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PPFA, CPF, and Modern Standards

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Jim Miller, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. mikki

    mikki MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Smooth, I did not and will not read every word of this post however your comments about the mars and venus stuff was about ONE webinar. It is a fairly new thing PPFA/PMA has been organizing.

    Two very successful women led a webinar that just pointed out their opinions and observations on the difference between male and female shoppers and what they were looking for in a shop. I agreed alot of camera shops seem to be over stuffed and not fun easy shopping.

    It was geared more towards the photo shop industry than frame shops, I thought, but the information was spot ON!

    Their qualifications seemed very inline with what their topic was.
    ( You can get the exacts from PMA/PPFA. Their company is jill-e designs and they design camera bags for women.)

    You seemed to get out of shape with that information on the PPFA website when all it was, was an advertisment for an on line class for a very small price, $10.00 with membership. Did I get my 10 bucks worth even if it was geared toward camera stores not MY STOREFRONT? #### Yeah I got it!

    BTW I was a framer for two large frame shops for 20 plus years. After leaving and entering a different field I missed framing and picked it back up in my garage....guess what I became a Certified Picture Framer while in my garage! Knowledge I gained with PPFA resources and guidence for PPFA members (the first MCPF) not from those large frame shops I worked for because they couldn't be bothered to join their professional organization and help improve knowledge of framing and handeling art!

    After coming back from my first National PPFA meeting I was inspired to take the leap and open my own frame shop with the knowledge I gained through the great people I met in PPFA.

    Don't knock it till you try it! You are welcome to drive up to our next meeting we will give you some southern hospitality to rinse out that bad taste you seem to have in your mouth! And we always have sweet tea!

    Sorry about the length and spelling ( mar?)
  2. MabSadie2

    MabSadie2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    Wow. You guys had an awesome dogfight and now it's a group hug. Only on the Grumble, I swear.

    You know, this isn't an industry that provides much in the way of either glory or riches, with a few possible exceptions. Your average Joe on the street would probably be much more excited to shake the hand of the World Champion Hot Dog Eater than the World's Most Accomplished Picture Framer. Their loss, as picture framers are a pretty amazing bunch and competitive eaters have sticky hands.

    Those of you who put time, research and experimentation into building a continuing education program for our industry....well, I just want to say that I appreciate it. I've always thought the point of a trade organization is to raise the bar on an industry by getting all the best ideas in one place and then fighting about it. Thanks for bringing the ideas, really. It's made a huge difference for a lot of people like me and like Amy, who, as she posted very nicely, was opened up to how much there is to learn and rose to the task as anyone following her project posts could attest. There are certainly framers on the Grumble of a more libertarian philosophy of how to learn framing, but don't let it get you down.

    You guys deserve every mouthful of that caviar and champagne and I just signed up for a class, so you're sure to make that Rolls payment this month. Maybe you'll give me a scholarship to a conservator school when you get your royalty check from all those books about formed rod mounts? That would be sweet.
  3. Smooth 1

    Smooth 1 True Grumbler

    I don't know about any group hugs. LOL!! I'm not so sure this forum is the right place for me. It seems like there are alot of "us" and "them" divisions in here. For what seems like a very "tight" knit group, it begs to wonder why? As someone who is new to this forum, and how things work here, I guess I would have just thought I would have been treated with a bit more understanding in the beginning. The only reason I feel we were able to come to any common ground was due to my commitment to staying involved. I've had to endure being called names, character assasinations, passed judgements on, ridiculed and if we were all in the same room, I'm sure we would have traded some blows also. All in one 24 hour period. I'm pretty sure some keyboard letters are going to have some nice bruises today and the space bars are going to wake up pretty achey all over.

    I'm in no way excusing myself for the mistakes I have made along the way here. I am responsible for myself and I take ownership of that. But I don't think I ever deserved some of the things that were said to me here. If we can't discuss "voodoo" topics then there should be a concerted effort to let the new people know what those are, why they are, and how to get information they are looking for. Even if they do turn out to be individuals just looking to have fun or as it was put " shooting for sport." I would think at some point it became pretty clear that I was not here for that.

    It was brought up in an earlier post about my other thread regarding posters/art.com and if I were such a high end operation why would I care about them. If you read that thread a bit closer, while the thread is about that website, it's also about why we aren't we working together more to prevent more of this to evolve? How can we take control and protect our markets from being invaded by companies pretending to be our supporters on one side and sucking customers away on the other. Which was what prompted me to begin looking into the PPFA. So I asked around some, and was told it's run by a bunch of (and I quote) "HOBBY FRAMERS" who work from thier homes. So I went to the website. In my preception of the PPFA website, it appears to be very geared towards retail frame shops. I don't think I see any references to home based framers anywhere on the PPFA website. In fact, every opening paragraph I read did directly refer to retail stores, Point of Purchase, Marketing, and Business support. As someone new, I became confused, and decided to try and get some info here. Sorry if I began that search with the wrong question. But how was I to know?:faintthud:
  4. John Ranes II CPF GCF

    John Ranes II CPF GCF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    Welcome to the Grumble, Smooth1,

    I would highly recommend that you start by filling out your profile a bit... business, loction, web site link if you have one, in fact any other information about yourself that might give posters and idea of your character, experience, etc.

    On public forums, this sort of information helps.

    Good luck,


    P.S. PPFA member for 32 years, btw! ;)
  5. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    It's not your fault. You just picked a topic that is off limits. I'll add to that list Fletcher and Tru-Vue. If you have any concerns about them, valid or not, you will be called to the carpet for sharing here. Any question about them will be met with ridicule with calls to "contact them" (read shut up on this forum). Search for "Masterpiece Glass" for example. You will find lots of concern and just a few saying "Shut up and call Tru-Vue, I dare you!!!!". OK what you will actually find is much more church'ed up than that but if you read between the lines.....

    There are few companies you are free to sound off and will be met with limited resistance. LJ would be one. If ya have concerns about Wizard or Decor mag. or M&M you can probably sound off here. Again you'll get a little resistance but not much.

    Then there are companies that nobody has a sworn allegiance to that you are free to question and speculate about to no end. Decor moulding and Crescent and Michaels comes to mind. I could be wrong but I don't recall anybody taking it personal when a poster sounds off about those companies.

    I'm sure there are dozens of people who would share your opinion here. You're not alone. Shoot there are people here on the grumble that have absolutely no use for the PPFA what-so-ever and would tell you anyplace other than the G. They just don't sound off here because of what you have just experienced.

    You and I are not on the same page. I think you have made a very poor attempt at linking technical framing knowledge with practical application. I think one can understand one without experiencing the other. I don't feel any friction toward you because I have no affiliation with the PPFA. I probably would if I did. Surely you can understand that. I suggest you ignore those that are so personally attached to a topic. They are easy to spot. But man! You took the bait when you responded in this thread!
  6. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  7. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Enough! Things were finally calming down. :D
  8. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Similar to above, most (if not all) of your PPFA references have been about the "the board" and "board members". Their main function is to plan the future of the trade association and to advance it. They also serve as links to the parent association, PMAI (Photo Marketing Association International), and all of the other eight affiliated trade associations.

    In the interest of "how the PPFA works", as you mentioned earlier, board members usually are not involved with classes, webinars, articles, and other information-based member communications. PPFA educators do that, and we generally are framers. Several of us also participate here on The Grumble.

    Volunteer committees and task forces do the direct-to-members work of the association. For example, the Certification Board (unrelated to the Board of Directors) takes care of reviewing and updating the CPF and MCPF certification programs. Last year a committee of four volunteers (all of us framers) developed two new introductory classes for the CPF and MCPF programs. The Guidelines Task Force has re-written the PPFA Guidelines for Framing Works of Art on Paper and has almost completed the PPFA Guidelines for Framing Works of Art on Canvas.The Education Committee is in charge of seminars, webinars and other educational events. The Competition Board is in charge of promoting, organizing, and judging the PPFA framing competitions. The Framers' Corner Committee is in charge of PPFA's member-to-member online bulletin board.

    PPFA is full of volunteer committees, and I have only scratched the surface. The point is, the PPFA Board of Directors is only one part of the organization, and maybe not the part of greatest interest to you.
  9. Smooth 1

    Smooth 1 True Grumbler

    I see. That is beginning to make alot more sense to me. My original information/ view of the PPFA was there is a board consisting of ( I don't know the number, so for this conversation lets say 12.) People who are deemed the leaders in the Framing industry. They have a sub panel of chapter/district whatever or how ever it is broken up regionally in which each one is run by another set of "people", ie Framers. This was what I was told by several different individuals. And I would venture to say that there are alot more people who think this is the case. I was also told that the ( we've established 12 for this conversation) 12 were all Hobby framers working from thier homes/ garages. After talking with a few others, I found the answers I was getting to be vague, and no one seemed to know who these people are. When I went to the PPFA website, as I read more and more, (Which by the way is not a very good website.) It appears to be geared to the retail frame shop. In fact, only for retail frame shops. It almost off handedly mentions other types of "framer applications" which I thought to be stores that are really craft supply oriented, and do framing, but are not a "framing" establishment, and some Art Galleries that also do framing, but may only do in house framing and the likes. It does go over the "beginner framer" also, but of course it would. Everyone would have to start like that yes? So, I hope you and others can atleast just try to understand that to an outside person who is hearing things like Hobby framer run, and home/garage framer member/board base and
    certification system it begs to wonder who and how these people that claim to be the authority in this feild can be quite confusing, and would beg to be asked these very questions. especially when I go to the website and I see everything geared towards and presented the way it currently is.

    And even before I asked my question, I clearly stated, that I truly do not know this.........

    So, the PPFA is an affiliate with or of the PMAI which also covers 8 other associations? Now that is real info. I was told that the PPFA is a stand alone association. And really puts alot into perspective for me. I am also seeing that for myself now as well. While I haven't made any phone calls I am doing some searches on the names and affiliates I am seeing along the way.
  10. Rob Markoff

    Rob Markoff PFG, Picture Framing God

    One of the best things to ever happen with the PPFA was their affiliation with the PMA (photo Marketing Association) - and now, as a division of PMA, PPFA members have access to a huge trade association - which allows PPFA members to receive PMA publications, attend PMA education at the convention, have access to keynote addresses from influential public speakers (This year Guy Kawasaki is speaking) and it is "free" to all PMA convention attendees (including PPFA members).

    If you purchase PPFA + you also have access to PMA + and there is some great stuff there. (It is not widely broadcast, but PMA+ costs twice as much as PPFA+ and if you buy PPFA+ for a year, you get taccess to PMA + so you get the best of both worlds......)

    As a PPFA member, you can subscribe to MMIE which is a markerting forum that is mainly camera store operators - but I have learned a bunch from them as they are RETAILERS too.

    There are DIMA podcasts and other education (digital imaging people) that is also available for PPFA members. There are webinars for a nominal fee that may have something in them (all it takes is one good idea........)

    PPFA is more than "just framers" and if the digital or custom imaging arena is of any interest to you, PMA is a great source of knowledge.
  11. Smooth 1

    Smooth 1 True Grumbler

    I have a high volume large format digital photo business as well. I had no idea there was an affiliation with the PMA by the PPFA.

    I was very misinformed before. I am familiar with the PMA.
  12. Barb Pelton

    Barb Pelton SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Welcome to the Grumble.

    I'm getting here a little late, but I'll add a couple of quick points....
    First, here is a link to the current list of the PPFA Board of Directors :

    The list of the current Board members is always on the website, complete with contact information. There should never be any question as to who the members are or how to get in touch with them.

    Of course, this list will change in a week or so, as the election for the 2010 Board will be held at the Convention.

    Second, PPFA became part of PMA about 9 years ago.
    As stated, members of PPFA have full access to all of the benefits of the PMA organization, and there is a TON of stuff there if you are interested in photography, especially digital output.

    I'm sorry you got such bad information from someone!
  13. Rob Markoff

    Rob Markoff PFG, Picture Framing God

    Yes, but are you a MEMBER?
  14. LindaK

    LindaK Grumbler

    Great answer, Harry (Sorry folks... only Just found this thread today)!
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