Should you flush mount an underpinner?

srbentley65

Grumbler in Training
I am brand new and setting up a home workspace. I just purchased an AMP U300 from the WCAF show. Is it better to flush mount it or is sitting on a work table just as good? Would love to hear everyones' opinions.

Thanks,
Stephen
 
Sponsor Wanted

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Whatever works for you. 🙂

Wherever you have it, it's a good idea to have it fixed firmly so it cannot move while in use.
 

wvframer

Forum Support Team
Staff member
If you are going to flush mount it, allow a little wiggle room. If it is exact, you won't be able to make the minor adjustments that are sometimes necessary to get a good corner. And if the moulding is off a little, it will drive you crazy. I have mine 1/8 inch about the table, but 1/16 is probably enough. If you shim the underpinner, you can adjust the height it until it is just right. Works with some long and short sticks before doing anything permanent.
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Here's a great photo of a flush mounted system for that unit....


click on the thumbnail to get a good quality larger image.

My underpinner is free standing on a pedestal. I would like to flush mount it, or at least build "wings" to support longer frame legs.
It's tough to keep long pieces perfectly flush on the relatively small area of the pinner bed.
 

alacrity8

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
If you are going to flush mount it, allow a little wiggle room. If it is exact, you won't be able to make the minor adjustments that are sometimes necessary to get a good corner. And if the moulding is off a little, it will drive you crazy. I have mine 1/8 inch about the table, but 1/16 is probably enough. If you shim the underpinner, you can adjust the height it until it is just right. Works with some long and short sticks before doing anything permanent.
I have mine on a stand, with a sheet of plywood mounted to the underpinner.
Similar to the idea of wings, but with the space between filled in.
I'm not sure why this exact shape was used (It is asymmetrical), but I am very used to it.
I bought an extra V-naile, with stand, in the fall at a good price, just in case.
Planning on making a similar top.

I've never had a problem with the nailer being flush.
I did make my infeed tables on my Pistoriouses (Pistorii?) about an 1/8" below the height of the saw, for the same reasoning as your underpinner.
Occasionally it is annoying on larger/heavier moulding pulling down from flush.

Brian
 

snafu

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I think that flush mount is better but I wouldn't mount it backwards like this one
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
This isn't backwards as all of the adjustments are at the end and the gauge is set so it is read from THAT end and the frame pieces go AWAY from you. How hard is it to asemble a frame when you are in the way?

If you think it is backwards, maybe, just maybe you have it backwards.

Having it flush is preferred if you have the space and ability to build a unit around it so the top of the machine is flush to the table. That way, the cabinet helps hold the frame level to the machine.

My small camera is home right now so tomorrow, I'll bring it in and shoot my setup.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
I just went back and looked at that thumbnail and the gauge and lettering IS going the other way.

Mine came on a stand that has the gauge in it and the framing is pointing away, so apparently the company feels that having the frame away from you is preferred, otherwise they woudn't have built it that way.

With all that said, I still say it is better for the framing to be pointed AWAY from you so you aren't in the way.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Sorry about that Snafu...

...and yet mine came to me set up the other way. Go figure. :shutup:
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
For my VN-42, I was taught that you could use it either way, either from the front or back. I have used mine both ways but I prefer using it from the front.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Interesting chat. At all three shops where I've worked, the underpinner faced toward a work table at which is was nearly flush mounted. The pinning part and frame faced away from the person, with frame on table.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
The one thing I would suggest with respect to flush mounting is to position the underpinner in the corner of the table, like Home Plate on a baseball diamond. This allows the sticks to extend down the first base and third base lines, which gives you the maximum extension.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
I also have outfeed stands in the shop to help hold very large frames as they hang out from the table.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Here is mine. Excuse the dust. The cleaning lady has the century off.

From the front.

vn42Front.jpg

And from the rear. The only thing I need to do to join from the rear is move the foot pedal to the back.

vn42Rear.jpg
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
I also have outfeed stands in the shop to help hold very large frames as they hang out from the table.

Me too. I have one of these from Home Depot

 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Here's the Cassese CS89 I use.
This is the position I operate from.
It appears as though this is the orientation the company expects the machine to be operated from given the prominent labeling.
Also, the warning sticker on the clamping arm is positioned to be read from this side. From the "back" of the machine, the label would be "upside-down".
06.jpg
In the current workspace, I don't have room to operate from the "back".
When I move to the new space, I will try it (and maybe get to build a flush mount system of some sort).
This set-up is very awkward for long sticks. I do have an adjustable device for propping up long sticks, but it's not ideal. I'd prefer to have a flat surface that is flush.
 

alacrity8

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
For my VN-42, I was taught that you could use it either way, either from the front or back. I have used mine both ways but I prefer using it from the front.
The use of the terms "Front" and "Back" seem to indicate which method you think is correct, without actually telling me which way you prefer.
Which side is the "Front"? That would likely be the side one stands on.

As you mention, Underpinners can be used from either side.
Flushmounting would seem to be most useful if the frame is faced away from you.
Flushmounting the other way would either get really in the way, or just be a stand (depending on which side was mounted)

A question for framers who underpin with the frame faced toward them:
At what size do you have to lean back to not have a frame in your belly, and at what size do you stand inside of the frame being joined?

Brian
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
A question for framers who underpin with the frame faced toward them:
At what size do you have to lean back to not have a frame in your belly, and at what size do you stand inside of the frame being joined?Brian
20" seems to be my limit for standing outside. I did 2 20x24s this morning and that seems like my limit. At that size though, I have to slide the foot pedal over so I'm not a contortionist. Normally its on the right side of the joiner. For 24x36 and larger I do stand inside.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
The use of the terms "Front" and "Back" seem to indicate which method you think is correct, without actually telling me which way you prefer. Which side is the "Front"? That would likely be the side one stands on.
To me its pretty straightforward. The front is the side with the gauges and control panel. Also on my VN42 the warning labels on the top face the front.
 

alacrity8

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
To me its pretty straightforward. The front is the side with the gauges and control panel. Also on my VN42 the warning labels on the top face the front.
On my VN4s, the text is right side up for joining with the frame toward ones self, but are away from the frame.
The gauges are aligned differently on both of my underpinners.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Imagine how much easier it would be if you joined them with the frame away from you instead of in the way or around you. :shutup: :thumbsup:


"At what size do you have to lean back to not have a frame in your belly, ...?"
I think waist size comes into play here as well!!:faintthud:
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Imagine how much easier it would be if you joined them with the frame away from you instead of in the way or around you. :shutup: :thumbsup:
To each his own. I don't like joining from the rear but that's just me
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I have my underpinner on a vintage heavy duty typewriter stand which has recessed wheels that come down when you step on a pedal. This allows me to move it as needed to work on large oversized frames. To hold up the back end of larger frames I have a couple of adjustable roller support stands, and I also have a rolling support pedestal I built with its top height the same as that of the underpinner's surface.
:cool: Rick
 

nikodeumus

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
, and at what size do you stand inside of the frame being joined?
I call this a "square hulla-hoop"! 🤣
Hmm...kinda like this:
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Ok, I managed to get couple of shots of my setup:

This table is over 30 years old and was built by the last place worked at in NJ. We used to do alot of framing for the sales centers we made for housing developments.
It was built for their nailer and when they finally went under, I bought the table and the nailer. This one is a replacement of their old one.
Really like the drawer for the filler tins.

IMG_2511.JPG IMG_2512.JPG
 
Top