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Removing metal marks

Discussion in 'Grumble Archive pre 2004 Topics' started by Melissa C., Sep 10, 2002.

  1. Melissa C.

    Melissa C. Grumbler

    Does anyone know how I could remove metal marks -- the kind of marks someone being really careless (me) makes when putting something with a metal rivet in it on the edge of a s/n print? I didn't realize that the rivet was on the print until it was too late, and now there are a bunch of little marks along the edge. The print itself is kind of spooky. It is a pencil drawing done in 1993 of the NYC skyline & there are two helicopters in the sky and a plane right on the side of one of the WTC towers. It's eerie.
     
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  2. Less

    Less SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    If the marks are in the margin, try 200 to 600 grit sand paper. Unseal may work as well.
     
  3. Framerguy

    Framerguy PFG, Picture Framing God

    Oh come on now, Less, you really didn't say to sand the marks out of the print margin, did you???

    Hey, may as well just trim the thing down to remove the marks. Sanding with 200 grit sandpaper will put worse marks in the paper than that rivet ever would have put there and it won't solve the problem.

    The real problem is thoughtlessness on Melissa's part! I did the same thing with a framed print on a customer's bare print myself, so don't feel like I am picking on you Melissa.

    One of the screw eyes dug into the edge of the limited edition print and put some nasty little marks there that were impossible to get out completely. I tried to use a burnishing bone from the back side which helped a little bit and I was going to give steaming a try but backed out because it was chrome finished paper and I was afraid the steam would dull the shiny finish and ruin the paper completely.

    My customer wasn't nearly as concerned as I was. She just said frame it the way it was and nobody would see the marks after the mats were covering them up! If I took that attitude, I would expect Grumblers everywhere to lambast me with all manners of retorts!!

    Framerguy
     
  4. Rebecca

    Rebecca SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Framerguy is so funny, he really makes my day!

    If these are marks, not dents, you might try gently rolling a bit of grated art gum eraser over them. (This is my cure all!). Sandpaper will probably change the paper gloss/texture.

    Unseal might work, though I tend to think of that solvent as rocket fuel more than anything else! (Less is a dreadful tease) [​IMG] If you do try it, USE VERY SPARINGLY i.e. with a BARELY damp q-tip. Maybe you can recreate the effect on a non-art paper and see if any of the above suggestions help.

    Really, it's better to follow Framerguy's advice to just 'fess up and see what client wants to do. (With luck, nothing!) We all make mistakes.

    Rebecca
     
  5. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    Just leave em there and say they were there when you got it!

    Kidding aside, I would ask the customer to come and view my wonderful addition to the natural aging process and see what an eraser would do to the finish on the tiniest part near an edge, perhaps even replicating the marks on other papers to try different techniques.

    Rebecca, would the use of a gum for mounting photographs be suitable if melded into a small ball and rolled over the area?
     
  6. Less

    Less SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yep, I said it. But then again, I can tell the truth, well some of the time, since no one knows my name. Well, a few of you have probably figured it out, not that anyone cares.

    Yeh, I've trimmed a few too! Let's by honest, I'm sure we've all done a few things we wished we hadn't.

    I'm not sure if I have tried it on one of those shiny L/E prints though? It works great for those stupid, very sensitive posters. You know what I mean. You get a little mark on it and you try to erase it. Then you get this stupid shiny spot on that stupid cheap xss poster. What's a fussy guy to do? I've experimented with all sorts of stuff. Just a little rub with fine sand paper, and it's gone! H ell, there is lots of paper left over. [​IMG]

    I bet even The Preservator and Rebecca have made a few booboo's a long the way.

    I bet Framerguy can tell a story or ten!

    My favorite is when I made a ticket disappear. Ok, so it turned black.

    Did I forget to mention that I only use hand made rice paper hinges and starch paste for mounting ;)
     
  7. Amy

    Amy CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I have had great luck getting 'oxidation marks' off from metal rulers etc., by using amonia and water. (Generic glass cleaner) 3 capfuls of amonia to a full spray bottle of water. Dab some on a q-tip and gently rub off. Don't rub too hard or you'll start removing paper.
     
  8. Rebecca

    Rebecca SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Hi Lance,

    I don't know what's in the gum for mounting photos, so can't say for sure, but the ever present worry is "Does it leave any residue?"

    Even my beloved grated art gum eraser has been questioned (contains sulpher and probably some plasticisers), and shouldn't be used on open fibered papers like some Japanese papers, for fear of leaving tiny crumbs in the paper web.

    Some conservators use that blue kneadable eraser, and some use Groomstick - a type of modified rubber. Some paintings conservators even use fresh baked bread - that they make themselves with no oil and no salt! (Or eggs, etc., etc...)

    I've had trouble with Groomstick - got a bad batch that was sticky and greasy and horrible. But when it's good, it can be very useful. Here's a link on Groomstick that gives you some idea of the back and forth we all go through!

    http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/cdl/1999/0145.html

    I guess there's no cut and dry answer.

    Oh, and Less - I'm proud of you and your hinging techniques! And yes, I have made mistakes!

    Rebecca
     
  9. Less

    Less SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Part II

    Do not tell your client. It is just a minor mark on a print that, in the big picture will never have any significant value anyway. Chances are that your client will not care about a minor mark that they will never see, but why take the chance that they are one of those anal retentive people who will take advantage of anyone given the opportunity. This idea these days that these machine made limited-edition prints will have any real value or historical significance is a little silly. If you do a good job at preserving this item and design a frame well, the next person who sees it may be the next framer a hundred years from now, that was brought in from a client that picked it up at a local Flee Market.

    What do you do if this happened to an important original with a documented value of half-a-million? Sure, you'll tell the client and your insurance company. :eek: What, you don't have insurance that covers you if your pen accidentally spills its contents on that Prendergast? I hope you incorporated.

    There will be times when you will need to fess up to a mistake; this is not one of them.
    As a framer you should educate yourself as best you can, but if you are working at all, you will make mistakes. You will learn the hard way. I would put money on the fact that no matter how educated, even a professional Conservator is, they will make mistakes. How do you think people know what not to do?

    I wonder how many Grumblers’ would share their misfortunes, so that they may help another from repeating it. Might make an interesting topic.

    I just made a minor mistake two days ago. I had to frame one of those fragile Asian rubbings. They are getting to be almost as plentiful as the Limited Edition prints. I have framed many of them and I decided to hinge it with rice paper and paste instead of P90. What I did not know was there were two layers of very thin paper. The top layer was white that was almost translucent. The second layer was a little thicker and was orange/brown in color. When I applied the moistened hinge to the print, the top layer turned orange/brown, and a small portion would not be hidden by the mat. This discoloring did not change after drying. I tested a bottom corner with distilled water to see if it was the adhesive that was the culprit. Although, the two layers did not tightly bond as the hinged area did, the bottom did stain the top layer. I wonder how they bond the two layers together without changing the color of the top layer?

    My solution was to rub a white pastel into the stain, and then tone it with powder from my Mat Magic kits. I don’t believe I changed the value of the print in any significant way. If I explained what happened to the client they might respect me for my honesty or if they are having a bad day, may sue me for a million dollars for that tourist print. I do not want to find out. I have learned one of many lessons, which makes me a better framer. Oh, and guess what type of hinge I will use next time.
     
  10. AndyPan CPF

    AndyPan CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Less: I tried getting that particular type of thread going, but either I am the most inept framer on the planet, or no one wants to share. Think I only got maybe three responses to my original post. Trust me Melissa. Getting a small metal mark on a less than valuable print pales in comparison to cutting not one, but THREE, college degrees in half! Not my best day. :)
     
  11. jframe

    jframe <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><

    AndyPan,

    I imagine the reason that you didn't get many respones on your mistakes topic is that it has already been done several times. Search the archives, I know there was at least one on warped. It has been done on the Grumble too, but who knows where it may be now that the forums have a been split up.
     
  12. Melissa C.

    Melissa C. Grumbler

    Thanks for all the advice. I wasn't able to remove the marks though. The good news is that when I finally relaxed enough to look at the print again, the marks were barely visible. The better news is that it was for his mother-in-law [​IMG] so it's not a big deal!

    This was my first unfixable mistake; what a sinking feeling it was. I can't imagine how it will feel when I do something worse, as, unfortunately, it seems is bound to happen some day. Oh, and thanks for giving me some scary ideas of what to look forward to for mistakes I might make in the future. ;)
     
  13. Maureen Connolly

    Maureen Connolly Grumbler in Training


    Hi, So were you able to do anything about that ticket you turned black? Cuz... guess what I just did!
    Kimber
     
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  14. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  15. PghFrmr

    PghFrmr Grumbler in Training

    Yep, turned a Greatful Dead concert ticket black once, but only once, will never forget that lesson ...
     
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