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Small Business Health Insurance

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
As usual you're right John. It's not only that we are willing to pay but too few even know what they are paying. Why should they care "my insurance covers it". Then they wake up one day and have to pay for the insurance. Now the system is busted. I think we should receive payment from the insurance and be forced to cut a check to each and every provider. When is the last time you've heard of anybody pricing a pediatrician? I know first hand that if you're paying out of pocket, doctors will get quite aggressive with their pricing. Who really cares as long as they have insurance?
 

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Sure, our free market system is supposed to "self police" itself. We're allowed to charge "what the market will bear". But what do you call it when pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies are allowed to get together and set prices and tell the drug store what they will get paid for a particular drug when they dispense it. But when the drug stores try to get together to tell the insurance companies what they will accept for dispensing the drug, it's illegal and called price fixing. This isn't fair in our system, but it's allowed.
 

AnneL

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ever try finding out what a medical procedure will cost so you could budget for it? Hospitals and doctors offices don't like to give that info out. I tried recently for some surgery I need and never did get an answer, told there were too many variables. Unfortunately, my insurance doesn't cover 100%, so I wanted to know what my part was going to be. Since I couldn't find out, I decided not to have it done and to live with the problem instead. I'm not alone in my decision to forgo need medical care, more people are having to do that as costs go up and insurance covers less.

The other problem with using the market to control health care prices is that the good doctors are going to be more expensive. I don't know about you, but when someone in my family is sick, cost isn't going to be the first thing I look at. I want someone who knows what they are doing, not the cheapest doctor in town. Somehow knowing you saved money even though the patient died as a result isn't very comforting. Currently one of the problems with our healthcare system is a lack of information on the performance of doctors and hospitals so it is hard to choose the best options.

Alot of this debate comes down to how our society views medical care. Is it a basic human right or a privelege? We tend to treat it as a privelege in our country where as other countries see it as a basic human right. They believe in maintaining a healthy populace for the good of their country in both economic terms and for national security.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
The US handles it as a right. If you can't afford it, its handed to you. The only problem is that its not the best or really easy to get. It's not even good....been in a Medicare nursing home lately? So we have health care for everybody who need medical attention. Shoot, you don't even have to be an American to cash in on the American free health care plan. But hey, that guy over there has his own room. That doctors office has carpet. I demand the best care. Well then go get it but the best is not your right. Those sniveling about health care system haven't seen anything yet if the government takes over.

I remember mom blocking the door of an exam room when a doctor was heading out after giving me sub par attention for the 20th time. We found another doctor in another city. Then we found another doctor after that guy in another state. We finally found the best. What reason is there for doctors to excel in their craft if their rates are predetermined and their patients are set?

Thank GOD we don't have socialized medicine. You probably will have to go to whatever doctor you're assigned to. My father in law is in a nursing home about 2 hours from our house. We're trying to get him closer but hey....when its free you take what is given to you. This is like complaining that food stamps won't buy you enough steak.
 

JRB

PFG, Picture Framing God
Sure, our free market system is supposed to "self police" itself. We're allowed to charge "what the market will bear". But what do you call it when pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies are allowed to get together and set prices and tell the drug store what they will get paid for a particular drug when they dispense it. But when the drug stores try to get together to tell the insurance companies what they will accept for dispensing the drug, it's illegal and called price fixing. This isn't fair in our system, but it's allowed.
A very wealthy congressman?

John
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I have no problem with mandated auto insurance. The state says I must have it or post a bond of financial security. Period. Everybody should have it and I have to pay for it

Do I think it's too expensive? You bet. And, I can shop around to find te best deal available

Ever ask what it will take to fix a car (or frame a picture)?

Ever look at the markup on a wheel eplaced by a bodyshop when thtsame wheel can be bought at AutoZone for one-fifth?

Should my employeer be required to pay for my auto insurance? After all, I have to drive to get to work.

Is the most basic necessity a right or a privilege?

Or, is it a responsibility for each of us to provide for ourselves

I'll bet there are more than 45 million people without car insurance (There are probably that many illegal aliens without insurance in AZ, CA and TX alone)

We need a solution and it starts with whom will pay for it

Most expect that it will become an entitlement: those in agreement need to send an extra $100-150/mon directly to the IRS today (Yeah,like that's gonna happen)
 

deaconsbench

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
an article from nfib site

More than half of small businesses -- 56 percent -- do not offer a company health-care plan to employees, with most stating that providing coverage would be too costly, according to a recent survey conducted by online payroll service SurePayroll.

The survey also showed that the number of small-business owners offering plans has decreased dramatically in the past two years.
Thirty-two percent fewer small businesses indicate they are now offering health insurance than in a 2006 SurePayroll survey.
Twenty-eight percent of owners who do not offer the benefit said they thought it was the responsibility of small-business owners to provide a health-care plan for employees.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Deacon-I wonder what percentage of those that do provide it are one or two person shops, usually providing for themselves and one or two key people? (sounds like us)

I understand an employeer using a benefit package as a means to get people to work (and stay) with them, but never understand why it was a responsibility?
 

Tim Hayes.

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Would it be wrong to insist that in order to qualify for a "free" federal health insurance plan that individuals provide certification that they have participated in a better living education program(nutrition, exercise, etc) and agree to practice healthy living? I am not suggesting a whole new bureaucracy to police compliance. Just a set of ongoing standards (ie. weight, non smoking, etc). In other words if you persist in eating poorly and smoking you pay your own way (yeah I know we pay) for health insurance.
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
Now Tim, that is starting to be like 'big brother' watching out for you.

The next thing after that will be the 'cholesterol cops' fining you for going to Burger King.

Everybody is down on smokers right now, just wait until they go after fat people.

How about alcohol, that is really bad, we should do away with it. We tried that once and it didn't work.

Kinda like the 'war on drugs'. More people use illegal drugs than ever before.
 

Warren Tucker

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Bob, I don’t think providing health insurance for employees is a responsibility but it sure makes sense. Health insurance is a requirement to work for us. We show each employee exactly how much his health insurance costs the company (from 3 to 7K a year) and make sure he understands that’s part of his compensation as is his actual wages. So an employee making 30K could actually be making 37K when the insurance is added in. If an employee gets insurance through a spouse (a few have gotten married while working for us), we add the premium to their pay. The big advantage to the employee is that she’s actually paying for her health insurance with before tax dollars. If she bought her own health insurance, it would be with after tax dollars. Our total health insurance costs run around $40k a year which is affordable. There have been a few years when the only raise anyone has gotten has been the increased cost of her health insurance.

As far as I’m concerned, not having health insurance is not only stupid; it’s an unethical abdication of one’s basic responsibility to society. Everyone has an ethical obligation to work enough to feed, cloth, house, and buy health insurance for himself and his family. It can be, with very few exceptions, done, and I find it hard to sympathize with people who don’t fulfill these basic obligations not to become a burden to others. I did it and everyone I know has done it. If you have to work two jobs, not take vacations, never eat out or go to movies, so be it. I’ve done all of these things willingly, and I managed not to let envy of others more fortunate make me bitter towards others or my country. It’s never occurred to me that anyone owes me health insurance, a house, or a full diet, or a job, for that matter. I have no right to the fruits of others’ labor, and that’s what most social hand outs amount to.

There is a big difference, but one that’s not generally recognized, between health insurance and pre paid health care. I’m sure a person who’s been continually insured (it’s not insurance when you buy it after you need it) can buy a catastrophic policy that would limit out of pocket expenses to $10,000 a year ( 10K can be scraped together somehow) but doesn’t cover doctor visits.

BTW, I know a way to cure the health care crisis that won’t bankrupt the country but it has no chance of being adopted. First make health insurance a national product: no mandates for chiropractic care, dental anesthesia, male potency drugs, substance abuse (we also owe society responsible behavior) female fertility coverage. All health care premiums should be considered tax payments and would be credits rather than deductions (of course, up to a specific amount). Physician’s assistants and nurse practitioner should be allowed independent practice with certain limitations. Mal practice insurance would be up to the patient. If you think you might want to sue your doctor, buy the insurance. Your insurance company would decide if you had a case. I think most couples would buy well baby insurance, for example, that would pay for an unforeseen outcome. It wouldn’t be too expensive since such occurrences are rare. All of the above, btw, would probably be implemented under a national health insurance scheme except there’d be coverage for personal weaknesses as alcohol and drug dependence which are excluded under my plan.
 

AnneL

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
Surely Anne you don't believe anything that US News and World Report says do you?

In 1985 they was shouting about "Global Cooling" and the impending ice age coming. We were all suppose to die because we couldn't grow food in perpetual winter.

Now Chicken Little says we have "Global Warming". Which is it?

The sky is falling the sky is falling!
 

AnneL

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Actually Jerry, I do. I get news and information from a variety of sources and this is just one of them. By the way, did you read the articles or are you just critising for the sake of it?

The one is just a report of what is a growing trend in health care (medical tourism.) What I found really interesting was the chart comparing costs for various procedures (such as knee surgery) between US hospitals and hospitals in other countries and also what Medicare says they will pay for it.
 
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