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Price Check

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by DanPat, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I want to see if our pricing is in line with the industry. I recently checked it against some of the other price checks I found on the Grumble and noticed I was higher. We tend to discount framing for local artists, so I think I pushed my prices up to absorb the discount a bit. Then I found we end up offering discounts to the everyday customer, since the price seems high. So, I have lowered pricing a bit and eliminated most discounts.

    Final Frame Size 20x24
    conservation clear glass
    archival mounting (nothing fancy just standard hinge mount)
    and the following frame materials:

    L422440
    A4901 / A4901

    Total Price: $342
    Thanks!
     
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  2. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Using a matching moulding from International I'm at $154.95
     
  3. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Thanks Jeff. I sent you a PM. I'm curious to see where others come in at...
     
  4. NYJim

    NYJim CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    What is the company for the L422440 Moulding?
     
  5. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Larson, leave the L off when searching their site.
     
  6. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Thanks Jeff. I use lifesaver POS software and the L is the code for Larson.
     
  7. NYJim

    NYJim CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I use FrameReady
    Total is $352.02
     
  8. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Thanks NYJim!

    I'm going to break down my pricing here. If anyone else price checks, I would be curious to see how your pricing breaks down. If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, just PM me.

    LJ Frame: $213.57
    TruVue CC Glass: $39.31
    Double Mat (A4901/A4901): $40.34
    Archival Mount: $19.36
    Fitting: 29.34
    TOTAL: $341.92

    Thanks!
     
  9. i-FRAMER

    i-FRAMER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    $291 Down under
     
  10. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Is that the EXACT same moulding....... or a cheap knock off!??
     
  11. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    No Nic, but it is pretty close. So much so that my customers go for the IM one about 1/2 the time before they know the price. After they find out the price difference about 80% of those that like the LJ better choose the IM.
     
  12. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Jeff is using a cheap knock off for his pricing. The molding I requested a price check on is a Larson frame. Jeff's is International... with package pricing.
     
  13. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    I take real exception with the term "cheap knock-off". You people need to get off the LJ kool-aid. The moulding from IM is a beautiful frame of a similar style, but is in no way a knock-off.
     
  14. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Hey there are Coach purses..... then there are "Coach" purses sold out of the back of a van....... comes to my shop once a year..... no joke.

    1/3 of the price of the real bags. Not made as well for sure.... :shrug:
     
  15. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    International while looks great, has a good selection, is not always the best finish, it chips A LOT, yield is lower because of warping. Yes I use both to service my customers needs.
     
  16. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    Randy, I don't think that IM has any Italian mouldings, I know they did have some very nice Spanish mouldings. If you are trying to make a slam at Jeff and his mentioning of Italian mouldings in other posts, he is not getting those from IM.
     
  17. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    Hey all I hear is Italian or IM, never mentions any other companies. Roma? Bella?
     
  18. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    IM has the occasional Italian moulding but that is not one of them. I get my Italian mouldings from several sources that I will not discuss or I won't be able to get them any more. Keep believing in the cheap knock off theory it just makes it easier for shops like mine. A couple of us have looked at items that a huge number of framers are using and applying the same mark ups on the exact same items with the exact same item numbers the difference in one case had our retail at $18 per foot while other framers would retail at $78 per foot.

    Everybody should buy what they like, get it in their preferred form (box, length, chop) and price accordingly. When a customer gets a frame price of $180 for a ten foot usage size frame from me and $780 from the competition and the item numbers match I have a customer for life. The difference is I am willing to work a lot harder than 99% of framers and I close 99% of customers. I have purchased nearly 100 boxes of moulding in the last 3 months and it has all paid for itself with the exception of 11 of the 15 boxes that arrived Thursday and Friday of last week. Those last 11 will have paid for themselves before the end of this week.
     
  19. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    So this is. NOT EXACTLY the same. LJ moulding?


    If its not..... you have no business even giving someone a price quote....... as you said above..... you undercut every single legit framer around selling the LJ moulding..
     
  20. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    But only selling LJ moulding is about as crazy a thing as I have heard. Putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing. I have also been hearing rumblings of many 100% LJ customers suddenly losing their discounts or most of their discounts. Talk about a shock to the bottom line.
     
  21. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I'm pretty sure this isn't about only selling LJ. I don't know any framers that are exclusive. And I talk to a lot of them.

    Like I said..... I'm not buying no Coach purse out of the back of some sleezy guys van.
     
  22. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Why would you when my wife just got one at 85% off from the manufacturer's outlet store. The LJ frame is more expensive but no better quality. You can believe you have a better product but that doesn't make it better. So your job becomes one of convincing customers that Warren Buffet really needs the couple hundred extra bucks.
     
  23. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    The quote using the Larson moulding doesn't seem excessive at all. It's a very nice moulding, and the price makes sense in terms of materials and techniques.

    With respect to knockoffs, there are good knockoffs and bad ones. For example, Larson has a bamboo-looking frame that is much more expensive than a nearly-identical Omega frame. Nearly identical. The dimensions are the same, and there is such a minor variation in finish, it's meaningless. I'm not familiar with the International version of the moulding the original poster mentioned, but if it's really close, then that would justify Jeff's pricing. As long as you acknowledge, this is a different moulding from a different company. And then you should ask, maybe I should stock the International moulding instead, and maybe mark it up somewhere between the normal markup and what I charge for the Larson frame?
     
  24. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Nearly all of the LJ dealers in this area have closed up shop. Another one bit the dust last month and one of the last has switched over to Omega for the majority of their mouldings. I believe they still run a truck here to supply M's but am not aware of any other stops made close by. This area is very well served by 2 independent distributors with extremely competitive pricing plus Omega began delivering here last year. They just don't seem to want to compete with the indies and Omega and there are a huge number of frame shops in the area.
     
  25. Terry Hart cpf

    Terry Hart cpf SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Interestingly (& surpisingly perhaps) enough we just got in samples of a new LJ line that has a nearly perfect match to Omega except I think the the LJ has a much nicer finish & :faintthud: it's cheaper! Compare LJ 686180 to Omega 80994. It does happen. Both nice lines though, wouldn't bash either one.
     
  26. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Let's get back on track and not make this another LJ bashing thread. I am not familiar with the IM moulding that Jeff is using, but the OP wants our price on the LJ moulding that he is using, so I don't think all the rest is very useful to him.

    My price, before tax is $353.77
     
  27. Gilder

    Gilder MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    $295.58 before tax.
     
  28. Terry Hart cpf

    Terry Hart cpf SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm the same ballpark as Dan using LJ. What's the International #? I'm not finding a match in Intl.
     
  29. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    What I would like and everyone else would appreciate is if your going to compare apples to oranges, then back up your info with details.
    You reference a International Moulding as comparable, then what is the moulding number #, what mat board # are you quoting, (I ask only because it seems you use a lot of non conservation materials) are you using affc? Offering one thing for another is not a price check, it's offering something else for another price all together and not relevant, unless that is what the OP was inquiring about.

    So if your offering a comparison of "like" materials which ones are they? How closely do they match in quality, everyone can make up their own mind. We might all gain from the collective knowledge, which is why we are her
     
  30. Beveled

    Beveled SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  31. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ron I have shared all of the details with Dan but the IM # is 1340-85 and I am using the more expensive Crescent Select mat board and my mat price was 2 dollars more than his.
     
  32. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    According to the LS database the Artique is .10 cents less..

    I am at $325 ish with Larson and $220 with the similar looking International Moulding, and eating another $20 for the time it will take repairing the chips in the moulding.
     
  33. DanPat

    DanPat CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Thanks for the price checks! I think we are where we need to be. This thread has made me think that we will start offering some package pricing, though. But keep that somewhat limited. We do a lot of business with LJ, and I feel that they treat me pretty good in return. So I plan to be pretty much exclusive with them still.
     
  34. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I recall when they changed factories in 2009 I received one box of the extremely dark finish that had some flaking which was an annoyance but the other 3 finishes I stocked did not have the same problem. I just used the 2 5/8" dark version and there were 3 spots that were lined up perfectly with the punctures in the box from the freight carrier.
     
  35. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    NO one cares............. :kaffeetrinker_2:
     
  36. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Actually those who contacted me privately do. Now since you never quoted a price in this thread you have served no purpose here.
     
  37. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    You mean you dont know how to use the PM service? To answer back?


    I'm about $300....... THAT'S WITH THE LJ MOULDING he wanted a quote for.......

    Now whatcha got? :popc:
     
  38. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    LJ might cost more, even at prices around $300 retail the average shop is making twice as much compared to IM at a box price, heck even my IM price of $220 I am almost making twice as much.

    Personally on a side note I would really like to see these kinds of threads banned or removed and brought up in the Business Group or PPFA Framers Corner. This type of discussion is not good for public display and promotes stereo types of our industry.

    "Rondy"
     
  39. Eric The Framer

    Eric The Framer CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I am at 307.92 before tax
     
  40. osgood

    osgood SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    $348.
     
  41. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    $349
     
  42. stcy73

    stcy73 Grumbler

    I priced it out to be right about the same as yours at $340. This would be full retail for someone coming off the street. If it was a regular customer or trade, we would give 20-30% off.
     
  43. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm at about $399.

    Since the rest of you are pretty consistent, anyone mind a breakdown? This might help me look at what I'm charging and where I can adjust things a bit.

    Frame
    Mats
    Glass
    Hinging/Foam
    Fitting
    etc...
     
  44. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    Chris I broke it down by vendor I will send you a PM tomorrow.
     
  45. Verdaccio

    Verdaccio MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Interestingly, I am at $255
     
  46. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    $ 362.00 + tax
     
  47. Riverwood

    Riverwood CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I come in @ 287.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone but comparing LJ422440 to IM1340-85 is crazy. Not even apples to oranges. I have both and they each have their place but thats like comparing a fresh picked apple all nice from the orchard and a plastic orange from the fake fruit decorator department.
     
  48. Warren Tucker

    Warren Tucker MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    We're $220.00 with Larson; $160 with International. We could do a very nice frame for $150. I can't believe Jeff beats us on the International. We're going to look closely at our pricing. We like being the lowest in the area.
     
  49. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God

    No disrespect, but maybe that's a problem.
    You guys are in a race to the bottom.
    Maybe you want to work 60 or 70 hours a week to make $10 or $20 on a framing job.
    That's not a goal for me to want to reach for.
    Sometimes framers are so concerned about offering the "lowest price", they forget to pay themselves what their time and knowledge, equipment, and concern for quality is worth.
     
  50. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If either Warren or myself were only making $10 or $20 on a frame job we would be the two worst buyers of materials in the industry. Both of us are profitable at our prices and enjoy a huge percentage of repeat customers as a result of our pricing. One of the advantages of offering great prices is that you see the same customers coming in with new jobs month after month rather than once or twice a year.
     
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