes on frames, how to leaf frames, etc., but for most of us leafing is probably not a realistic option.

There are some wonderful hardwood framing companies [such as Vermont Hardwoods, a grumble sponsor, and others], that offer raw wood that can be finished much easier than guilding or refinishing or re-guilding with metal leaf, and offer something unique that the box stores can't do.

I believe you also taught such a class about 6 years ago, because I saw all of these people coming out of a class with sawdust all over them. I did not take your class then, but I was told it was excellent. Yes, I have done a few, but I should probably consider doing a few more. I just had a customer feel the finish on one of these hand finished frames, and commented on how smooth and perfect the finish is. Is this another oldie we should consider?
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Every time the WCAF moves to a different venue it takes a while to get acclimated to the new place.

An organized pub crawl would help. 1 drink at each bar and then move on to the next.

Think of it as herding drunken cats.
I'll teach that class!

But seriously folks I'll be here all week! Rob and Jim's idea are all solid, I am all for an oversize art class, shop safety.

Social Media class, I missed Kirstie's class but I did attend the Chapter Leaders Conference and Ron Cates of Constant Contact gave a fantastic presentation on email marketing. I would like to see more of this, "How to build a email newsletter".

I enjoyed John's class on how to build a better web site, but we got bogged down with a slow network connection, there was a lot to cover.

I would also like to see some PPFA classes that are geared directly towards "Running the chapter". Maybe a class on Chapter officer and their roles, the how too's and in's and outs of our local chapters. This type of class I do not want a all day class, but a an hour or 3 times a day where you can drop in and beef up your PPFA knowledge would be good.
 

mbboston

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Oversize class, I would love that.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ill take any class you teach if you give me jell o shots again....:)
 

i-m-chickie

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'll teach that class!


I would also like to see some PPFA classes that are geared directly towards "Running the chapter". Maybe a class on Chapter officer and their roles, the how too's and in's and outs of our local chapters. This type of class I do not want a all day class, but a an hour or 3 times a day where you can drop in and beef up your PPFA knowledge would be good.
Yes, This!
 

JRicheson&Co

True Grumbler
Need a LARGE frame?

Jack Richeson & Co would love to provide the perfect Aluminum Pro Frame for the class of stretching oversized canvassed art. Our Heavy Duty stetcher bars work great up to 144", too. They each have a 1.5" profile. Let me know once we get closer to the date.
 

Frances M.

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I'd be interested in the oversize framing class, though probably more with works on paper and also to include building and using strainers and also the pricing - I've done large projects but feel like the extra time and labor has eaten the profits even though I thought I had it covered!
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Quick thought that just came to mind (and will probably leave just as quickly)

Two classes that I don't remember seeing:

Effective Selling-how to read the client, understanding real needs, close the sale. Not just cookie cutter cell phone salespeople approaches

How to buy effectively-how to negotiate, how to understand the dynamics of buying, how to know how much to ask for, how to monitor effectiveness of a 'better' buy

Truth is most framer/operators could probably benefit hugely from these skills than almost anything else
 

Evan

Grumbler
I gotta agree on the oversize class. If it's offered next year I will take it.
How about some oversized jello shots??
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I like him!!! ^ ^ ^ :D
 

Cliff Wilson

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
... How to buy effectively-how to negotiate, how to understand the dynamics of buying, how to know how much to ask for, how to monitor effectiveness of a 'better' buy ...
Had a rep suggest I teach that class.
Problem is -- what do you teach? The more I thought about it, it's incredably situational.
You sort of have to have a gut feel when your leverage increases and be ready to use the added leverage.

The other problem is that framers seem to be more interested in drawing pretty lines than in going to the bank more often.
I don't think they'd sign up for a class like that, even though many could use it.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I guess that would depend on the price or if someone else offered the same class with an available discount coupon.
Every year I am asked why I am not teaching a class? And all I can say is, I don't know. I have applied to be added to the the class list in the past years and have always been told that they would keep me in mind for next year. But next year never came. Many people have told me that when they fill out the cards as to what classes they would like to see in the future, that they always put my name down to have a class, and yet I am never asked. PPFA chapters all over the country bring me in to teach and I was recognized for my Innovation by them this year, but I am still not asked to teach at the main event. My question is, who decides what classes PPFA or the WCAF show has and why are they not giving the people what they want? I don't even charge for my time for heaven sakes, but it doesn't seem to matter!
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Every year I am asked why I am not teaching a class? And all I can say is, I don't know. I have applied to be added to the the class list in the past years and have always been told that they would keep me in mind for next year.
Let’s clear up some confusion. All framing classes fall into one of these two categories:

1. Non-promotional, no specific brand emphasis
Classes on mounting of objects, or stretching canvas, or mounting textiles, or hinging of papers, or formulating profitable prices would all be examples of non-promotional education. The discussions in these classes often include mentions of multiple brands, but the course content is designed to improve the attendees’ knowledge and abilities, and not designed to promote or emphasize a specific brand. Most presenters of these classes are careful to avoid the “infomercial” emphasis on any brand when multiple brands of similar products are available.

Just the same, educators and organizers of educational venues actively seek sponsors for non-promotional classes to reduce the attendees’ cost, even though the course content is not intended to emphasize one brand. For example, a moulding supplier sponsors a cutting & joining class, even though the course content applies to many brands and types of moulding and there is no brand promotion. If a sponsor is not available, then the organizer of the educational venue would have to pay for the presentation and probably would charge more to the attendees.

2. Promotional, with specific brand emphasis
Suppliers often present classes designed to promote the company and its products/services to potential customers. For example, manufacturers of computerized matcutters (CMCs) present classes to promote their machines and software. An insurance company presents a class on business insurance to promote its products. A manufacturer of underpinners presents a class on how to join mouldings using their machines. These classes provide useful, sometimes essential information to the attendees, and often the course content could apply to multiple brands, but the presentation is designed to promote one brand.

At the National Conference/WCAF, the companies that present promotional classes pay for the privilege of using our industry’s largest, most popular, most effective trade show and educational venue to promote their products. The costs are substantial, including the setup, cleanup, and use of a very expensive classroom at the convention hotel, audio/visual equipment and setup, publications, marketing/advertising/promotion, scheduling and registration services provided by the organizer, plus a fair profit to sustain the events year after year. Nothing is free. The only question is who pays for what.

My question is, who decides what classes PPFA or the WCAF show has and why are they not giving the people what they want?
The National Conference/WCAF classes are reviewed and decided by Deborah Salmon at Hobby Publications: 800-969-7176. Last I heard, the PPFA classes are still reviewed and decided by the PPFA Education Committee.

The National Conference/WCAF has flourished for 13 years. PPFA has organized its annual Convention and chapter events for more than twenty-five years, and that trade association is presently gaining strength. By all indications, both of these organizers of framing education have succeeded in “giving the people what they want” for a long time, and presumably will continue to improve their offerings.

I don't even charge for my time for heaven sakes, but it doesn't seem to matter!
It seems odd for a supplier to expect the benefit of promoting the company’s products/services to potential customers, without paying the established price for the privilege.

Pat, having a booth on the trade show floor does not entitle any exhibitor to a free promotional class. It is nice that you are willing to present your own class to promote your own company’s products without being paid. That would benefit your company, but it would not offset the educational venue’s costs or help to sustain the events year after year.

I've never heard of a supplier's request to pay for a promotional class being refused, so I'm pretty sure you would be allowed to do as the other suppliers do, who pay to present their promotional classes, because the opportunty to reach their customers is worth that cost. If it weren't, they wouldn't. But then, most of them could not do what you do in your booth, so that is probably the better alternative for you.
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Let’s clear up some confusion. All framing classes fall into one of these two categories:


Pat, having a booth on the trade show floor does not entitle any exhibitor to a free promotional class. It is nice that you are willing to present your own class to promote your own company’s products without being paid. That would benefit your company, but it would not offset the educational venue’s costs or help to sustain the events year after year.
QUOTE]

I fail to see the difference in what I do as an educator and what you do, Jim. You sell your books. My education is in DVD's. Vivian had an entire business of books and publishing, and she sold her books all the time. That fact never stopped PPFA from allowing her to teach, or the WCAF. The only difference in what I do, and what you or Vivian did is that I not only supply the education, I give them all the parts that they need to do the job....instead of having to run all over and pay many shipping charges to get the parts. When are you and the rest of the industry going to accept the fact that my education and DVD's are what makes it all work? That the business wouldn't exist without my innovation or education any more that Vivian's would have. Just about every framer who has ever purchased my kits will tell you that the tools or parts are not the reason they buy it. The 6 hours of demonstrations are the reason on the DVD's are. It is also why my booth is always the busiest at the show.

Someone in PPFA made the comment that I shouldn't have won the Innovation award because I didn't invent the tools that are so much a part of my education. No I didn't invent the tools, but I did invent EZ-Tach and the hundreds of ways to use many tools and fasteners to make a framers life easier. Give me a break. I'm really getting tired of always being treated by the Guru's of the industry like my ideas are so much less important than theirs.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I have to agree with Pat. There's nothing different to me then someone who is selling their books and teaching it
Obviously certain people's methods have even seeped into the certification exam. Not hard to connect the dots on what books you have to buy to pass.

Pat should be teaching a class. I'd take it. I know a lot more framers who would too.
People ask what we want....... And then there's all this political big boys club ####. Annoying.
 

mbboston

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I have Jim's book and I took his class. Great book and great class- I have learned so much more by taking a class.

I met with Pat off hours. Due to my knee problems, I was not able to stand in a large crowd for several hours and I am grateful to her for accommodating me. Her ideas are fantastic, some products she sells are available in the stores, but you can't buy her knowledge.

I do understand Jim's explanation about vendors teaching a class but Pat's knowledge and ideas are valuable regardless if you get her products or not.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
1. Classes tend to cover a lot of information and it is easy to miss important details. Several framers have suggested splitting the 2-hour course content in half and having less comprehensive, 1-hour sessions, which might make it easier to absorb the information.

2. Develop a series of 30-45 "quickie" classes on single or limited topics, such as how to cut acrylic, or ACM, or how to make edge supports, or a platform mount, or how to clean, lubricate, and adjust a mat cutter or glass cutter, etc.

3. At major venues, present classes more than once. Popular classes sell out, and framers may have to miss a class they want in order to attend another one. Having two sessions of the same class at different times would make it easier for framers to attend all of their targets.

4. Combining 2. and 3. above: For small venues, such as PPFA chapter meetings and distributor events, two instructors could concurrently present a group of four to six "quickie" sessions in the morning, and then present them again in the afternoon. That way, everyone could attend all of the sessions.

5. Schedule 1-hour panel & roundtable discussions on limited topics, such as how to use Facebook or Pinterest, or how to handle a problem employee, or how to deal with a difficult customer, etc.
I like this idea, Jim. It would be more work for the educators to develop two short classes than one long one, but for attendees who want targeted information, and for those who are rushing around trying to take everything in, short seminars might be a welcome addition at PPFA/WCAF .

Rob, I think that the large framing class would have great attendance, and it is a fun and interesting topic with good opportunities for visuals.

Shop safety is not as compelling, but more important. Shop safety is a huge topic, and might have to be split. An OSHA approved manual and required documentation (MSDS, Toxic box storage, required safety meetings & documentation, signage, and so on) could be one topic. The other might be safety tips that framers could employ and pass along to fellow workers.

Another topic could involve required documentation for hiring employees, formation of up to date employee manuals and what legal pitfalls to avoid (there are many) in this and all aspects of employment. Perhaps a step-by step workbook for the framer who is hiring his or her first employee. I think that framers in that position, who have not had to go through all of the proper steps, would jump at a class that sent them home with "how-to" material for a turnkey employer/employee system. Of course, this could be construed as legal advice, so one would have to be careful to avoid that. I know most of the current law on this topic, but as you know, requirements change from year to year. Finding just the right person (not me) to address and keep up with the whole gamut of human relations would be key.

We would take the oval/circle glass cutting class. We break glass all them time when freehand cutting ovals to go in customer's frames, and we could use some tips. You think you know how to do this until someone is waiting for you to "just cut some glass for my old frame." Baer?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I fail to see the difference in what I do as an educator and what you do, Jim. You sell your books...
The differences are clear, Pat. My classes have never been designed to sell books. PPFA, PFM, and other book sellers do that. In classes, the limit of my promotion is to suggest the attendees buy one for reference. I keep some books at the shop, in case someone asks to buy one from me, but I do not promote direct sales or make a living selling books. On the other hand, the purpose of your class would be to promote your products.

My classes explain framing methods, which involve many different products, which are available from different suppliers, but I do not sell any of them. In contrast, your only motive for teaching is to promote the products you sell. I am a frame shop owner and have no direct interest in selling any product. You do. The differences are clear.

The only difference in what I do, and what you or Vivian did is that I not only supply the education, I give them all the parts that they need to do the job...
You give them the parts? No, you sell them the parts.

When are you and the rest of the industry going to accept the fact that my education and DVD's are what makes it all work?
Pat, that seems well established. By all indications, your DVDs provide good information for the framers who buy them. Has anyone suggested otherwise?

I'm really getting tired of always being treated by the Guru's of the industry like my ideas are so much less important than theirs.
You perceive criticism where it does not exist. As far as I know, nobody has compared the importance of your ideas to anyone else's. Your ideas, your products, and your DVDs may be the very best in the industry, and you do a good job of promoting them. But if you want to sell them in a classroom, you have to pay for that.

Pat, you imply that you are not allowed to sell Attach EZ ideas, products, and DVDs in WCAF classrooms. But if you were willing to pay the established price, like all others who offer promotional classes, then you would be welcome to do that. Others realize you are not the victim you portray yourself to be. You should realize that, too.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
I'm really getting tired of always being treated by the Guru's of the industry like my ideas are so much less important than theirs.
Very disappointed to hear you say that, Pat.

Sure seems to me that you received a MAJOR honor at this year's PPFA Convention. (The Vivian Kistler Award for Innovation - congratulations!)

Please don't make this "Guru" regret his nomination of you for the award.

 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Obviously certain people's methods have even seeped into the certification exam.
If you disagree with the methods endorsed in the CPF or MCPF programs, you could volunteer on the PPFA Certification Board and campaign to change that. But for the record, in this thread Pat is complaining about free access to a classroom, not about the CPF exam.

Not hard to connect the dots on what books you have to buy to pass.
CPF and MCPF candidates do not have to buy any books. PPFA chapters have libraries and lend all of the books, some of which were donated to PPFA for that purpose.

... And then there's all this political big boys club ####. Annoying.
What Club? Deborah Salmon is the decision-maker for National Conference/WCAF Expo classes. She established the rules years ago. If you think she would tolerate any "political big boys club ####", her phone number is given above. I'm sure she would enjoy talking with you about that.
Pat should be teaching a class. I'd take it. I know a lot more framers who would too.
Pat could teach her promotional class if she were willing to pay the price. Considering that you and "a lot more framers" would take it, perhaps Pat should reconsider.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Everyone asks what WE..... AS FRAMERS WANT FOR CLASSES.....

Obviously there's a NEED AND WANT for Pat's class. Instead you throw out the offical class bible guidelines at her.

You teach your classes based on your methods..... isn't that why people come to them and PAY YOU to teach it?? Don't you suggest certain products in your class to use when making mounts or your glass enclosures?? You are making those companies money right? Plus you promote your books. :shrug:

I honestly see no difference it what you teach and what she teaches on the show room floor.....other than you get a room to do it in and you get paid.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Nic, I do understand. However, picture another supplier and ask yourself how you would feel if they would charge you for classes when they show you how to use their product?

Would Pat teach all kinds of mounting, or just how to use her products? Or would she include other products, by different suppliers, as well?
I do see the difference.

It's kinda like, hey, let me sell you my product and no, you don't have to pay me for showing you how to use said product. That doesn't seem right either.

I don't know how far Jim goes into promoting his book while teaching a class, so can't say anything about that, but even so, he doesn't sell the materials itself as far as I know? He is teaching, he wrote a book about what he teaches. Pretty much what Vivian did.
That to me seems different. (although of course it's better for him if he sells more books and classes).
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Obviously there's a NEED AND WANT for Pat's class. Instead you throw out the offical class bible guidelines at her...
The people who decide "the official class bible guidelines" for WCAF are identified above. Have you called them? You do know I have nothing to do with their rules or decision-making process, right?

I honestly see no difference it what you teach and what she teaches on the show room floor...
If you are suggesting that Pat's class would be any less promotional than, say, Wizard's class on how to use their CMCs, could you imagine Gunnar or Valiani sponsoring it? Could you imagine Tach-It, Avery, or Dennison sponsoring Pat's class? More to the point, could you imagine Pat agreeing to teach it for any company other than her own?
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
I don't get what is so hard to understand here. Somebody has to pay for the room to teach a class right? Is Pat suggesting she should be given a room to demonstrate her wares? What about all the other sponsors (suppliers and manufacturers) who have to pay to use the space? Isn't that how it works? You pay for the space. You demonstrate your product and in turn you sell your product to those you demonstrate to. Or you charge a fee for your time to share your knowledge. Either way the fee for the class or the sales of your product would offset your price you paid for the room. What am I not understanding? I don't see where anybody is being treated unfairly.
 

Myrna

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
There is a class that I have always wanted to take but have never seen it offered. With all of the shorts I have running around in the backroom, I would love to know how to make really nice looking readymades.

I even have a title:
How to Make Beautiful Readymades - Front and Back.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
SO I guess the issue is Pat not teaching her own class...

You either are selling yourself and methods................. or a PRODUCT. Right??
Is that the blurry line everyone seems to be confused over?

SO essentially........ someone NOT AFFILIATED with her company..... can teach a mounting class HER METHODS and even use her tools......... but not promote it or her..... and they can be an everyday teacher like the rest.

Yah that's not messed up at all. :nuts:
 

EMcBride

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
There is a class that I have always wanted to take but have never seen it offered. With all of the shorts I have running around in the backroom, I would love to know how to make really nice looking readymades.

I even have a title:
How to Make Beautiful Readymades - Front and Back.
I don't know why your post made me think of it. But I was at a restaurant in Phoenix where there was a HUGE mirror. And I'm talking easily 7' x 9'. And the pieced together what looked like moulding scraps of all kinds to make one big frame. I'm sure there was some sort of base to support everything, but there's an idea. It actually looked pretty good. Very unique. Nothing was perfectly butted up to another piece, very abstract form. Something on a smaller scale maybe?
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
Let's be sure that everyone is on the same page:

There are TWO venues in question; The National Conference at the WCAF Expo, and the PPFA Convention which is held concurrently and at the same venue. Next year, both events move to the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas. The show dates are January 20 - January 22, 2014 with the National Conference beginning on Sunday, January 19.

Each of the organizers has criteria for their classes. Instructors such as Jim and myself have NO CONTROL over the class schedules, who is invited to teach (I don't even know if I will be invited back next year), or WHAT they will be asked to teach.

For the National Conference, the Director of Education is Deborah Salmon. Her phone number is 800-969-7176 and her e-mail is dsalmon@hobbypub.com

She is as far from the "good old boys network" as one can imagine and works hard to create a class schedule that is varied and VETTED with instructors who not only know their subjects, but can also teach up to her standards. She reads EVERY evaluation and counts on the attendees to assist her in making the classes she offers worthy of your attendance. Those who teach year after year have demonstrated that they are worthy to be asked back to teach and there are some who have not been asked back as well.

At the Conference, there are TWO types of classes; those put on by PFM and those put on by the vendor sponsoring the class.

For the classes offered by PFM, there are specific criteria that the instructors must follow, including a policy of not selling or favoring a specific product. One can make a reference to a category of product (i.e. "Alpha-cellulose matboard) but cannot single out a specific brand. So, if Pat wanted to teach a class on "Methods of Attachment of Objects in Shadow Boxes" - she could not mention the BRAND of product she was demonstrating and would be obligated to show and demonstrate (without favoritism) product made/distributed by companies other than her own.

The same for a class on "Touching Up or Altering the Finish of Frames". She would have to demonstrate (and list where one could buy) touch up materials and could not refer to EZ Fix and Fill specifically. And, she would have to "pitch" the class to Deborah who would make the determination on whether the class meets her criteria and would be a good "investment" - since PFM is financially responsible for the class.

SOME of the PFM classes have a "sponsored by" tag. The sponsorship is open to ANY vendor who shows on the trade show floor and the money received for the sponsorship helps PFM offset the cost of presenting the class. For the sponsorship, the sponsoring vendor HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over the class content and realizes that a "competitors" product may/will be demonstrated and discussed. They get their name associated with the class, an opportunity to distribute their literature/samples (though many vendors do not avail themselves of this benefit) and a Laurel and Hardy handshake.......plus there are other incentives offered to vendors related to their trade show participation to encourage them to help offset the cost of education.

There is an entirely different kind of class called; a company sponsored class - where for a significantly greater fee, the vendor gets all of the support from PFM (registration, class monitoring, ticketing, the ROOM, tables, chairs, AV support, catering access, etc.) - but PFM is NOT responsible or controlling of the content, or of the FEE charged. Some classes are "free" but it is up to the vendor. The VENDOR hires the instructor and provides the class content. The VENDOR controls the class content and the entire class can be specific/proprietary to the vendor's product. The VENDOR can even sell their product at the back of the class. So, Pat could have a class on the Sunday before the trade show opens called, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Attach EZ" and could even have someone with a video camera (at HER EXPENSE) showing close-up what she is doing/demonstrating on a BIG SCREEN so the 100 people who I KNOW would take the class could see what she is doing. Pat could charge $75 per ticket or could offer a $25 coupon to attendees towards the purchase of her product. Or she could charge $100 and each attendee would get a "kit" as a part of taking the class.

The "Lunch and Learn" that I taught about business insurance was such a class. CAPAX sponsored the class, bought lunch for all attendees (and as an extra added attraction, Jello Shots :)) and completely controlled the class content. They hired me as the presenter and "creator" of the original PowerPoint, then completely monitored the contents, modifying it where they felt it needed to be "tweaked." They (CAPAX) was 100% financially responsible for the cost of the class. If I failed to present a class that they felt was worthy, they could/can ask someone else to teach it next year (and they own the rights to the PowerPoint I developed.)

In any event, the opportunity to present either type of class is completely controlled by The National Conference and PFM.

The PPFA also offers education, some of which is vetted to provide CEU (continuing education units) required of all MCPF's to maintain their credential. The contents also have to adhere to the PPFA Guidelines (if applicable) for the topic presented. The PPFA has even stricter criteria of NO COMMERCIALIZATION towards a specific product. So, while there are vendors who make the "same" product, the generic description must be used.

The PPFA Education offered is determined by the Education Committee. The last time I checked, there were a mix of women and men on the committee - again, not even remotely a "good old boys" network - and the committee, staffed by PPFA members/volunteers) changes. If ANYONE wants to be a member of the committee- please contact the PPFA at 800 762-9287 or the Executive Director, Elaine Truman at etruman@pmai.org

The PPFA tries very hard not to commercialize their educational offerings, but as costs have escalated, they have started accepting class sponsorship. The sponsorship is completely philanthropic and the sponsors have absolutely NO CONTROL over the class content. Examples this year are Larson Juhl's stepping up to bring in Suzanne Smeaton for the Keynote Address and her fantastic class on the History of Frames. Others would be Tru-Vue sponsoring the UV Lighting Class (which had to be FACT and not opinion based) and also Jack Richeson sponsoring the Stretching Class - though MANY types of stretcher bars were shown.

PPFA DOES offer a commercial opportunity at the Vendor Showcase where vendors (for a fee) get a table top to present their products at a social event. This year's event was very well attended and Attach EZ, Tru Vue, and Jack Richeson (and many others) all were there.

OK cue the violins-

I don't get how there can be the misconception that anyone teaching at the venues is getting rich. I also do not believe that many of you have no idea how many hours go into the creation of a two hour class - with the majority of the "development" time completely uncompensated. So for the two hours of teaching, there may be 100 hours of prep. plus the requirement of running a business at the same time, plus the "recovery time" after returning from a week in Las Vegas as an educator.

I will tell you that being stopped on the trade show floor or receiving e-mails telling me that something I taught in a class helped someone be more successful does make seem worthwhile.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
SO essentially........ someone NOT AFFILIATED with her company..... can teach a mounting class (using) HER METHODS and even use her tools......... but not promote it or her..... and they can be an everyday teacher like the rest.
Wow, Nicole- you really don't get it?

Have you even read Pat's posts? SHE even said in a prior thread that NO ONE can teach "her" class or demonstrate her products........but her!

And yes, someone could teach a "mounting" class that demonstrates the process of using a "tagging gun" as a method of attachment - but not the entire class based on it - and if it were a PPFA class, would have to adhere to the Guidelines for framing needlework or canvas.

Same for the glass class I taught. To be considered "Conservation Grade Glass," the PPFA standard/guideline states that it must filter 97% of the UV. PERIOD
So even if there are glass products out there that "may look better", since they only filter out 92% of the UV, they cannot be considered "Conservation Grade". And in the class there cannot be a discussion as to whether or not 92% is "enough" protection. Since it does not meet the standard, it is NOT acceptable for the criteria.

Pat has the same "issue" with her tagging guns/tags. She is NOT happy about the Guidelines established by the PPFA. Yet the Guidelines exist and if one wants to become a MCPF, one must adhere to the standards. If one teaches a PPFA class, one must teach to the established standards/guidelines.
 

stcstc

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Same for the glass class I taught. To be considered "Conservation Grade Glass," the PPFA standard/guideline states that it must filter 97% of the UV. PERIOD
So even if there are glass products out there that "may look better", since they only filter out 92% of the UV, they cannot be considered "Conservation Grade". And in the class there cannot be a discussion as to whether or not 92% is "enough" protection. Since it does not meet the standard, it is NOT acceptable for the criteria.
how does this work without mentioning o being based around a particular brand


isnt there only one brand of glass that does this, tru vue?
 

Pat Kotnour

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Nic, I do understand. However, picture another supplier and ask yourself how you would feel if they would charge you for classes when they show you how to use their product?

Would Pat teach all kinds of mounting, or just how to use her products? Or would she include other products, by different suppliers, as well?
I do see the difference.

Yiva, this is the biggest problem for me and the most misunderstood one. What you and so many Grumbler's, PPFA members and educators don't seem to understand is that my product IS ME! MY DVD's and educational program IS Attach-EZ. Without the education there is no Attach-EZ. The tools and parts that I put in my kits are only aids to help the framers preform the tasks that are demonstrated on the 4 (6 hours) DVD's. If you visited my booth and you saw what I do, you would know that. And if you understood what I have done for the industry you would also know I am not in compitition with any compnay, because there is no other company like mine. Just like there was no other company like Vivian's. The fact is that I promote many companies who sell products into the framing industry. Tru-Vue, 3M, Wizard, Beinfang, Crescent, Banibridge, Frame Tek, Cool Tak, International Moulding, Larson Juhl to name a few. I don't expect anything for plugging their products. I do it because it gives good information to framers to help them.

Rob, why would you be disappointed about my comment about the Guru's? I didn't point fingers at anyone. Your response was uncalled for and I'm sorry if you regret your nomination. PPFA is a good organization that I have sent many new framers to and I am proud to have been given this award. Thank you for allowing me to enjoy it...if for only a few moments.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Pat, first of all, my name is Ylva; YLVA, just for the records.

Second of all, I understand this perfectly. Rob's explanation made perfect sense.

I do not doubt you or your company or your products. I use them myself from time to time. I even watched the dvds. But you have to see that there is a conflict, if you teach a class where only your own products are used. It means you are selling your products. It means you are teaching how to use your products.

I have no problem with that. But there is a difference in the set up. As Rob explained, you are free to teach a class. You can't expect it to be free though.
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
Did anyone else notice that Direct Moulding had their own room at the WCAF?

I don't know if this was because they got bumped out of the main show floor or because they wanted their own space. I also don't know if this was set up through the show, the conference or direct with the hotel. Pat, I could see you doing this and then you could have your own schedule of classes with listed start times. You could then have a scheduled class for attaching items and one for frame touching up etc.

I don't know if this is practical from the expense side of the equation.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
isnt there only one brand of glass that does this, tru vue?
Guess you weren't in the class :)?

Actually there are several manufacturers whose product filter 97% + including groglass, whose artglass protect filters 100%

And I sort of misspoke- it isn't just GLASS I was referring to, but should have said, glazing as the criteria also includes acrylic products. There are several acrylic manufacturers/converters in addition to Tru-Vue whose acrylic filters out more than 97% (Evonik (acrylite), Altuglas (plexiglass) , Plaskolite (optix uvf) to name a few).

The class wasn't/isn't about WHOSE product filters out 97% - but about the mechanics/physics/science of light and light energy. So it isn't product specific - nor does it say whose product is "better" - even though it was "sponsored" by Tru-Vue.

What the class DID say, is that to be considered as offering "Conservation" protection, the criteria requires a minimum of 97% filtration. FACT and not brand specific.

The class also discussed the method of filtration/ blocking (reflection vs absorption) and discussed that the "measurement" of the filtration factor remains constant from the absorption method and degrades (varies with the angle of incidence) with the reflection method. FACT and NOT brand specific. ANY glazing product manufactured with absorptive qualities will have a different ability than one manufactured reflective qualities. Again, not brand specific or judgmental.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
Did anyone else notice that Direct Moulding had their own room at the WCAF?
Yes they did! Steve Hegseth found a "loophole" and ran with it! His cost of the room for the ENTIRE event cost less than a booth on the tradeshow floor - and he brought in his own coffeemaker instead of paying the $7 per cup it would have cost for the hotel to provide it :)

But, he PAID for the room.


Pat, I could see you doing this and then you could have your own schedule of classes with listed start times.
But who would run her booth? How could Pat possibly be in two places at once? Who could possibly teach her classes BUT her?

Barbara also thought Pat could do the same thing - but move her booth there too and conduct both classes AND sell her product from the room.
 

stcstc

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Guess you weren't in the class :)?

Actually there are several manufacturers whose product filter 97% + including groglass, whose artglass protect filters 100%

And I sort of misspoke- it isn't just GLASS I was referring to, but should have said, glazing as the criteria also includes acrylic products. There are several acrylic manufacturers/converters in addition to Tru-Vue whose acrylic filters out more than 97% (Evonik (acrylite), Altuglas (plexiglass) , Plaskolite (optix uvf) to name a few).
no wish i was, hoping to make the trip across the pond for next year though

the only float glass is from truvue no?

i know this isnt the place to debate that standards etc, but the only one with single sheet stuff is truvue no? the artglass is the laminated stuff etc
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
My thought would be to have a classroom/booth that was not part of the floor.

IMO the real answer would be to have a larger booth on the show floor and have a large monitor hanging up and using a web cam to shoot what she is doing in real time. I would also suggest having a schedule of mini classes (15 minute) that would start on the hour, then she would have 45 minutes to write orders and answer questions before the next class.

These are just ideas and are worth as much as they cost. :)
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
....the only float glass is from truvue no?
Yes, only Tru Vue has a separate coating to filter UV. But as Rob pointed out, there are several acrylic glazing products that meet the standard.

I don't know why no other company produces a separate UV-filtering coating. Maybe one day that will change, but today, that is just how it is.
 

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
What you and so many Grumbler's, PPFA members and educators don't seem to understand is that my product IS ME!
No, Pat. We get it. We get it all too well.

What you don't understand is that BECAUSE the product is you and you are the product, it will be unlikely for you to teach classes without falling into the "paid sponsorship" category. But THAT opportunity is wide open to you - and there are LOTS of people who would pay to take your classes (me included - and I would send my staff too.) The choice is YOURS.
 
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