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Oval frame backing help

Jenk

Grumbler in Training
Hi all,

I'm a super newbie framer/artist that frames for my own purposes or for art shows. I have a series of pieces that I am building frames for from scratch (meaning, I'm starting with a laser cut "face", cutting acrylic to fit) but am struggling with figuring out the back. My acrylic overlaps almost the entire 1/4" frame edge on the back with little wood left exposed. I don't have access to many tools, and so am struggling with material to use for backing, and how to fasten it to the face of the frame. Sorry for the "basic-ness" of this post, but you gotta start somewhere, right??? Thank you so much for your wisdom in advance!
 
888

Jenk

Grumbler in Training
Here is an example of the frame just sitting on top of my piece. I have acrylic that I cut to size that is attached flush against the back of the frame, and it is just sitting atop my papercut. I don't know how to finish the back because it is all flush. Does that make sense? Thank you in advance!!! I'm sorry if this is still unclear. 20190825_151308-418x576.jpg
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Sooo. as best I as i can figure, the frame doesn't have a rabbet where the plexi or glass and art would normally go and it is completely flat which is why it is sitting on the plexi , right?

How about showing a photo of the back instead of the front, ok?

This would give us a better idea of how to help.
 

wvframer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Drilling through acrylic can be tricky, but screwing them to the back through countersunk holes is your best bet. Low speed drilling with a bit designed for acrylic improves your chances. I don't see any other way to attach the back with this design. I would not trust adhesives without a mechanical fastener.

There are some real acrylic experts who visit here regularly. Wait for them to chime in if you can. I sometimes overlook obvious solutions. And it sounds like this is going to be a regular challenge for you.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Without a rabbet it will always be tricky. I don’t know if you have space to glue some kind of rabbet onto the back?
How far does everything stick out on the back.
If I interpret this correctly, the frame is on top of the plexi and the art? Maybe the right size offset clips might be an option. 888 manufacturing has a variety of sizes. They would more or less function as a rabbet.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
So build a rabbit. You used a laser (A cmc?) to cut the face? Use the same laser to cut an oval with an opening about 1/4" larger than the opening on the frame. Screw the new oval to the back and you now have a rabbit that can be used in the normal fashion rather than trying some hooky method to create a back.

If you didn't laser cut the frame but bought it somewhere, use a router to create an oval instead.
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I don't know how much room you've got but screw offset clips into the wood?

Ed
 
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framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Ok.. based on what the OP posted... in actual words.. "My acrylic overlaps almost the entire 1/4" frame edge on the back with little wood left exposed."

See the part where it says "with little wood left exposed"?
Also the part where the back of the frame is ONLY 1/4"??

Those magic words would preclude using offset clips as there... ISN'T ENOUGH WOOD! :faintthud:
Seriously, why doesn't anyone read anymore?

While the idea of drilling and countersinking the plexi and using flat head screws would seem to be one way, the danger is to not tighten them too much as you WILL crack the plexi.

Use the smallest you can so the holes are equally small.

Another, possiblely better way would be to use hot glue along the edge of the plexi and glue it to the back of the frame. Actually, this might be the best as you remove the possibility of cracking the plexi.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Hi, Jen. Looks like your wood is about 1/8" thick. Is this a close guess?
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Ok.. based on what the OP posted... in actual words.. "My acrylic overlaps almost the entire 1/4" frame edge on the back with little wood left exposed."

See the part where it says "with little wood left exposed"?
Also the part where the back of the frame is ONLY 1/4"??

Those magic words would preclude using offset clips as there... ISN'T ENOUGH WOOD! :faintthud:
Seriously, why doesn't anyone read anymore?
And this is the reason so many people left this place. Why so obnoxious? We have no idea how much room there is behind the ornamentation shown in the picture where offsets could be attached. But that's ok, I'll butt out. You are the only one with acceptable advice. You can be the one that answers all the questions.

Ed
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Ralph, I read it at least 5 times and couldn’t picture it. I’m a good and careful reader.....

Anyway, it that is the case, maybe cut the acrylic a little smaller. I still think offsets are a good solution.
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I would think counter-sunk tiny screws would be the logical solution. Manually twisting the drill bit before drilling will help avoid slippage of the drill on the acrylic. A larger drill bit to match the size of the screw heads works for the counter-sinking.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
But... if anyone HAD read the OP, they would have seen that the back of the frame is only 1/4"! ..and that the plexi covers almost the entire back of it meaning that it almost covers 1/4" ...which means that there isn't any room for offset clips!!!
Seriously, how hard was that to figure out. You all are giving answers that CAN'T work... because there isn't enough room!!!
The only answers that could work are the tiny screws method and the hot glue method.

I'm sory that it is obnoxious to you as you are one of the ones who apparently didn't read the post and even if you did, STILL didn't realize that there isn't room for offsest clips.

You aren't helping someone who is asking for help if you aren't READING THE POST and just throwing out ideas that don't help.

This site can only help other framers if the people offering ideas are offering REALISTIC ideas. Otherwise, you are posting just to get your posting numbers up.

Instead of thinking of it as obnoxious, think of it as a Gibb's headslap.Unknown.jpeg
 
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framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Offset clips require more than 1/4" just so they aren't popping out from the back. The WHOLE back area is only 1/4". See how that wouldn't work?
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
I would think counter-sunk tiny screws would be the logical solution. Manually twisting the drill bit before drilling will help avoid slippage of the drill on the acrylic. A larger drill bit to match the size of the screw heads works for the counter-sinking.
Possibly a manual countersink instead of using a power drill.
manual coountersink.jpg
 

Pat Murphey

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ralph, I use drill bits manually for countersinking in wood. I would try the same in acrylic. Drill bits are good if matched to the size of the screw head because you can go deep enough for a smooth top without a wider hole. ( Anyway, that looks like a nice tool to have.)
 

Wilson

Grumbler
A skilled craftsman with a rabbeting bit and a palm router would be the perfect solution for this.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Jenk:
You're making these frames, right? If so, then I suggest making them to accommodate one or more of the suggestions given above. That is, begin with the dimensions of the frame's window showing the image. Add at least 1/2" to that size (1/4" all around) for the acrylic and backing board. Then, add at least another 1" on top of that (1/2" all around) to accommodate offset clips or other screwed fasteners. Altogether, by this reckoning, you would be making the frame's solid "working area" roughly 1-1/2" larger than the image window.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Well then Ralph. I read it and read it. Sorry for not being as smart then for not being able to picture it.
There is no reason to not cut the plexi smaller or, as Jim suggested, find another way to make this work.
Jenk is looking for options and suggestions. Just a different option and different view is offered, why is that a problem? There is always more than one answer and more ways to look at it.
And I really don’t care about post numbers or how many I have if that comment was aimed at me.
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
But... if anyone HAD read the OP, they would have seen that the back of the frame is only 1/4"! ..and that the plexi covers almost the entire back of it meaning that it almost covers 1/4" ...which means that there isn't any room for offset clips!!!
Seriously, how hard was that to figure out. You all are giving answers that CAN'T work... because there isn't enough room!!!
The only answers that could work are the tiny screws method and the hot glue method.

I'm sory that it is obnoxious to you as you are one of the ones who apparently didn't read the post and even if you did, STILL didn't realize that there isn't room for offsest clips.

You aren't helping someone who is asking for help if you aren't READING THE POST and just throwing out ideas that don't help.

This site can only help other framers if the people offering ideas are offering REALISTIC ideas. Otherwise, you are posting just to get your posting numbers up.

Instead of thinking of it as obnoxious, think of it as a Gibb's headslap.View attachment 31466
Honestly, I only used the word "obnoxious" because the words that more acurately describe you are not allowed on this forum. I know that your disgusting personality and petty, bitter attacks on others to try to feel better about yourself have driven off several other members. Why is it any of your business whether or not somebody else will find my advice useful? Do you think they are too dumb to hold up an offset clip and figure out for themself if it will work or not. They have a whole lot more information about this project than you or me. But just so you don't have to kick any puppies tonight to make yourself feel strong: you're a great person and everybody likes you. I hope that helps.

Ed
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Jen, have you already cut all the acrylic ovals? If not, here's another idea. Would it work to use two of these frames for each piece? You could either route a 1/16" deep oval into the inside of each frame, (if that's enough to hold your plexi in), and sandwich them together. If you could sandwich them, the resultant doubling of wood might help with attaching a hanger. It would likely require cutting the ovals smaller. Or, in looking back at Wilson's post #20, perhaps just routing the back of one would work with the methods suggested in prior posts?

It looks like the frames are made of balsa wood. Are they, or is it basswood?
Also, Welcome to the Grumble! :beer:
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Honestly, I only used the word "obnoxious" because the words that more acurately describe you are not allowed on this forum. I know that your disgusting personality and petty, bitter attacks on others to try to feel better about yourself have driven off several other members. Why is it any of your business whether or not somebody else will find my advice useful? Do you think they are too dumb to hold up an offset clip and figure out for themself if it will work or not. They have a whole lot more information about this project than you or me. But just so you don't have to kick any puppies tonight to make yourself feel strong: you're a great person and everybody likes you. I hope that helps.

Ed
Ed...

Why would you offer advice if, based on the posters actual information, AND your framing knowledge of offset clips, you HAVE to know it wouldn't work?

You could just as easily suggested they use duct tape to hold it together. It has the same possibility of working with the added benefit of comedy.

Actually , you and I do have the same information about this project as the poster because they GAVE it us.


..and, yes, I guess I AM being obnoxious to you specifically seeing as how you are the one who is so over the top offended by someone pointing out that your advice wouldn't work and is making you look quite uninformed and unable to read even the most basic of words which would have allowed you to NOT post useless advice to someone who was looking for help and even gave you the info needed to make a rational piece of advice.


I guess to sum it up, you're lazy.

Done and out.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hope you weren’t scared away Jenk
Most of us are trying to help.
Most of us are visual people and description is not always easy to picture. I’m nowhere near a lazy person and I did read it several times to see if I could give a helpful answer.

Do you cut your own acrylic? If you would glue it, it becomes somewhat permanent. Not sure if at some point the art might have to be switched out.
Would you be able to drill through acrylic and use tiny screws? Could you cut the acrylic smaller and use turn buttons?
Maybe notch the acrylic with offset clips?
 
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