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The Great Rabbet Rip-Off

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by shayla, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Just designed two jobs with frames added to the backs of other frames as depth extenders. We're planning to rip the rabbets off the back frames somehow, then either glue or screw those on the backs of the front ones, so both the outside and inside walls are even. I'm planning to strip out the inside of the resulting frame, with mat or foam core that's flush to the sides. When he's tried using the jointer to rip down overly wide fillet backs to use as frame liners, the finishes wore the knives out way too fast. He's concerned with the finish on one of these frames doing the same. It's a Studio matte black, but it's got that clayish whatever that the black is made of. He's thought about running the moulding through the router, making a cut that goes most of the way through the lip, then chiseling the rest off by hand. But that seems kind of labor intensive.

    He just thought of putting a drum sander on the drill press with a fence and taking it off that way. Have you ever done this, and if so, how?
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  2. alacrity8

    alacrity8 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I've run frames through my Table Saw to make spacers before, but have not made stackers like this that I recall.
    I've never heard of a Drum Sander on a Drill Press, but I guess that it should work.
    A Table Saw seems easier.
  3. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I agree the table saw would be the best solution unless there is some unknown factor preventing it.

    A drum sander attachment on a drill press should work, but I can imagine it taking a few hours.
  4. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Table saw or band saw.
    :cool: Rick
  5. Warren Tucker

    Warren Tucker MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    A table saw would work but it'd be dangerous. How dangerous would depend on how small the moulding that you're ripping the lip off is. I'd put the moulding in my work bench vice and remove the lip with a sharp block plane. A band saw would be ok, too. I don't know who "he" is but I can say he's a lot braver than I am if he'll mill down fillet stock on a jointer. That's another job for a woodworker's vice and a block plane. I don't see how the glue joint is going to look worth a darn either. I'd be sure to paint the two faces black before joining them. Naturally they'll glue the moulding up before mitering the legs. Now if the bottom moulding is wider than the top there could be a small reveal to hide the joints.
  6. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I would saw it. Sanding compo will clog the paper up very quickly.

    If I'm sawing small sections I like to take a bit of time to knock up a guide by clamping a bit
    of wood to the saw bed and sometimes a piece over the top. Basically to cover the blade and
    allow you to shove a stick of wood in one end and pull it out the other while being impossible
    to get your fingers anywhere near the blade.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  7. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    A proper setup on a table saw would be safer than crossing the road. Even without a power feeder you could do it very safely on a table saw IMO.

    Place the moulding face down on the table, with the outside of the moulding against the fence. The blade only needs to be as high at the thickness of the lip - generally 1/4" or less. You would have to almost try to hurt yourself unless you had never used a power tool before. And that's assuming you're not using a featherboard or other hold-down/anti-kickback device. We would do this almost without thinking about it.

    Remember that in this particular application the face of the moulding getting the lip ripped off is not going to be seen, so it doesn't matter if the face get scratched, or if the area next to the rip gets chipped out.
    MarkPDX and j Paul like this.
  8. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    That would be my dear husband.
  9. Warren Tucker

    Warren Tucker MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    David, is the face flat?
  10. scottk

    scottk CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I do this quite often. Table saw works best as David described.
    I attach them with glue, make sure you're doing bare wood to bare wood and then weigh down for 1/2 hour. Afterwards I staple along the seam on the inside of the frame.
    shayla likes this.
  11. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Based on my understanding of what/how it's being used, I have to assume so.
  12. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If using a table saw be **** sure that he has a zero clearance plate for the blade. I almost lost my thumb one Xmas running moulding through the table saw ripping out the rabbet. Doesn't matter how smart or safety conscious you think you are that spinning blade doesn't care.

    Drum sander? Sounds like another health risk. Breathing in all that clay dust will do a number on his lungs and probably his skin wherever it lands on him. Fiberglass insulation and asbestos dust come to mind.

    Joined for the fillets? There was a backing paper cutter I got from united that I use for that purpose. It uses a used mat cutter blade and spaces it 1/8th of an inch from the edge. Either press down hard to cut through, run it over a couple of times or score and snap the fillet. Really easy and little to no dust or danger involved. United 2001 item number comes to mind, probably wrong :)

    The rabbet? I'd use the table saw. But with extra support of the zero clearance plate. And with full length of molding not chops. Painter's tape to protect the finish and count your fingers before and after each pass. The trip to the ER sucks.

    MATTHEW HALE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2


    - Great idea! I never use it for trimming dust covers, but I'm pretty sure we have one around here somewhere.
  14. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    You've never been wrong before; I don't see why you would be now. :D

    Appreciating all the notes here, and hopefully, it'll help others with the same question in the future. I would say what he did, but he should probably have the chance to say it himself. He's at his paying job now, so will have to wait until after work.

    This place is the best.

    Well, I wouldn't want to have to compare it to my grandma's peach pie, but it's still pretty great.
  15. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Come on now, I know you pay him.
  16. Dirk

    Dirk CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I checked with the bookkeeper and he/me confirmed her assertion.

    I did find an itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow polka dot four inch table saw at Harbor Freight for under fifty bucks. If the lip is much over 3/8" thick (9mm across the pond), I'm not sure it'll have the power to get through, but it seems ideal for this purpose. Might even try a fillet, someday when I'm not limited by better judgment. (That word should have an e after the g.)

    We'll see how carbide holds up when it encounters the junk they put on moulding, planer steel doesn't do well.

    Thanks for all the advice.
  17. DVieau2

    DVieau2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    Consider turning to craigslist for a used saw. There is no percentage in a cheapie.

    I sold my 10" craftsman for $100 when I purchased my 10" Ridged used for $400.

    I would rate a table saw as a must have for a frame shop. I can't even imagine operating with one.
  18. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Yay! He finally posted. I was trying hard not to say what he did.

    Bob Doyle, I like your backing paper cutter idea, but I bet it takes more strength than I've got. Now and then, I stand behind Dirk, hold my skinny little arms out in front of him and say, 'If you woke up one morning with these on and you had to use them for all your work, what would you do?' He claims it would traumatic. Then we compare my thumb to his pinky.

    I see you guys glue the front frame to its backer, but say it has to be bare wood touching bare wood. Do you invert the back frame so its finish faces the wall? We'd also thought about screwing them together from the back through to the front, but is there a reason that's not as good?
  19. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Here's what's in our joining area: Cassese Underpinner, Hoffman Jointer, two chop saws with a Mitre Master fence, (he McGuyvered that and changed some stuff around.) Combination belt/disc sander, Manual 12" disc sander, small jointer (for cutting wood), router table, 12" power disc sander he doesn't use much. We have a wee fillet chopper, too, but he prefers to use the saws and a little gizmo he saw at Vegas (Fillet Master?). Canvas stretcher is there, too, up on a shelf. He built a thing so that when it's needed, we can attach it to his Swiss Army (as called by Wife) work table. He's getting a bunch of clamps to help keep frames square.

    Anything not listed that you can't live without? (Just cutting/joining stuff...we have other equipment elsewhere).
  20. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It should be bare wood if using "wood glue", but there are other types that may be satisfactory gluing wood to finish. I would think that a polyurethane glues such as Gorilla Glue might work.

    There's no reason not to that I can think of. As long as the bottoms are smooth and free of finish you should get a good join that way using regular wood glue.

    That would be perfectly adequate. The possible advantage of gluing is that you have a continuous bond, which will ensure alignment of the edges over time (as long as you have them aligned when the glue sets, which could be a challenge).
    shayla likes this.
  21. Greg Fremstad

    Greg Fremstad MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Just use RabbetSpace from FrameTek.com. That's exactly why I made it. So fast and simple - easily removable too.
  22. Lafontsee

    Lafontsee CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Since you have a router and the face of the frame is flat, a flush-trim router bit might be just the right thing to take off the rabbet.

    David Waldmann likes this.
  23. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    For a quarter inch or something, ok. But if you need another inch or two, probably not.
  24. shopmonkey cpf

    shopmonkey cpf CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Definitely table saw. Easy peasy.
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