1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. WELCOME Grumblers
    Backup is now done at 3PM EDT. You may find the server down for up to two minutes at that time.

Small Business Health Insurance

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by Val, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    My husband has given notice at his main job, a large corporate-owned casino/ resteraunt, 20-miles away, in order to work full time at an independalty-owned local bakery, just 1 mile from our home and 1/2 block from the frame shop, and to be able to help out in the shop part-time. He has been working 7 days a week between the two places. Makes sense to stay where he's happier and closer to home, with the gas prices and all. Unfortunately, the one that he's leaving is where we have our medical/dental/vision insurance through, and the local one can't offer anything.

    What are you small business owners doing for coverage and how much are you paying for your premiums? It would be just me and him. I'm still facing two knee replacements, etc, and the thought of no coverage is freaking me out.

    Meadowbrook, through PPFA, has told me that they "are working on" a plan for health coverage, like the business coverage we now have, suited to small businesses with an affordable premium, but don't know when that will become available.

    A friend suggested going through AARP, of which we are members. I will check it out.

    Sponsor Wanted
  2. Tim Hayes.

    Tim Hayes. SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    When you get a quote for coverage ask for it with two different situations:
    1) You are both separate individual employees of your framing business (which will pay the premiums)
    2) The coverage is for you (Val) the employee of the business and he is covered as your spouse.
    It made a difference in rates for myself and my wife.
  3. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Our local Chamber of Commerce has coverage that seems to be reasonable if you're a member. I would start to check with associations that you may belong to because obviously group coverage will be priced better than individual coverage.
  4. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I hope you do not let any coverage lapse. If you do, you might or might not be covered for those knees.......

    As a individual, I pay $700/mo for a very high deductible policy with NO optical NOR dental. I have a friend who's wife has MS and their BCBS is about $20,000 per year.

    Are you both sure that this was totally thought out before the resignation was submitted?
  5. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Val, Health insurance is managed at the state level and what applies in Nevada might not in Florida and vise verse.
    That being understood, it would be almost impossible for you to qualify for individually underwritten insurance, considering your recent surgeries. Group insurance is probably your best bet, and in many states small groups, like your business, can be underwritten with no pre-existing conditions clause. These policies are not cheap, but often cost effective when you know you are gong to have some maintenance surgery in the near future.
    You might see if there is a program that allows you to continue your husbands insurance through his old business. COBRA programs (No, I don't know what the acronym stands for) allows you to purchase existing insurance from the job he is leaving for a set amount of time...allowing for a smoother transition to whatever policy you eventually end up with.
    It is very difficult to compare apples to apples in the insurance field...not all companies offer the same products (perhaps intentionally) so you have to weigh cost/benefits on an individual basis for what suits your needs best.
  6. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    One important factor is whether you have pre-exisiting conditions. If so, individual insurance will be real expensive (as if it's not already) and may contain exclusions of coverage temporaily or permanently.

    If you have pre-exisiting conditions, then joining a group, such as the Chamber of Commerce, may be your best bet.
  7. Framing Goddess

    Framing Goddess SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Val, before I got married two years ago, I paid over $350/month for a high deductible, (no vision, no dental) plan for catastrophic illness. I think I would get a corporate job before I would ever again go the route of finding my own insurance. God forbid you should have any pre-existing conditions... your knee replacements will probably be out of the question.

    Do look into COBRA, though.

    It would probably be cheaper to hire an employee than to hire your husband and lose his health insurance.

    In my book, health insurance is a MAJOR consideration. I am having some serious marital problems right now and have not pursued divorce because of the health insurance. I wish it were otherwise.

    edie the facingreality goddess
  8. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    It was totally thought out. By him. We had discussed it several times, and agreed to wait a year or so. He jumped in and made the decision without me, and for that, I'm not very happy with him at this time. He seems to be able to justify it by gas prices, by the fact that I need help in the shop, and his ego with a smaller bakery business that he can get more recognition for his efforts. Sorry, Dear, if you're reading this, but I DON'T NEED THIS RIGHT NOW!

    Sorry. I've vented. Please pardon me. Apparently, we have more work to do.

    Edit: Oh, Edie, I'm so sorry, and I'm in the same boat. 10 years of marriage...We made an agreement, and it has been broken. More than once. I love my husband, but the trust, and his decision, without me, ...ACK! I'm a mess, frightened and hope to find some more strength.
  9. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I hope everything works out for the best........
  10. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    If you are covered by his existing policy, then definitely keep that going under COBRA for the time being. And get your surgery taken care of before you let it lapse. Meanwhile, like folks said, look at policies offered by any associations you are members of, including college alumni associations, etc.

    I have one of those high-deductible, no-real-coverage policies. I call it the "look both ways before crossing the road" policy.

    And tell your politicians you want real health care reform. None of the candidates - Obama, Clinton, or McCain - has any worthwhile proposals for health care reform. They are all incrementalists, which basically means same old same old.
  11. CAframer

    CAframer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Also check out the rates through COSTCO's Executive Membership program!
  12. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I'm not sure if this would apply in your situation but it might for someone else who is looking, but when Gary lost his county job we were able to get insurance through the local farm bureau's insurnace company, Rural Insurance. Because we own a small business in a rural area, we qualified for the group health insurance they offer for farmers and small business owners. We even got a discount because we had all our other insurance with them already. Our deductible was a higher but the rates weren't bad compared to some of the other quotes we got for policies with the same deductible.

    If that isn't an option, definitely check out what any of business associations or other groups you belong to might have to offer.
  13. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I wouldn't trade being self-employed for anything, but if there is one negative, it's paying for your own health insurance.

    As PaulSF and others have mentioned, using your COBRA rights allows you to continue the coverage you currently have. However, it can be quite expensive and it's only a temporary coverage.

    The hot thing is health insurance now is Health Savings Plan coverage. It's benefits are lower premiums, tax savings, and empowerment to make decisions about preventive care. The downside is a high deductable, partially offset by the savings component. Stay healthy and that money is yours tax free. Get sick and it goes toward the deductible.

    I like it because we've been fortunate to be healthy. However, some people will neglect normal preventive care in order to save reap a tax free windfall. Bad move IMO.

    And then Val, there's earthquake insurance. :)
  14. deaconsbench

    deaconsbench SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Val and others over 50 years young - don't forget about AARP's insurance programs!
  15. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    There has been legislation, stuck in congress for quite awhile, to allow trade organizations to offer group health insurance on a nation wide basis. Right now, I think they have do it on a state by state basis and work within each state's statues. It's one of the things the professional photographic organization we belong to (PPA)has been lobbying for since they would like to provide it as a member benefit.
  16. couture's gallery

    couture's gallery PFG, Picture Framing God

    hurry up and turn 65..then get on medicare...our insurance went from 750.00 a mo. to 1550 a mo. in one years time...then to 2890 a month a year later ..and we had no claims....my wife had breast cancer 7 yrs ago and has been healthy since..we had no claims and we still could not find insur we could afford..so we did without (scary) for 18 months until we hit the magic 65....good luck trying to find a group plan..
  17. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    One of the reasons I am giving up the store is because I need affordable health insurance. Not only the premium but the actual cost of visits and pharmacy and dental. Most individual health care plans cover catastrophic only. Having a job that offers health care is worth a lot more than the share of the premiums they pay. The actual co-pays will be much less. I was told 10 years ago that to accept a job where you didn't have those benefits you should be making at least $2 more per hour than the job with benefits. It is considerably higher now, more like $5 an hour just to cover benefits. So, hopefully your husband is getting an increase in pay.

    The cards are definitely not stacked in our favor being self employed. Most people who are have a spouse with an income with benefits. So, it might be pretty risky losing those benefits Val. Definitely do what Paul said and get your knees fixed while you still have COBRA. There is no way to hide that as a pre-existing condition.

    I have to say when you posted on having workers insurance to protect you if you were sick and had to close the store made me glad I am closing the store and getting a real job and real coverage. I've been very lucky flying without a net for so long.

    I think in order to be self employed and survive you better be making plenty of money and have a great retirement plan in order to survive. Those of us living month to month(not saying you are, I am)really don't stand much of a chance for the long haul.

    Sorry to be Debbie Downer.

    Would just hate to see you make an irreversible decision. Make sure you are prepared for what all the costs down the road will be.
  18. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    One of the things that really concerned us when our daughter was about to graduate college last December was the fact that she would no longer be covered by our health insurance. Luckily, our state has insurance available for those who don't qualify for it elsewhere that she would have be eligible for (BadgerCare). She was fortunate to get a job right out of school with a very good benefits right after she graduated. I've been considering applying to the same place even though it would be a 60 mile round trip commute because the benefits are really good and the company treats their employees really well.
  19. WoodWork Lover

    WoodWork Lover Grumbler

  20. mayos

    mayos MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    As Paul C. said, check into the Medical Savings Account. It works great. You must take a high deductible plan, ususally $1`,000 or more then you determine how much to put into a savings or investment account to be used solely for medical purposes. It's pretty lenient about what is classified as "medical". I know you can pay for eyeglasses, Dr. visits, etc. from this account. This account will continue to accure year after year.

    Be careful because there's also what's called a "Flexible Medical Spending Account". It's similar to the Medical Savings account EXCEPT you must spend all the money in the account every year for medical expenses or you lose it. This is not the case with the "Medical Savings Account".
  21. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    That's really sad news Val, I wish I could tell you what's the solution to this (I wish Byron would ask them to re-hire him - driving 20 miles is worth a good health coverage!).

    People who are married should know that they should never reach such decisions on a whim or without prior consultations with the spouse.

    The moment one is married, such important, unilateral decisions are forfeited, and rightly so.
  22. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    I just want to return to part of my earlier comment, about how none of our politicians are supporting real health care reform. The most we get is lip service and little tweaking around the edges. And we all know, if all they do is tweak around the edges, the health insurance industry will find a way around that before you can blink.

    I don't care whether you are a Democrat or a Republican, this is one of the most urgent issues facing us. I'm particularly puzzled at how the Republicans, generally considered more friendly to business than Democrats, haven't gotten behind real reform. Health insurance costs aren't just a huge challenge to small business owners like ourselves. The costs are making big businesses less and less profitable, and less competitive against foreign companies operating from countries that have national health insurance.

    The only ones with a vested interest in perpetuating our cr*ppy system are the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Everyone else -- health care professionals, manufacturing companies, foodservice companies, small companies -- is crying out for real reform. You get the National Association of Manufacturers, the trade associations for all these non-health industries, and the lobbying offices of every Fortune 500 company that isn't in health insurance or pharmaceuticals to back real reform, and they will blow away the insurance industry like so much sawdust.

    OK, I'm done ranting for now. Carry on.
  23. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    We have City Care Health insurance, it is through the Sharp system. For myself and Mary, it's $822.00 per month for full coverage with a deductible. $15.00 office visits, nothing for in stay hospital, up to $50.00 prescriptions.

    If I had my way, I would outlaw ALL health insurance. If hospitals and doctors did not have the deep pockets of the insurance companies to gouge, I think you would see a very rapid reduction in all medical costs. Of course, since I would have to be king to make this come about, I would also have to pass a law that protects patients real property from medical bills.

    That is the main problem with American health care, it is immune from fair market influences. Health care should be universal coverage or fair market. The present system of health insurance leaves way too many people with no health care at all.

  24. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Well said Paul! It makes no sense we have not addressed this problem. It all comes down to the insurance companies and drug companies buying their way through Washington. That is why we need to send everybody home with any ties to Washington and start over. Get people in office who are not "obligated" and who can make decisions based on what their constituents voted them in to office for. Government for the people, by the people my ###................
  25. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

    I wish John had his way!

    whoops, wrong forum...
    But a real good point.
  26. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I saw an interesting documentary the other day about how other countries have dealt with the issue of health care. It covered everything from Britain's social system to countries where everyone is guaranteed insurance through private companies but the government puts restrictions on the companies that prohibit them from denying anyone coverage and guarantee you can keep your insurance if you lose your job or switch jobs. There were some interesting sytems, all of which worked well. Some of these countries were on the same road we are on not long ago and realised it was hurting both businesses and citizens. They came up with solutions that worked for them. Some of the other ones they looked at were Japan, Taiwan, Germany and Austria. I'll see if I can find a link to it.
  27. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    I have said this before and I will say it again:

    The moment every single politician has the same medical coverage as many Americans (aka none) we MAY have a health care system.

    But not a minute before that. And if you want that system to be in place much sooner: Ensure that no money can be donated to any politician from pharmaceuticals, their lackeys, lobbyists or agents.

    Ah yes, somebody will tell me that money is an expression of free speech. Yeah, sure.
  28. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    Next time you go to the doctor (if you can afford it), look at all the people behind the reception desk. They may all be wearing scrubs, but I bet that none of them are doctors or nurses. They are all there to handle the paperwork for insurance claims.

    Ditto what Paul said about forcing politicians to have the same coverage as the rest of us. Look at John McCain, for instance. He's in his 70s, and probably suffering the continuing ill effects of his treatment in North Vietnamese POW camps. Take away McCain's Senate coverage and Medicare, and you better believe he'll be singing our tune.
  29. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    If you are happy with our present system, always vote incumbent. If you are not happy, never vote incumbent, no matter who it is, or what they have done.

    This is the only possible way of getting the powers that be, to start thinking that constituents are more important than lobbyists.

  30. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Edie-You are breaking my heart. There are very few Grumblers I admire more than you
  31. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    There are so many people who can't afford decent insurance, and there are at least 45 million legal Americans who can't afford even the cr*ppy high deductible, low coverage plan that I shell out for. For these millions of our fellow citizens, health insurance plan is the Emergency Room. That's the only place they can go when they lose their fingers in an industrial accident, or catch the flu, or get pregnant, or get cancer. If they had a doctor they could turn to, their care wouldn't be so costly, but our system is so screwed up, they only have the ER. And the ER is very costly.

    A common argument against universal health care is the complaint about the government making decisions regarding your health care' I'd be just as concerned about the heartless beancounters at Aetna, Blue Cross, Pacificare, etc. Because their decision comes down to this -- do we give me the health care I need, or do we deny my claim and ensure that our CEO can buy that fifth home, in Aspen?

    If you think national health insurance comes down to a government bureaucrat making decisions about your health care, then you are believing exactly what Pfizer and Aetna and Pacificare want you to believe. What it means is that everyone in this country is entitled to see a doctor, to have preventive care before they need the ER, regardless of whether they work or not. Regardless of whether they work for an auto manufacturer or a local restaurant (or frame shop). And maybe we all pay for it with our taxes, but studies have shown, repeatedly, that universal health care systems are far less expensive than the flawed system we currently have. So the overall spending is less, and when you spread that out over the entire American population, it's entirely equitable. Some people here have mentioned paying $400/month or more for health insurance. I don't think our individual tax burdens would go up by $5000/year. First, we're spreading the cost widely. Second, people will seek out more preventive care, which usually costs far less than letting their health care problems fester, and then going to the ER.
  32. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    I'm going to toss one other thing into the mix. As part of the Iraqi reconstruction plan that followed our toppling of Saddam Hussein's brutal regime, our tax dollars are paying for universal health care for Iraqis. So I must ask this -- why is universal health care good enough for Iraqis, but not good enough for us?
  33. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    I remember when people stuck it out for sake of the kids, now it's health insurance?????

    Edie, you have my sympathy, there has to be a better way.

  34. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    Makes me wonder why our government thinks we would rather have multi billion dollar weapons systems that never get used except for testing. Why our government is convinced the American people would much rather have Mideast crusades, er, wars, that cost into the trillions if you figure long term costs. These government bigwigs really think we would rather have a government that thinks health care and housing is not as important as a good weapons system or a war.

    They lied to us to get their war started, why can't they lie to us to give us health care?

    Our Government knows we love seeing our own people in rags, living in culverts, going with out even the basics, because we know our taxes are going toward much more important things. Such as studies to determine the feasibility of even more expensive weapons systems, anything other than looking after those who are in need.

    Edmund Burk said it best: "The surest way for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

    Face it folks, water boarding is not the most honorable way to get information, nor is it reliable.

    This country at one time was a shining example to the world, look at us now.

    Vote the jokers out.

  35. CAGallery

    CAGallery MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Hi Val,

    The first thing you should do is find out what the insurance laws are in your state. We live in NY, a state that has very good laws. For instance, as long as you are continuously covered by insurance you can switch to another insurance company and cannot be denied. If this is the case in your state then it is very important to make sure that your insurance does not lapse.

    We have Empire BCBS and in order to have a group policy you only need two full time employees. Full time can be defined by you so it can be 20 or so hours a week. If you have no other employees then it may pay to have your husband employed by you and to take two individual policies. Group insurance plans (even small groups) are always much better and cheaper than the same coverage in an individual policy.

    There are different types of coverage available through BCBS. We happen to have the most expensive one available to us as we unfortunately need it and pay $1720 a month for a couple. This includes a prescripton plan but no dental. When we stay in network (our plan offers one of the largest networks) our co-pay is $12 per doctor visit, $0 for x-ray type of services and medication deductibles range from $5, - $25 depending on whether it is generic or not. When we go out of network they pay 80% of reasonable and customary charges which is a little vague so we always check before. In the past 10 years I can only recall going out of network twice even though both my husband and I have gone through major illness.

    I don't mean to scare you with these high rates -- rates are based upon the type of policy and location. Here in NY we are community rated and since we live in a county with one of the highest birth rates in the US our rates are higher than most. Different counties pay substantially less. Even in NY there are much cheaper policies available that are a fraction of the price. When we had several employees we had management on the better plan and others on an HMO plan and I was amazed at the difference in price.

    Cobra is a good idea until you have time to research all your options.

    If you need any help with insurance please feel free to e-mail. I have alot of experience with medical insurance both as a benefits administrator and as a consumer.

    Good Luck.

  36. David N Waldmann

    David N Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    COBRA is not an expensive alternative, in fact it is likely to be the least expensive option you have unless your current plan is a really good one. It may seem like a lot if your employer has been paying all or part of it, but the employer is not allowed to charge you more 2% above their cost. I believe that larger companies are required to offer coverage under COBRA for up to 18 months if you want it.
  37. Rick Bergeron - CPF

    Rick Bergeron - CPF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    • Be very very cautious when considering insurance offered by organizations which claim to be self insured.
    • Be very cautious when considering insurance offered by professional organizations as groups.
    • If they are not registered or licensed to offer insurance products in your state, think long and hard about participating.
    We finally received reimbursement for issues with claims payments due to the above. That was only because we ended up paying all the claims out of our pocket. That put us in "group A" for reimbursement. Those who waited for the insurance payments were in "Group C". The several thousand others who were not able to pay the claims out of their own pocket were not as fortunate. It only took 5 years, lots of headaches and we're still under a gag order by the federal grand jury for the criminal procedings.

    Another term that we learned very quickly was "Utilization factor". The annual premium increases are based upon how much you used the insurance over the past year. We go out of our way to reduce doctor visits or any event that might cause a claim to be submitted but the health care industry goes out of its way to increase doctor visits.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  38. mayos

    mayos MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    PaulSF....I'm curious, where did you find the information about the US paying for universal health care for Iraqi?
  39. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God


    I agree that your taxes probably won't go up $5000 per year. Mine will go up $15000 per year instead. The issue of Government (read as Taxpayer) takeover of health insurance as currently proposed is just another transfer of wealth scheme. The true flaw with health insurance has been the gradual change from "insurance" for catastrophic costs to third party payment of all medical bills no matter how minor. There are many villains, too numerous to mention in this post, in this transition in the definition of insurance. The irony is that the current system is such a cash cow that it has led to an extraordinary increase in the availability and expense of exotic treatment, which would never have happened in a "socialist" system. The almost routine success in joint replacement instead of pain management is an example of this.

    To Val, COBRA is the most logical way to at least give you some breathing time until you can find a solution.

    For those of you that disagree with my harsh views on this subject, my background in this field is extensive - 23 years of managing the Retirement and Insurance program with my Airline Pilots Union.
  40. Tim Hayes.

    Tim Hayes. SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Here are the websites for both the US Senate and House of Representatives. It is relatively easy to find and then contact your senator and representative. I know at times it seems futile but if enough constituents write(email) them often enough it may help influence change. We need to be consistent and work hard to get their attention. It is a free and relatively easy way to way to contact them. If we do little or nothing we will continue to be victims of a dysfunctional health care system and other issues facing our nation.

    U.S. Senate http://www.senate.gov/
    U.S. House http://www.house.gov/

    I respectfully urge you to visit these sites, become familiar with them, bookmark them on your computers, and contact both your U. S. Senator and U. S. Representative regarding your concerns for health care and all other issues they can influence. In your correspondence let them know that you are a voting member of their district and that you strongly urge them to ... So please take a few minutes of your "Grumble time" and direct it to those in office who "run" OUR country. Make this a frequent part of your weekly routine.


  41. AWG

    AWG SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Quite frankly, Val, your best choice is to try and talk your husband back into a "real" (read: benefits-providing) job.

    When we first bought the gallery we decided to run the place on our own - no outside income or safety net. After about a year and change the lack of steady paycheck began to wear thin. It was after Kassandra slammed a finger in the door of our van that we realized how dumb it was to go un-covered. Butterfly bandages and lots of Betadine got us through that.

    My brother-in-law is essentially stuck in his current job because the health costs involved with cystic fibrosis would be unmanageable without the benefits his employer provides. As it is it's a struggle.

    As much as I'd rather work for myself fulltime, it was (is) smarter for one of us to provide those benefits (that's MY role at the Gallery). When we had our major tragedy a year and a half ago the out-of pocket costs were nil. Without my insurance coverage it would have been well over $20K.

    Get yourself covered!!

  42. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    The US has the most expensive health care system in the world but not the best. We only rank 37th among other industrialized countries. Many of these countries had the same problems we now face with out of control costs and private insurance. Many of the solutions they came up with did not involve socializing medicine but did involve putting regulations on the insurance companies and cost controls on the medical industry that guarantee that all citizens have healthcare. The insurance companies have to provide a basic level of coverage, with the cost of this either picked up by the government or paid by the employer or the consumer with the fees based on income. The insurance companies sell add ons and that is where they make their profit. Some countries also set caps on how much doctors and hospitals can charge for their services, which really isn't that different than what insurance companies do now except they would be the same everywhere.

    Many of the countries that have these hybrid private/government systems are in Europe and Asia and are some of our biggest competitors on the global market. Their lower healthcare costs give them an edge in that competition since their businesses don't have the same high employee expenses ours do.
  43. surferbill

    surferbill SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It's interesting to see how health insurance is a universal concern of so many framers.

    I have a very high deductable with my group plan, which keeps the costs down somewhat. I still think my premiums are too high though.

    I've been thinking about how I'm going to exit this business in 5-10 years, and having health insurance when I do is my main concern. So far, I haven't thought of a good way, unless I still own the business in some way.

    It's a shame when health care becomes the main reason why people keep/lose their job, business, get divorced, retire, etc. Without health insurance you are just rolling the dice, and hoping for the best.
  44. PaulSF

    PaulSF PFG, Picture Framing God

    Jerry, it was several years ago, right after Saddam was ousted. I was able to download a pdf of the plan from a government website. Can't recall where exactly now, but it really stuck in my craw -- we are paying for universal health care for them, but not us? If war is what it takes, perhaps the US could attack California! I'm sure they've wanted to on occasion!
  45. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    There has been talk in the upper Midwest here about ceding from the union and having Canada annex us.
  46. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    This thread is starting to sound like that old coal miners song, "I owe my soul to the company store." People are bing held captive to their jobs by health insurance, at least the ones who still have jobs...........or health insurance. It also seems marriages as well.

    I am starting to think perhaps the only solution is to farm out our government to another country, like India or Malaysia. I think it would cost us a whole lot less, and since they hardly understand a word of English, it would be about the same as trying to make our present system of government understand us.

    Wars and expensive military toys would have to be voted on by all the people, not just a few fat cats in Washington.

    Never vote incumbent until we have a government we are proud of, I honestly believe that is the only solution.

    I wonder how the long it would take all those bigwigs who support water boarding to admit, while being water boarded, that they lied to the people to get voted into their jobs? I wonder if they would still approve of water boarding?

    Vote the jokers out!

  47. mik

    mik SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Health Saving Accounts are a hot item right now. But be sure to read all the fine print ....
    *you will be required to have a high deductible $1000 - $5000. (mine is $5000 to keep the premiums under $300/month
    *you do not have to set up the savings account part of the plan if you decide not to, however you will not get the tax deductions if you don't have the savings account. I have my own savings account at my credit union.
    * be sure to find out what the monthly fees will be for maintaining the savings account...some are as high a $10.00 per month
    * be sure to find out how you can get you money out of your account...some use debit cards....more and more doctors are not taking debit/credit cards because of the high fees.
    * be sure to find out how quickly you can get you $$$$.

    In addition, be careful of any of the discount type of plans...they are not insurance plans you pay out of pocket and then are reimbursed.

    What this county needs in not universal health insurance we need and should demand universal health coverage. No more nickel and diming on claims.
  48. gemsmom

    gemsmom SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It is a mandate here in Massachusetts that everyone have health insurance. You can get very inexpensive coverage if your income falls below a certain level. One of the problems the commonwealth is facing is the govenment underestimated the number of people who couldn't afford insurance and need to be subsidized. It's a mess. I am sure we can all expect to be paying for this debacle in the form of higher taxes.

    Do any of you know who pays for the uninsured who come to the ER? We do every time we pay our premiums. The insurance companies pay into a fund the hospitals draw on for treating the uninsured.

    Here in Massachusetts we get to pay for the invetro fertilization of infertile couples. A couple we are friends with exhausted their three tries w/o getting pregnant. But they did have the money to adopt a baby from China. I'm sorry, but having a child is not life threatening.

    I think there should be a basic, affordable plan available for everyone. Anyone who wants additional coverage should be able to pick and choose what they want and pay for it with additional premiums.
  49. pollyann

    pollyann CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    This is exactly why I have been where I have for so long, at M's. I have applied at almost all of the independant shops in this area and none of them provide insurance to their employees. My only choice would be to leave the framing industry, but I enjoy what I do and am not willing to give it up just yet.

    When I got married 2 yrs ago I thought I was finally free of M's, but then my husband lost his job and has not been able to find one that offers insurance either. My ex husband was covering our children under his plan, but they keep changing it for the worst and now I will be adding them back onto my insurance. Sometimes we have to do what we don't like for the sake of our family and survival.
  50. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    That's the type of system some of the European countries have (I think Switzerland was one. Everyone is guarnteed a basic level of coverage at a price they can afford, from free to a certain maximum amount. No one can be denied for any reason, what is covered is standard to all basic policies offered by all companies, and you can take your insurance with if you switch jobs. The companies then sell add on policies and that is were they make their profit.
Sponsor Wanted

Share This Page

Sponsor Wanted