Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by cvm, Dec 18, 2017.
Framebridge: Susan Tynan http://one.npr.org/i/562899710:565752146
Quite a different response here than on one of the FB framer groups...
Just read it. Couldn't load the content.
Framebridge had to happen, and more Framebridges will come along, all at our expense. We brought it on ourselves.
What is the gist of the FB comments?
If I had to keep it simple, I would say "sour grapes". Or maybe something else, but that's the closest I can come up with. I'm sure you'd be more than welcome at https://www.facebook.com/groups/underpinner/ if you want the full story.
Frankly, after reading the article I admire her. She saw a need and is working to fulfill it. Fact is, the vast majority have never, ever had anything custom framed (90% at last count) so that is a huge open market. If they can get even just a fraction of the market (even if they never got an existing customer) that is huge.
I have no problem with her model, either.
The world is almost online. Why shouldn't we be?
And why couldn't we do the same? Provide a solid competitive quote, matching Framebridge, then direct it to a local frameshop, cutting out the extra shipping. Jeez; we could do it cheaper.
Ted for Prez!
Didja ever notice that, unlike on FaceBook, you can't Like your own post on TG?
Early in the interview she said that she was charged 400.00 ea. to frame four 40.00 posters and that was the impetus for her to start her business.
She felt like she got fleeced and she probably was.
Whoever that framer was did us all a disservice by not discussing budget/wants at the beginning of the design process. I can hardly blame her.
There is still a viable market for 'bespoke' framing.... and we have all framed cheap posters extravagantly, when that is what the customer wants... but I always give customers options at the outset of the process to discern what it is they desire, and what charge they might be facing.
At the start of my career in framing, I was at a friend's house. She had three small girls, a tight household budget, and a husband who had just completed a 10K run. He was given a medal, a certificate, and a bib.
She took it to a frame shop.
Here are her exact words:
"I wanted to frame these for Joe, and I ended up paying $450. I could have bought a new dryer for that".
She was almost in tears. I never forgot it. My customers do not get intimidated. Or screwed over. They get a good job at a price they like. And I get repeat customers. Betcha she goes to framebridge.ca.
She is a total failure. Someone who never made a frame, who doesn't know the styles, history, finishing or anything about framing at all. She is just pathetic.
Wow... How exactly is she a failure? She saw a problem and a need, and is taking action to improve on something. What have you done, other than call people pathetic for trying, who are actually taking the initiative to make something happen? Have you never tried something and not had it work out? If not, then maybe you're not trying hard enough. You do realize that most highly successful people have tried several things that didn't work before "making it" right? Your over reaction to calling someone pathetic really shows a lot of insecurity in yourself. She sounds like a winner to me. Taking on an industry totally resistant to changing old outdated ways of doing things, and opening herself up to criticism from people like yourself. It takes a lot of nerve and risk tolerance to do what she is doing.
I'd feel horrible if a customer felt that way after leaving my shop as well. I ALWAYS give options, higher priced and lower, and I've had quite a few customers that came in clenched up expecting car salesman tactics or a snooty "You're just not worth framing for if you're not dropping $600 per a frame." attitude end up relaxed and happy with their choices by the time they walk out the door.
That being said, quite a few people are shocked by the price of custom framing, until I point out all the things I'm doing for them that they can't get from buying online. Sometimes they still walk out the door without buying anything, but sometimes they come back with a piece that is precious to them rather than the cheap poster they were originally thinking of framing.
Personally I'd like all the business. Cheap posters and extravagant precious items.
Having worked for them previously during their growth from 50 frames a day to 500 frames a day I can tell you it's a service many have missed the mark on.
Frame shop owners have not bought into a model that allows one source to do all the online framing design and then source it to a local frameshop close to the customer. I'm sorry but this was tried with FrameMe and people (framers) would not buy into the concept. Now many have bought into FrameMe as a personal online store for their shop only, and that has done well for some people. But unless you're willing to be in the new digital frontier of framing you won't feel like you're getting rewarded for it.
Find your niche that works for you, and stop worrying about others niches. That's their deal not yours.
This kind of organization should find another terminology for it, maybe "low end framers" or
"poster framers", something like that. So the public knows that they are not one of us. We are
the framers, frame makers and high end custom framers. They can spend as much money
on marketing themselves but will never become framers, the business model just not
Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but they frame stuff, so are framers. The public don't give a **** about them not being one of you. In fact, with that attitude you are going to quickly alienate yourself from the market. The more you type, the more insecure you look.
They are framers and the do custom.
And they may frame posters and prints but they also frame high dollar original pieces by well known artists. So call them any name you want but basically you are coming off as jealous and insecure of your own business.
If anything take the time and make yourself stand out from the crowd in your niche.
Do what's best for your store and your clients.
We can do the part that you describe. Where she succeeds and we fail is that AOL big wigs and other 1%ers are not willing to invest tens of millions of dollars into our ventures. That money is brilliantly used on marketing while we are preaching that word of mouth is all we need. We do not get the pricing that she can get through bulk purchasing (which she can also start because of those tens of millions of dollars). I don't blame her for taking advantage of her advantages but she is sinking the industry under the weight of her competition and misinformation to the public, and the suppliers are happily allowing her to do it to their own and the industry in general's long term detriment. This is the framing industry's "bubble." It will burst when she cashes out and the suppliers that support her and the remaining framers will pay the price.
But why should we care what she and the rest of the industry is doing? It's only my livelihood.
And Ted, if you get something going I am all in.
You can quote it and say how much you like it. With special colored letters.
Or print the words, and frame them, then post the results in the 'frame design' section.
I might sound insecure a little. Overworked. This year was exceptional and it's gonna be better
this coming year. My skill level is sufficient for me to feel completely relaxed. I wish you Kevin and Chris feel
the same. Just bought new molder, arriving Friday, will buy new table saw after Christmas, too busy to deal with it now. Honestly, never felt better!
I have a few doubts about a few things she said.
She goes on about how educated and experienced she is and then claims victim status when she goes into a frame shop? I sure would like to see a photo of her $400.00 frames.
If you buy a BMW instead of an inexpensive Chevy do you blame the dealer?
She admits to loosing money, failing deadlines, production issues and staff retention problems yet her claim is a money saving new paradigm for custom framing?
She strikes me as a opportunist who will bail on the investors when the time and money is just right.
That said......... I've mentioned several times that what our industry needs most is a public relations makeover. We could all learn a few things from Framebridge's marketing approach.
Indeed. My sentiment too.
Its like going to a jewelry store for a wedding band. "I paid $6,000 on a ring?" ...well, why didn't you buy the $200 ring instead?
The traditional model of frameshops fail where Framebridge is now succeeding. Amazon, Facebook, Instagram... They are all consumer centric in their business models.
The traditional frameshops wait for their customers to come to them.
While you wait others like Framebridge are going to the customer and fixing their pain points.
I'd like to re-phrase Doug's question:
If you pay $30,000 for that BMW instead of the $25,000 advertised price, do you blame the dealer?
You sure do.
Consumers Reports says buying a new car ranks right up there as one of the most unpleasant things in life. Now, imagine what they say about the cost of picture framing, where everybody has a story about getting upsold by a frame shop.
So where do I get the 30 some million investor dollars so that I can blitz the social media marketing like them. We all have online shopping options on our websites now. We all market on social media to the best that our comparatively tiny budgets will allow. How do we do what she did?
You create a solid plan, prove you can do something different, shake things up a bit, make improvements to better serve customers and show that it can be profitable and start pitching investors.
And what if you buy an expensive Chevy instead of a cheap BMW? I can assure you there are plenty of Chevys that are waaay more expensive than plenty of BMWs, in case you're wondering. You could easily spend $120k on a Chevy and only $35k on a Bimmer. Heck, you can spend $80k on a pickup.
Maybe I should give her a credit, someone who has no idea about framing at all, total zero is taking over your businesses. She is probably drinking wine now and laughing out really hard.
Given that her company frames more product in a day than you probably do in a month or few, I'd say they know at least something about framing. 1700 reviews at a 4.7 rating, and I'd say the public agree. LOL
It doesn't bother me for a second, my business is growing. How are you doing this year?
Good to hear. And I'm fantastic! 9pm and still plugging away, waiting for prints to finish. It's been a fantastic year, and looking forward to more growth next year.
Then why are you crying about it? Do you care who she is?
I didn't go to Harvard business school and I'm not that smart. I like your suggestion but I wouldn't even know where to start with that. Is that something you are knowledgeable about. If so, all the parts are there for a group of framers to make a huge difference for the industry. FramerInTraining has an awesome online sales system that he allows everyone to use. There are a lot of brilliant members here that have lots of good ideas. What do you think? Is that something you'd be up for?
LOL...I'm not the one crying about it. It's quite obvious who the insecure people are here. Unlike YOU, and some others here, I like to see people ELEVATED, try new things, and SUCCEED. Insecure little men like you would rather see people fail. When someone has the nerve, and fortitude to take on that much risk, and put themselves at risk of ridicule and negativity from people like YOU, I tend to applaud them and support them. Yes, I like to support people that would like to find better ways of serving people. People like you get off on negativity and hoping failure upon others. And then you have the nerve to tell me I'm the one crying about it LMFAO.... Get over it.
Ideas have no value without action. Reading forums, this industry is VERY resistant to change, and very much stuck on the old way of doing things. I get the sense that it would be like trying to herd cats, getting multiple businesses to team up to work together. I have a plan in place already to work towards.
Well I hope you will keep us updated on your plan as it unfolds. I like to hear about and try new and innovative things. Good luck to you.
Thank you Ed.
Don't be hysterical guy. Elevated in what? She offers the same big corporation mentality: doesn't matter that the product is garbage, put big money in marketing it and sell it cheap.
But it's still a garbage.
And by the way: can you make a frame? Did you ever make a frame yourself?
LMAO! I have absolutely nothing to prove to your insecurity.
The reason Framers never seem to be able to band together and implement a solid industry marketing plan is so evident in this post - way too much energy spent arguing and theorizing while ...
Framebridge and others are taking ACTION!
Come on, say it. You are not a framer and that's why you are defending her.
Sometimes I am just so glad for the free entertainment we get from The Grumble. I could have spent $100 going to some kind of "Entertainment Venue"* tonight, but instead I got a far better value just going home and surfing.
*Realistically, my cost would have been in the many hundreds, if not thousands, since I live in the Boondocks. I would have to drive at least two hours, and then stay overnight. But for a Full Experience I would need to first fly somewhere and then eat at a fancy restaurant and then stay overnight.''
I don't know why I'm going on and on. Just keep The Grumble alive in word and deed and I'm a happy camper. Not to say that when I'm in Vegas next month I won't take in a show or two, or rent some supercar for a jaunt in the desert.
I always make frames from hardwood myself, it's so easy. And fun. I never placed any order with you, maybe I should do it once or twice so we can get friendly and laugh together.
My moulder just arrived. By the way that could be the answer to keep the prices on frames down
by producing it yourself. That will also keep manufacturers in check so they don't feel superior to the
people who are actually supporting their business.
Wow you really have a need to prove yourself haha
This I would never deny.
How about you, are you one of those guys that gets happy when he receives an achievement award with a group? Here you go, participation award.
You forgot to attach the award!
I see some snobbery in this proffesion, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but .......... pushing some wood you have purchased through a moulder a framer does not make, to be a real frame you need to grow the timber and fell it yourself, one requires a cotton plantation so you can harvest the crop and produce mat board with your paper mill, when was the last time you made your own museum glass?
What you don't have the time to manufacturer glass? Lol you can't be a real framer then.
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