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Open on Saturdays??

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by framerbob, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. framerbob

    framerbob CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    As I've mentioned in my cost of good thread, I'm analyzing a lot of numbers to see where I can be more profitable. One question I've always had is whether or not we should keep the shop open on Saturdays. Currently we are open Mon.-Sat. 10-6. I've known for a long time that Saturday is our least busy day I just never had a number to put on it. But I just ran the numbers and discovered that last year only about 3% of our yearly sales are placed on a Saturday. And there were NO orders placed on about half of the Saturdays we were open.

    -Based on that should I just close Saturdays?
    -Should I have reduced hours like 10am-1pm?
    -Only be open the first 2 Saturdays of each month (it appears that the 1st 1/2 of the month is busier than the latter 1/2)?

    I was taught in some of Vivian's classes that we should always be open Sat and Sun. or else were are loosing out to the big boxes and other framers who are. But I know that is not true in all cases. I feel like I need to be open Saturdays for my working customers that cant get her during the week. Also we do have a fair amount of order Pick Up on Saturday, so I know customers like that convenience. But the numbers don't lie...it is costing us more than we are making to be open on Saturday.


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  2. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    I would think that Saturdays and Mondays would be the busiest days?

    Sat is our best day.
  3. mona

    mona CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I am open Sat 10-4, and thinking of going till 5. It is a big convience to customers to be open on sat. I am closed sun-mon. We have a very busy downtown especialy when the farmers market is open. Lots of people looking and then framing later. If it weren't just me and I didn't spend the last 4 years working 6 days a week I would be open sun mon also.
  4. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Close Saturdays except by appointment and raise your everyday prices by 3 to 5%

    Easy game.

    Most retail purchasing is done between mid-day Friday and mid-day Sunday. So if you're not available then you're missing out on the most popular time that consumers tend to shop. But your own personal history trumps the pundits general advice. Apparently your business, whether it's because of location or image or customer base, bucks the trend.
  5. MaJa

    MaJa SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I agree with Johnny.

    Do what works for your business. If it does not pay to be there, don't be there. And look, you get an extra day off!! If you start getting complaints, you can always go back.

    We are also usually very busy on Saturdays (not too day, tho).
  6. Framing:

    Framing: In Corner

    Or think about trying to get more customers on Saturday, it may be a case that for some reason you are not attracting customers who shop on Saturday.

    It could be a simple case that potential customers are just not aware you open Saturday.

    That said if it was me I would just close on Saturday and enjoy the down time.
  7. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    MaJa's right too. If they have problems they will let you know. Since we're still short-handed we've been wanting to close Sundays all year except for the 4th quarter holiday season, but we get too many complaints and too many people saying "We're so glad you're open." But we're completely exhausted.

    So if you don't get comments then doubly don't sweat it. But keep a good eye on your sales trends anyway.
  8. JWB9999999

    JWB9999999 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Given your current numbers, I would just close on Saturdays. But lots of frame shops are open half days that day, and that's something that you could try.

    One question for you though. Even if you aren't getting many customers that day, are you busy then? Saturday is the next-to-least-busiest day for us. But I really wouldn't consider closing that day as we get LOTS of work done then. Fewer customers means more framing productivity for us. Good day to tackle big projects that cover half the front counter, hard things that require extra concentration, etc.
  9. framerbob

    framerbob CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    [/QUOTE] One question for you though. Even if you aren't getting many customers that day, are you busy then? Saturday is the next-to-least-busiest day for us. But I really wouldn't consider closing that day as we get LOTS of work done then. Fewer customers means more framing productivity for us. Good day to tackle big projects that cover half the front counter, hard things that require extra concentration, etc.[/QUOTE]

    Thats part of the problem...I dont work most Saturdays, I have an employee that covers Saturday for me. When I'm here on a Saturday I get a lot done because as you said its easier to be more productive when your less busy. but I'm usually not here on sat.

    My employee is really just here to work the front counter, take orders, pull out pick ups. She does my weekly shop cleaning and organizing as well. But that still means on average I pay her more to work a Saturday than I make on that Saturday. If she were framing orders than it would be a different scenario because then I'm at least paying her to do production work.

    Common sense would tell you that being open on Saturday is essential, I've seen all the same statistics that everyone else is experiencing in their shops, but for my demographics it just isn't true. so that why I'm struggling with what to do.
  10. i-FRAMER

    i-FRAMER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Saturdays vary for us. We only open till 12 unless by appointment.
    The days i am not busy i use to catch on bookwork, housekeeping etc.
    If it worries you start by reducing your opening hours.
  11. Jeff K

    Jeff K CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Maybe you don't take much work in on Saturdays because your customers know YOU are not there.

    Jeff K
  12. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    If being open on Saturday is costing you more money than it is generating, then you should seriously think about closing on Saturday. Especially if there isn't much foot traffic. When I had my store, I was originally open from 10-6 on Saturday. But it seemed like it got very slow in the middle-to-late afternoon, so I started tracking numbers. I made a chart, showing the days of the week, and breaking each day down by the hours we were open. If a person came into the store between, say, 11 AM and noon on Wednesday, I made a hash mark in that block. If the person purchased something or placed an order, I made a different kind of hash mark. That way I could track when people were coming in, and when people were spending money. I did this for almost an entire year. In general, the results were completely random; I didn't have a day that was consistently busier than any other day. What I did discover, however, is that almost nobody came in after 4 pm on Saturday. Based on that, I closed the shop at 4 pm on Saturday, and gave that time back to myself.

    Now, if the only visitors to your shop on Saturday are picking up pieces, you might want to keep the store open but for a limited period of time. For example, restrict Saturday hours to mornings only. People are running their errands, picking up dry cleaning, etc., so they will put you on the list for the mornings. Or close completely. If they are placing their orders on weekdays, they can pick up on weekdays. As long as they are paid up and you have the space to store their work, it's their problem, not yours.
  13. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I teach art class Saturdays...... plus it gives all the working people time for pick ups and orders....
  14. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    Schedule all your orders to be picked up on Saturday.
  15. EMcBride

    EMcBride SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    My jaw dropped a bit when I saw so little of your sales come on Saturday. That is my busiest day of all.

    What about making Saturdays for appointments only?
  16. stcstc

    stcstc SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    is it more that your member of staff isnt great at closing orders?

    what i would do is work a months worth of saturdays, and see if the figures change when its a different person selling
  17. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I am only closed on sundays. open a shorter day on saturday... mostly cause of softball in the spring and summer. There are a lot of jewish people in my area who's sabbath is on saturdays. Not sure if I am losing business because I am not open sundays... but lately for the first time a few people have called and asked if i am open on sundays.

    I need a day off. I am not a robot. My weeks vary way to much. any day of the week could be the busiest. Saturday used to be the VERY busiest, but lately the weeks have been busier. I just tell people that if they want to come in during the week after hours if they can't make it in earlier, to let me know so we can schedule something.

    Can't tell if this is the right way to do things either, because everyone feels they are imposing by asking you to stay longer. They all say, o no. i will just make it in at some point.... maybe using the word appointment might be better.

    anyways no help here... just showing everything is different for everyone. do what you want... I may start closing monday's in another couple years. A lot of people think Small businesses are closed on monday anyways.... not sure why... I have an open sign up!
  18. Pangolin

    Pangolin SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    When I looked at my sales numbers over the last couple years my Saturdays weren't very busy either. But, the rest of the week was completely random, so it was hard to tell if any day was really busier than another.

    The other shops in the little area I'm in are often closed on Saturdays. One or two are open, but other than the tennis and frozen custard shops, it doesn't seem as though anyone does a lot of business. The foot traffic SHOULD be high on Saturdays, but it isn't, so I'm open 10-2, and then stay over if something desperately needs to be finished or a customer calls to pick up something a little later.
  19. tedh

    tedh PFG, Picture Framing God

    You just know that the big boxes in the suburbs have sucked the life out of any downtown business open on a Saturday.

    How much you want to bet that if you located a frame shop beside Walmart, you'd be doing land office business on a Saturday?
  20. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Oh yeah our downtown location is closed Saturdays and Sundays and if they made me open up to stay in the mall I'd move the whole thing. Different mentality down there. Suburban location, #### I've made a sale today just cuz I'm here framing up some things for the family that I haven't had time to get to but I'll see them in a few hours.
  21. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    By the way make some overlap in your policy and actions. Change your website hours, facebook & google too, and the hours on your door and cards. Work several Saturdays yourself after you do this. Mention that you'll be closing on Saturdays to anyone who comes in on those days. This way you'll irritate as few people as possible.

    When I closed Sunday's then reopened because of complaints I actually created a lot of good will.
  22. Kev@Frames

    Kev@Frames CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I found us pretty much in the same situation as Framerbob. Some saturdays we took no orders, had no-one in. Others were slightly better, but hardly worth opening up for.
    so we shut on saturdays.
    never looked back.
    no impact at all on orders, very little negative feedback from customers. Savings on wages.

    Saturdays used to be our busiest day ten years ago.
    Now I guess it is quieter in town because people go to out-of-town retail parks instead at the weekends.
    However, ten years ago half the stores in town used to close thursday afternoons, a quaint thing we used to have here called "half day closing" which doesn't happen any more.

    I have noticed that several other shops in town have started closing saturdays, or closing early on saturday afternoons.

    business has changed over the last few years, saturday and sunday are our busiest for online-orders, which makes monday and tuesday our busiest workshop days, with the shop counter spread out throughout the week without any particular busy day of the week that you can put a finger on.

    from a personal point of view, closing saturdays has been great.
  23. echavez123

    echavez123 MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Saturdays are hit and miss for us. Customer like to come pick up items on Saturday. This Saturday, no one came through the door, and I felt it was wasteful to have our gallery lights turned on all day. But, Saturday is usually my "catch up" day. I get a lot of work done if not interrupted by customer, lookey-loo's and the phone ringing. And sometimes, though rarely, I get to work on my own art!

    Unless our work slows way down, we will continue to be open on Saturdays cause you just never know who will come through the door.

  24. John Ranes II CPF GCF

    John Ranes II CPF GCF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Look at the big picture...

    As Kev pointed out just above this thread... Saturdays can have the greatest variation in traffic and dollars in the cash drawer, when compared to the other days of the week.

    Although it appears that you've crunched the numbers well to make a determination, you need to look at the bigger picture...
    • Has this pattern just been the past 3-5 years or do you have numbers from the past 10 years to substantiate closing?
    • Can you really monitor pre-paid Saturday pickups... as a couple people have noted, Saturdays are an errand and personal day...especially for folks that work all the time (with disposable income).
    • Are you content with your annual sales volume today or do you want this to increase - I doubt if it will with closed Saturdays.
    • Remember that most of the overhead is paid so can you manitain work volume by being open that 6th day?
    • Retail = Servitude = Long Hours (Period). It's how the game is played....we're part of the game.

    Good luck with your decision.


    P.S. Yesterday was our biggest day of Holy week....traditional a quite week.
  25. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Saturday has always been our busiest day (90 sales yesterday for example, so heaven knows how many people actually through the door), and we always anticipated it would be as most people work Mon-Fri; if I did then Saturday would be my shopping day too, leaving Sunday for the garden (etc).
  26. DTWDSM

    DTWDSM SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I understand that Saturday business can vary, it does for us as well but, 3% of sales on Saturdays? Something does not sound right. You may not actually have much in sales on a Saturday but you should have more than 3% of sales. I think somewhere I read that you do not work on Saturdays, whoever you have working on Saturdays is robbing you blind. Not actually stealing from you but they are not holding their own weight. Also, are you doing anything to encourage your customers to come on a Saturday? Any Saturday only promotions?

    I am sorry but 3% of total sales on Saturday not only does not make cents, it does not make sense.
  27. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    My Saturdays are hit or miss as well, but I usually get a lot of customers picking up. I am still fighting the previous shop's hours, which wasn't open on Saturdays and most people are still very surprised that I am here on Saturdays.....even customers who have been framing with me for a longer time still ask this....

    I do close early, or at least, my hours listed on Sat are 10-2
    I am usually here until 4 but hardly see anything happening after 2:30

    In your place, I might consider just morning hours for pick ups. Not sure if you have the option of being there yourself and maybe switch another day to be home?
  28. Larry Peterson

    Larry Peterson PFG, Picture Framing God

    Since I am now online only, my Saturdays are a little different, but I seem to get the most orders of the week on Saturday night.

    I'm happy to be an alternative to drunk dialing and texting.
  29. framerbob

    framerbob CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I know the numbers sound weird but they are true. I wouldn't have believed it till I added them up.

    -those numbers are only for the past 16 months, I probably need to go back and do at least a 3 year average

    -we are located in a "downtown" area that is about 50% business (none of which are open on Saturday) and 50% retail (Of which most are open Saturday) but that still means that about 60% of the business in the area are closed Saturdays.

    -My daughter is my Saturday Employee (she is 20ys old and in college) so I know she is not "intentionally robbing" me. No question she is not as good as closing a sale as I am, but closing isn't the problem, I have her track how many people come in vs. how many sales and the numbers are almost the same, the problem is people just don't come in.

    -I work about one Saturday a month, so I get at least a little bit of a feel for how Saturdays go. That's why I started this thread...I was working on Saturday and couldn't believe how dead it was, so that got me to crunch the numbers.

    *Of course toward the end of the day, and after I started this thread I had my one and only customer of the day. First time customer, from out of town, just looking up frame shops on the internet - found mine, and placed a $500 order. That's that part that makes it so difficult. I'd hate to be missing out on those opportunities, but that still doesn't mean that it makes financial sense??
  30. Karen

    Karen CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I actually asked my customers over a couple of months on what hours would work best with them and I was shocked to learn that Saturday is the least favorite day, that's customers family time on the weekends. It cost me more to be open on Saturdays than I actually made.

    So we changed our hours and started staying open late one night a week to make up for being closed on Saturday. Our hours are now Mon, Wed and Thurs 9am - 5:30pm, Tuesday 10am - 7pm, (this was a great day that didn't interfer with church and other activities) and Fridays from 9am - 4:30pm (most of my customers wanted to get an early start on the weekend and wanted to leave work and head straight for home). So far it has worked great for us.

    I do however accept appointments on Saturday but only from 9am-11am and I space them out at 30 min intervals, I've only had a few that have requested this and the ones who use it love the one on one time and don't feel rushed, the bonus for me is that I now get my own family time!! If I do have an appointment I'm out of the shop early.

  31. Gene Scott

    Gene Scott True Grumbler

    This a great discussion and I've enjoyed the different suggestions/opinions. I've been struggling with Saturdays also. For example, over the last month, I've seen exactly one framing customer and two antique/collectibles customers on Saturday. I work them all when I'm in town because I can't justify paying one of my coworkers to work with so little business. I'm facing some surgery soon so I made the decision today to start closing Saturdays with the exception of appointments and we'll see how many complaints I get. I'm located in a small town with only one other frame shop which is closed on Saturday. It will be interesting to see my customer reaction after 14 years of being open Saturdays.
  32. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Please keep us updated on how the Saturday thing goes.

    Good luck with your surgery and I hope you recover quickly.
  33. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I've never been busy on Saturday's.
    for those in the same boat.... can you have an open house or gallery afternoon to get people to come out!?!?!

    I chose Saturday's to teach for the reason I wasn't busy... at least there was $$$$$ coming in.

    I cant close since most people pick up that day. :shrug:
  34. ArmyFramer

    ArmyFramer MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I started closing on Sat 2 years ago, raised my prices by about 5% and haven't looked back. My busy days are Mon & Fri, for the 5 yrs I was open on Sat I rarely had anyone come in. Since almost 90% of my customers are military they like to come in during the duty day, M-F 9-1700, so they can "get out of work." I'm usually in on Sat to finish up on some work, but by being closed I don't have to sit here during a set time. If I want to leave I can, if something comes up I can walk out, if a cutomer comes in...great lets make a sale, but the sign says closed and I don't have to be here.

    Now that I think about it, I've gotten more customer by being closed on Sat then I did when I was open!
  35. Gene Scott

    Gene Scott True Grumbler

    Thanks for the good wishes Johnny.
  36. Kev@Frames

    Kev@Frames CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    one thing to think about is that once one or two shops in a locality start to close saturdays, more will follow, and the character of the area will change.

    another thing that I found, and which I certainly wasn't expecting at all, was thet the whole character of my business changed.
    Its strange how some people (customers) seem to take your business more seriously when you work "business hours" instead of "shoppers hours".

    Just some random thoughts on saturday closing:

    If you are going to close saturdays, you can make up for it other days. Extend opening by 30 minutes to catch people going home from work, don't shut for lunch.

    We are all only here once, how many days a week to you want to work.

    If you shut saturdays you will inevitably lose a handful of customers/sales.

    But if your saturdays account for only 3% of your sales, it isn't going to really hit you in the pocket.
    If you put your prices up by just a quarter of a percent you will make up for that, and gain 52 days a year of your own time back. Or save 52 days staff wages costs and also save 52 days of utility overheads (heat/light) either way. And two days off in a row...... your staff also get two days off in a row, which they will appreciate, and into the bargain they'll be happier and fresher on monday when they come back to work.

    Its ironic that as our society becomes more and more 24/7, specially in this country where you can buy anything in supermarkets 24/7 in almost any town or within fiffteen minutes drive, shopkeepers can now pick and choose to have saturdays off.

    Rather than lament the decline of saturday customers, maybe its a cause to celebrate.
    Freedom for the self employed shopkeeper at last

    52 extra days off. :smiley:
  37. KaraK

    KaraK CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I think business hours send strong messages to consumers.

    My Saturday revenues are pretty shabby too, but I'm afraid my potential customers would see M-F only hours they way I do: it gives me the impression that it must be high-end shop that charges so much that they don't need to be open on the weekends, or mostly deals with designers. I know that's not true, but it's the way it feels to me.

    I look at a shop that is only open three our four days a week, or one with really short hours, say 11-4, as not being very serious about their business. On the other hand, I think shops that are open 7 days a week, send a more "for the masses" message, and I would think that their prices are lower than a shop with limited hours, and that maybe their quality and service is not as good. Again, I know this is not necessarily true, but it just creates that impression.

    There is a happy medium somewhere - I am open five days a week (incl. Sat.), and would love to make it six. But since it's just me, that isn't going to happen. Heck, there are weeks when I could be open one day and it would be too much. Like this stupid week.

    I think my current customers would be fine with any changes in hours - but it could steer potential customers to another shop.
  38. John Ranes II CPF GCF

    John Ranes II CPF GCF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yes...I know that each market varies. But...


    How do you expect your customers and potential customer to remember these hours? If it takes a sliderule to figure out when a shop is open...then it's too complicated, IMO.


    Huh? Isn't the pickup process an equal part of being busy?

    Kara - I agree with you. I think that many customers might interpret shorter hours this way. We are in a SERVICE industry and need to be ready when the customer's needs demand service. A good example of this is one of the negative online References that our shop received a few years ago...

    The customer stated that they didn't think that we REALLY wanted their business as it was 9am and we were not open yet. They continued that they felt this way especially because it was Nov-December. Most of you know that retail hours typically start at 10am in a majority of places...but in this customer's mind, we were not open when they needed our services.

    Well said Kara. I think it is important to remember that our business hours are for the convenience of our customers and not us! They should be longer than you think, easy to remember and not complicated.

  39. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I think it all depends what kind of frame shop you have. If you are in a high traffic area with lots of foot traffic; that is very different. If you are, like me, a destination location,your hours can be slightly different as most people find me through my website (hours listed) or by calling me.

    I cannot open all the hours I want to as I also take care of a large family.
  40. Kev@Frames

    Kev@Frames CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I really agree that business hours send a strong message to customers.there's a fine line between "office hours and closed for lunch" and appearing like a "part time enterprise".

    btw we are simply 10-5 mon-fri

    So it looks like your business hours can dictate what sort of clientelle you get purely because you are available to the people who have longer rather than shorter lunch breaks, or finish work before 5pm etc.

    closing saturdays perhaps sends the message that you are "busy enough", and hopefully you can counteract the impression that you are too high end with a friendly and welcoming looking shop, maybe even make it look "fun". Goodness knows this business needs a bit of fun in it sometimes.

    It all depends on your location. if you have good trade saturdays you would be mad to throw it away.
    If saturdays were a busy day, I would still be open saturdays.

    But I wouldn't see any harm if you are not too sure, to put up a sign saying you are there monday to friday, and turn up saturdays anyway for a while and see what happens, then if peole come in and catch you there it is a bonus for them and if it's a completely dead day you can go home and not lose any sleep about letting down a customer. That is actually what we did for ages before deciding to make it a firm saturday closing.
  41. pwalters

    pwalters SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ok, I'm probably going to catch some flak here but I read this and think "Then why did you go into business for yourself?"

    Anyone who owns their own business and is adamant on making sure they get their two days off a week is probably not in it to really be professional. I know that this is a pretty broad sword and that it's unfair of me to say, but that's what I think. We're open Mon - Friday 10 - 8, Saturday 10 - 6 and closed on Sundays. The only reason we close at 6 on Saturday (one of our busiest days of the week) and aren't open on Sunday is that in our center that's typically when everyone else (except the pizza place) closes so it's a ghost town. With those hours, I've gotten a voicemail at 9pm at night on a Friday with a person saying "Since you can close early on a Friday night when most people are out doing their errands you must not need the business." You can't please everyone but are you in business or not?
  42. KaraK

    KaraK CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Someone who takes two days off each week is unprofessional? What a silly notion.

    Many times after I tell my customers that I am closed on Sundays and Mondays, they respond with a "Good for you!". One even said it was civilized.

    Guess I missed the You Must Be Open Six Days a Week or You're Just a Goofball with a Storefront chapter in Retail for Dummies.
  43. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Again...it all depends on your location. Saturdays after 3 here it's pretty much ghost town as well. I usually stay until 4 to clean up and such and on occasion have been here until much later. I have NEVER had a customer after 3 on Saturday.

    Would I be able to do more business in a different location and be open 6 or even 7 days a week. Probably yes. Right now it's not an option. Am I somewhat less professional....I can't answer that. My existing customers certainly don't think so. Would the cost of being open more days pay off? I sincerely doubt it for where I am.

    It's just me, I am not ready to hire and probably never want to. That is my decision but I still don't think that I am not being professional. Maybe not completely business like...but that is different.
  44. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If I didnt have 2 days off a week NOTHING WOULD GET DONE AT HOME.
    The entire family would be naked.

    I seriously find it interesting the women shop owners are the ones that mandate the 2 days off and stick by thier hours......

    To say we're not professional in our business is the most craziest thing I've ever heard.

    Maybe we should start a new thread on this. I seriously dont think people understand what its like being a full time mom and business owner and taxi serivice....and butt wiper... and psychotherpist.... and cook... and laundry maid... and slave..... and coach.... and sunday school teacher.
  45. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Me too....... apparently I'm unprofessional as well.......
  46. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    you forgot the social planner and financial planner and the person who always knows where everything is and if not you're screwed.
  47. pwalters

    pwalters SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Wait a minute. Before I get accussed of being sexist, etc please read very clearly what I said.

    I normally take two days off a week. Heck, I regularly take three days off a week during the summer to boat, travel, etc. I commented that for someone to want to go into business for themselves to not be willing to be open 6 days a week because it's just them is odd to me. When I opened my store I knew that I was going to have to put my wanting weekends/evenings/etc aside in order to grow the business into what I wanted. Maybe I am different than most on this board but I didn't get into framing because I wanted to hand carve wood frames or help little old ladies with their cross stitch projects for free. I did it to make money. I've said it before, if you are in this business for any number of years and you aren't making money (and there is no end to this in sight) then GET OUT. Every day you come in to your business and lose money is a day you'll never get back. You are putting your future in jeopardy. Sure it's noble to tread water trying to make a go of it. Sure there are other things that might be keeping you in the business and you see no way out (lease, loans, pride, etc). But if you really want to make money you have to look at this as a business.

    Now what does that mean? Well, I think it means being willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. At least, that's what I believe. I saw KaraK comment THAT SHE WOULD LOVE TO BE OPEN SIX DAYS A WEEK, but that it "wasn't going to happen" since it was just her. Sorry, but that reads to me "I'm not willing to work six days a week even though I think it might be a good thing for my business". This is not a woman or a man thing. I recently had a competitor close who was closed on Mondays. He was 5 miles from me. Monday is a great day for us normally. He commented once that his customers could work around his schedule because he wasn't going to give up his life. It didn't work. I think you are either all in or all out.

    Now, when it comes to Nic and Ylva, I think that I know bits and pieces about you guys from this board. YMMV in this scenario but this is my opinion. I don't have kids. I know Nic does. I also believe Ylva does. So I can't comment on what you can or can't do from a scheduling standpoint. I'm not sure if Kara has kids or not or has specific family needs but perhaps that is why she has her schedule the way it is. I don't know but I have things I need to get done as well and I do take that time but my business (the thing that pays my bills and takes care of the other things I need to do) isn't put on hold so that I can do it.

    Just to be clear, I wasn't saying anyone was or wasn't a professional. I was expressing my thought that a retail business owner that is not willing to be open "regular" retail business hours in order to assure that they get their days off might not be best going into business for themselves.

    Heck, I'm sure KaraK does a ton of business and is thrilled with her numbers. So what do I know? Sorry if I offended anyone but these are just my opinions.

    Oh, and Nic, you need to get that husband helping around the house. We know you'd be able to work more then!!!!!
  48. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Paul...you didn't offend me at all and in theory, yes, I do agree with you.

    In my situation (we have 5 kids between 9-15 years old) the frame shop is our secondary income and we have always treated it like that. For our main business, yes, we have made quite a lot of sacrifices but it does pay the bills and that's why it's worth it. My husband will work on Sundays during busy season and makes long hours. We don't go on vacation. To make sure that our family doesn't suffer, I choose to take days off when there is something special going on for the kids. I am also the one closing shop when the school nurse calls and one of the kids are sick.

    I don't fool myself that this doesn't cost me potential new customers. Sure it does. But I'm in this for the long run and will work longer hours when the kids are more grown up in a few years. We knew it would be near impossible for me to find a fulltime job and still being able to take care of the children and all stuff. So. I am in business but I treat it as an outgrown hobby and any income made is welcome as it doesn't have to support the family.

    Different view, different situation, different decision. We knew what we were getting into. The only time I have seriously considered closing the frame shop was last year when it was so extremely quiet that it was hard keeping up with the bills. This year is far more promising so far so I hang in there. But you are right, as soon as it doesn't support itself plus a little extra to bring home; I will close.
  49. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Well here's where we differ........

    I have a life outside of framing.

    I also don't know anyone that goes into business just to work for other people and not make money or succeed. Being closed 2 days a week is not uncommen around here. EVERYONE is closed on Mondays....except the antique shops. You have to adapt your business to how you can best make money. IF someone can not get to my shop by my hours posted.... we set up a time to meet. MOst can........ some cant and I make time to meet them.
    To make a general statement about the industry as a whole.. is just crazy.
  50. KaraK

    KaraK CGF, Certified Grumble Framer


    Then why don't you tell me what I should be doing for a living. Here are a few ideas to get the ball rolling:

    How about a nice, cushy corporate job that has me traveling to 1 or 2 different cities a week, flying more than 75,000 miles annually for more than 10 years, giving 8-hour presentations about 3 days a week, all too often getting up for a 6 a.m. flight and getting back home after an 8 p.m. flight later that same day, 11p.m. conference calls with India, and giving up my life in the process. Did that.

    Or what about a job that has me living at clients' sites for up to three months at a time, one strange town after another, living out of suitcase, and putting my life on hold for a few years. Did that too.

    Or how about a frame shop that is open 7 days a week, and has three employees. Did that! This time around I have chosen to be a one person shop, and I have immense respect for anyone who does the same, and manages to keep work and life in balance.

    After I was bought out of my first frame shop by a commercial developer, I could have spent my time traveling and just enjoying life for a good, long time. Instead, I spent a few years going to culinary school and working in the kitchen at The Ritz Carlton. FOR FUN. So your insinuations that I am not a hard-worker are incorrect, and yes, really offensive.

    "Just your opinion" that I am unprofessional, which you DID say, and not committed to the success of my business makes you look bad. And scolding me about my work schedule, and then going on about all your time off makes you look like a hypocrite.

    Yes, I would love to be open six days a week. Heck, I'd love to be open seven days a week. But it's not because my business is suffering due to my egregious 2 days off. It's because I enjoy what I do and I love my shop and most of all, I treasure my customers and would be thrilled to have the opportunity to serve them eight days a week.

    << Hey, six years in and my first Grumble argument - not too bad. Sorry everyone! I've said all I need to - and if kind of felt good. :) >>
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