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Opinions Wanted The price for changing mat

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by NYJim, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. NYJim

    NYJim CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    My customer brought me a picture that I framed for him long time ago where he wants to change the mat from paper to custom fabric mat.
    As you know I would need to open the frame, remove an old mat , mount new fabric mat and put everything back together. The original price to frame the picture was about $500.
    Only the new mat will cost about $150 ( oversized mat ) plus labor. etc Do you think it's reasonable to price "change the mat " operation to the half of the original price?
    Thank you
     
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  2. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I normally would charge for the new mat, one half fitting charge for taking apart and an oversize fitting charge. That said, if it was something I framed for them I'd likely wave the unfit charge.
     
  3. Terry Hart cpf

    Terry Hart cpf SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Same as Dave.
     
  4. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ditto - same as Dave & Terry
     
  5. i-FRAMER

    i-FRAMER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    We have a disassemble charge, then several assembly charges for existing artwork based on wether it has glass or not.
    One charge is just a clean and refresh, where we literally pull it apart, add fumigation if required, then clean and reassemble.
     
  6. njw1224

    njw1224 CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    charge for the new mat, plus new fitting/cleaning, and any additional for disassembly and new wire, backing, etc. Don't undersell the time this will take you unless this is a regular customer who brings you lots of work. You said you framed it "a long time ago". Have you done work for this customer since then? If not, then discounts aren't applicable. You only have time to do so many jobs in a day, and the time involved in each job should be fairly charged for.
     
    David Waldmann and Dave like this.
  7. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    $150 seems a bit excessive, but that's just an opinion.
     
  8. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    For an oversize custom fabric mat?
     
  9. JWB9999999

    JWB9999999 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Sounds fair to me.
     
  10. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Low. I just ran the numbers using B8463L and #411 cotton in a finished size of 40"X 48" with an "Owner's Frame" surcharge, and standard fitting. The good, longtime client charge is about $200.00.
    It would probably be higher because I would do my best to talk them into an 8-ply base mat. So $240.00 for the good-ole-boy pricing.
    The fact that you framed it originally is immaterial to the cost of refurbishing. You also forgot to throw in the amount of time passing since it was framed (a long time ago is more for me than it is for you). You can't use an original frame cost for justification of anything without bringing the cost up to current rates. Would the $500 original frame job not cost considerably more now?
     
    Jim Miller likes this.
  11. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I think I would approach this exactly like I would any other job.

    1. What would I charge "Joe on the street".
    2. Would I offer this particular customer a discount (for any/all reasons).
    3. Subtract any discounts from (2) against (1) and quote a price.

    FWIW I can't imagine offering any customer a 50% discount unless they supplied the materials (BTW that's what we do).
     
    Jim Miller and Grey Owl like this.
  12. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Oops, didn't realize it was a fabric.
     
  13. GreyDrakkon

    GreyDrakkon MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    We charge less for refitting our own stuff, since we know that it won't be a huge pain to take apart. No "surprises" like 10,000 brad nails under the dust cover, or brittle masking tape leaving powder everywhere.
     
  14. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I would charge normal price but waive the unfit charge when it is work I have done. 150 sounds quite low to me too, for oversized fabric mat plus labor for oversized job
     
    Jim Miller and FramerInTraining like this.
  15. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Similar question:
    I have a customer who is a really young guy (20's) and we framed a TON of movie posters for him. Really unique ones. I didn't balk at $600 - $900 per frame. And we did LOTS of these for him. Now he's been "trading" posters online, and wants us to take a poster out, swap it for another in his collection which might fit, so he can ship the other one out. I told him I'm glad to do it, but now it looks like it might be a regular thing. And each of these is around 30x40 to 32x45. He's sunk a lot of money into these, and stopped about a year ago, but I'm guessing my framer takes 30 minutes doing the swap, and making sure dust isn't in there. What would you do/charge?
     
  16. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    1/2 hour shop time which for me right now is $ 60.00 per hour.
     
  17. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Chris, I would discuss this with the customer. Tell him you will do the first x amount for free but after that you will have to charge for time.
     
  18. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    That's where I left it with him. We did 2 and he said he'll have more coming. I think Dave is probably about right. Its just fair.
     
    Ylva likes this.
  19. John Ranes II CPF GCF

    John Ranes II CPF GCF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Totally concur with this statement. We would charge the cost of the new mat plus our standard Misc Supply Charge (Hardware etc.) plus we have a Re-ft Customers Frame charge built into our POS.... as refitting an existing frame is typically more labor intensive than fitting a new frame.

    John
     
  20. framerfrog

    framerfrog Grumbler

    We charge a second fitting fee (per united inch) for disassembly as for assembly. However, disassembly often takes more time/effort because of unseen surprises.
     
  21. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have multiple fitting categories built in to my POS. From least to most: Metal, Simple Wood, Wood (Normal fit in new frame), A Fit, B Fit, C Fit.
    A, B, and C are tiered levels above a normal fit as thing get more time or materials intensive. I also have a choice of Oversize Fit, which accounts for the extra time and materials needed once things become large, and includes making a hanging template out of recycled glass box or FC box cardboard, and which also serves to protect the glass on the trip home.
    :cool: Rick
     
  22. Donald

    Donald Grumbler

    Think about how often you go to the same store or business over and over. How many actually give you a discount. I have 3 cars and get my oil changed quite frequently. Harsh driving conditions. I get no discounts even though I'm a repeat customer. I keep going back because of the service.
     
  23. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Similarly, Jay Goltz once stated in his pricing class that the barber didn't give him a discount because he had three boys.
    :cool: Rick
     
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  24. GUMBY GCF

    GUMBY GCF SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Dave you need to raise your hourly rate that was the rate 10 years ago... I know you. You deserve a raise..

    Since he was a good customer I would charge the per minute shop rate. Ours is $1.90 minute minimum of 30 min.

    If New customer or non frequent we charge a fit and refit charge which is calculated by size and complexity.
    Has worked for 44 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
    Jim Miller likes this.
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