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Price Check

DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I want to see if our pricing is in line with the industry. I recently checked it against some of the other price checks I found on the Grumble and noticed I was higher. We tend to discount framing for local artists, so I think I pushed my prices up to absorb the discount a bit. Then I found we end up offering discounts to the everyday customer, since the price seems high. So, I have lowered pricing a bit and eliminated most discounts.

Final Frame Size 20x24
conservation clear glass
archival mounting (nothing fancy just standard hinge mount)
and the following frame materials:

L422440
A4901 / A4901

Total Price: $342
Thanks!
 
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Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Using a matching moulding from International I'm at $154.95
 

DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Thanks Jeff. I sent you a PM. I'm curious to see where others come in at...
 

NYJim

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I want to see if our pricing is in line with the industry. I recently checked it against some of the other price checks I found on the Grumble and noticed I was higher. We tend to discount framing for local artists, so I think I pushed my prices up to absorb the discount a bit. Then I found we end up offering discounts to the everyday customer, since the price seems high. So, I have lowered pricing a bit and eliminated most discounts.

Final Frame Size 20x24
conservation clear glass
archival mounting (nothing fancy just standard hinge mount)
and the following frame materials:

L422440
A4901 / A4901

Total Price: $342
Thanks!
What is the company for the L422440 Moulding?
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Larson, leave the L off when searching their site.
 

DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Thanks Jeff. I use lifesaver POS software and the L is the code for Larson.
 

DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I use FrameReady
Total is $352.02
Thanks NYJim!

I'm going to break down my pricing here. If anyone else price checks, I would be curious to see how your pricing breaks down. If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, just PM me.

LJ Frame: $213.57
TruVue CC Glass: $39.31
Double Mat (A4901/A4901): $40.34
Archival Mount: $19.36
Fitting: 29.34
TOTAL: $341.92

Thanks!
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
No Nic, but it is pretty close. So much so that my customers go for the IM one about 1/2 the time before they know the price. After they find out the price difference about 80% of those that like the LJ better choose the IM.
 

DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Is that the EXACT same moulding....... or a cheap knock off!??
Jeff is using a cheap knock off for his pricing. The molding I requested a price check on is a Larson frame. Jeff's is International... with package pricing.
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
I take real exception with the term "cheap knock-off". You people need to get off the LJ kool-aid. The moulding from IM is a beautiful frame of a similar style, but is in no way a knock-off.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey there are Coach purses..... then there are "Coach" purses sold out of the back of a van....... comes to my shop once a year..... no joke.

1/3 of the price of the real bags. Not made as well for sure.... :shrug:
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
International while looks great, has a good selection, is not always the best finish, it chips A LOT, yield is lower because of warping. Yes I use both to service my customers needs.
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
Randy, I don't think that IM has any Italian mouldings, I know they did have some very nice Spanish mouldings. If you are trying to make a slam at Jeff and his mentioning of Italian mouldings in other posts, he is not getting those from IM.
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Hey all I hear is Italian or IM, never mentions any other companies. Roma? Bella?
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
IM has the occasional Italian moulding but that is not one of them. I get my Italian mouldings from several sources that I will not discuss or I won't be able to get them any more. Keep believing in the cheap knock off theory it just makes it easier for shops like mine. A couple of us have looked at items that a huge number of framers are using and applying the same mark ups on the exact same items with the exact same item numbers the difference in one case had our retail at $18 per foot while other framers would retail at $78 per foot.

Everybody should buy what they like, get it in their preferred form (box, length, chop) and price accordingly. When a customer gets a frame price of $180 for a ten foot usage size frame from me and $780 from the competition and the item numbers match I have a customer for life. The difference is I am willing to work a lot harder than 99% of framers and I close 99% of customers. I have purchased nearly 100 boxes of moulding in the last 3 months and it has all paid for itself with the exception of 11 of the 15 boxes that arrived Thursday and Friday of last week. Those last 11 will have paid for themselves before the end of this week.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
So this is. NOT EXACTLY the same. LJ moulding?


If its not..... you have no business even giving someone a price quote....... as you said above..... you undercut every single legit framer around selling the LJ moulding..
 

FrameMakers

PFG, Picture Framing God
But only selling LJ moulding is about as crazy a thing as I have heard. Putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing. I have also been hearing rumblings of many 100% LJ customers suddenly losing their discounts or most of their discounts. Talk about a shock to the bottom line.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I'm pretty sure this isn't about only selling LJ. I don't know any framers that are exclusive. And I talk to a lot of them.

Like I said..... I'm not buying no Coach purse out of the back of some sleezy guys van.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I'm not buying no Coach purse out of the back of some sleezy guys van.
Why would you when my wife just got one at 85% off from the manufacturer's outlet store. The LJ frame is more expensive but no better quality. You can believe you have a better product but that doesn't make it better. So your job becomes one of convincing customers that Warren Buffet really needs the couple hundred extra bucks.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
The quote using the Larson moulding doesn't seem excessive at all. It's a very nice moulding, and the price makes sense in terms of materials and techniques.

With respect to knockoffs, there are good knockoffs and bad ones. For example, Larson has a bamboo-looking frame that is much more expensive than a nearly-identical Omega frame. Nearly identical. The dimensions are the same, and there is such a minor variation in finish, it's meaningless. I'm not familiar with the International version of the moulding the original poster mentioned, but if it's really close, then that would justify Jeff's pricing. As long as you acknowledge, this is a different moulding from a different company. And then you should ask, maybe I should stock the International moulding instead, and maybe mark it up somewhere between the normal markup and what I charge for the Larson frame?
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Nearly all of the LJ dealers in this area have closed up shop. Another one bit the dust last month and one of the last has switched over to Omega for the majority of their mouldings. I believe they still run a truck here to supply M's but am not aware of any other stops made close by. This area is very well served by 2 independent distributors with extremely competitive pricing plus Omega began delivering here last year. They just don't seem to want to compete with the indies and Omega and there are a huge number of frame shops in the area.
 

Terry Hart cpf

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Interestingly (& surpisingly perhaps) enough we just got in samples of a new LJ line that has a nearly perfect match to Omega except I think the the LJ has a much nicer finish & :faintthud: it's cheaper! Compare LJ 686180 to Omega 80994. It does happen. Both nice lines though, wouldn't bash either one.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Let's get back on track and not make this another LJ bashing thread. I am not familiar with the IM moulding that Jeff is using, but the OP wants our price on the LJ moulding that he is using, so I don't think all the rest is very useful to him.

My price, before tax is $353.77
 

Terry Hart cpf

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm the same ballpark as Dan using LJ. What's the International #? I'm not finding a match in Intl.
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Nearly all of the LJ dealers in this area have closed up shop. Another one bit the dust last month and one of the last has switched over to Omega for the majority of their mouldings. I believe they still run a truck here to supply M's but am not aware of any other stops made close by. This area is very well served by 2 independent distributors with extremely competitive pricing plus Omega began delivering here last year. They just don't seem to want to compete with the indies and Omega and there are a huge number of frame shops in the area.
What I would like and everyone else would appreciate is if your going to compare apples to oranges, then back up your info with details.
You reference a International Moulding as comparable, then what is the moulding number #, what mat board # are you quoting, (I ask only because it seems you use a lot of non conservation materials) are you using affc? Offering one thing for another is not a price check, it's offering something else for another price all together and not relevant, unless that is what the OP was inquiring about.

So if your offering a comparison of "like" materials which ones are they? How closely do they match in quality, everyone can make up their own mind. We might all gain from the collective knowledge, which is why we are her
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ron I have shared all of the details with Dan but the IM # is 1340-85 and I am using the more expensive Crescent Select mat board and my mat price was 2 dollars more than his.
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Ron I have shared all of the details with Dan but the IM # is 1340-85 and I am using the more expensive Crescent Select mat board and my mat price was 2 dollars more than his.
According to the LS database the Artique is .10 cents less..

I am at $325 ish with Larson and $220 with the similar looking International Moulding, and eating another $20 for the time it will take repairing the chips in the moulding.
 

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DanPat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Thanks for the price checks! I think we are where we need to be. This thread has made me think that we will start offering some package pricing, though. But keep that somewhat limited. We do a lot of business with LJ, and I feel that they treat me pretty good in return. So I plan to be pretty much exclusive with them still.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I recall when they changed factories in 2009 I received one box of the extremely dark finish that had some flaking which was an annoyance but the other 3 finishes I stocked did not have the same problem. I just used the 2 5/8" dark version and there were 3 spots that were lined up perfectly with the punctures in the box from the freight carrier.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
NO one cares............. :kaffeetrinker_2:
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
NO one cares............. :kaffeetrinker_2:
Actually those who contacted me privately do. Now since you never quoted a price in this thread you have served no purpose here.
 

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
You mean you dont know how to use the PM service? To answer back?


I'm about $300....... THAT'S WITH THE LJ MOULDING he wanted a quote for.......

Now whatcha got? :popc:
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
LJ might cost more, even at prices around $300 retail the average shop is making twice as much compared to IM at a box price, heck even my IM price of $220 I am almost making twice as much.

Personally on a side note I would really like to see these kinds of threads banned or removed and brought up in the Business Group or PPFA Framers Corner. This type of discussion is not good for public display and promotes stereo types of our industry.

"Rondy"
 

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
$348.
 

stcy73

Grumbler
I priced it out to be right about the same as yours at $340. This would be full retail for someone coming off the street. If it was a regular customer or trade, we would give 20-30% off.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm at about $399.

Since the rest of you are pretty consistent, anyone mind a breakdown? This might help me look at what I'm charging and where I can adjust things a bit.

Frame
Mats
Glass
Hinging/Foam
Fitting
etc...
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
Chris I broke it down by vendor I will send you a PM tomorrow.
 

Verdaccio

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Interestingly, I am at $255
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
$ 362.00 + tax
 

Riverwood

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I come in @ 287.

I mean no disrespect to anyone but comparing LJ422440 to IM1340-85 is crazy. Not even apples to oranges. I have both and they each have their place but thats like comparing a fresh picked apple all nice from the orchard and a plastic orange from the fake fruit decorator department.
 

Warren Tucker

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
We're $220.00 with Larson; $160 with International. We could do a very nice frame for $150. I can't believe Jeff beats us on the International. We're going to look closely at our pricing. We like being the lowest in the area.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
We're $220.00 with Larson; $160 with International. We could do a very nice frame for $150. I can't believe Jeff beats us on the International. We're going to look closely at our pricing. We like being the lowest in the area.
No disrespect, but maybe that's a problem.
You guys are in a race to the bottom.
Maybe you want to work 60 or 70 hours a week to make $10 or $20 on a framing job.
That's not a goal for me to want to reach for.
Sometimes framers are so concerned about offering the "lowest price", they forget to pay themselves what their time and knowledge, equipment, and concern for quality is worth.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
If either Warren or myself were only making $10 or $20 on a frame job we would be the two worst buyers of materials in the industry. Both of us are profitable at our prices and enjoy a huge percentage of repeat customers as a result of our pricing. One of the advantages of offering great prices is that you see the same customers coming in with new jobs month after month rather than once or twice a year.
 
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