• WELCOME Grumblers
    Backup is now done at 3PM EDT. You may find the server down for up to two minutes at that time.

The Secret Shopper Came Today

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Yes, I should have said glazing sales volume and dollars.

I will admit that even more than the increased price and profitability of the work order I desire to sell MG glass because it makes me look that much better. MG glazing shows off the quality and good design of my work better and puts forth the feature of the show ...the actual piece being framed ...so much better.

A new car sitting in a car lot looks much more attractive after it has been freshly polished and the windows washed no matter how sexy a design it has.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think this is another example where we wish to "institualize" a philosophy

I am pretty certain that no one suggests to never sell MG; why must we always insist upon setting these discussions in an "either/or" proposition

Can not we agree upon a right place/right time mentality for premium product?

Can you imagine calling up for air travel and having the reservation clerk making you sit through First Class options

Or the hotel clerk only extolling the penthouse

Or the car rental place steering you into the Cadillac when the Taurus will do fine

Or the butcher "selling" you on a Prime cut when you just need 2lbs of ground beef

We all hate it when we get "upselling", don't we?

I think it is not much different

Look, I'm a "First Class" kind of guy and often do get "traded up". but, there is a noticeable difference in how the really good professionals do it and how the not-so-good ones do it

This plan is pretty distinguishable; but from their perspective, it appears to be yielding converts. I think we need to be careful about assumptions on the consumer side

Now just as soon as someone tells me they are peddling30-40 lites a week....
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...I think this is another example where we wish to "institualize" a philosophy ...

I totally agree with your statements, Bob.



Institutionalizing a philosophy of educating the customer to the function and qualities of different glazing is a win-win-win situation.

- The customer is generally happier with the finished product.

- The framed artwork or object is better presented and preserved a bit better.

- The framer's craftsmanship and design abilities are better portrayed and he or she has better profitability.


:)



...I think we need to be careful about assumptions on the consumer side....

Assuming the customer is not willing to use the best possible materials is a lose-lose-lose situation.

- A disservice has been done the customer when they are not offered the best possible options for framing their artwork or object and don't have the opportunity for the WOW factor for something they treasure enough to custom frame.

- The artwork or object is not reflected in its best light.

- The framer's product and craftsmanship isn't portrayed as well as it could be and the profitability of the framer doesn't realize its full potential.

:shrug:


I cannot think of a single instance where glazing is used that either Museum Glass or Optium Acrylic would not be a welcome enhancement. Price is the only factor involved and to assume that our customers won't spend the money for the better glazing is shooting yourself in the foot and not to their benefit either.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Dave-I agree with your premise, but might disagree with the execution

That airline reservation clerk woul b doing you disservice by not informing you of all the benefits of First Class travel, wouldn't they?

The traveler would certainly be happier, wouldn't they

The travel experience is better presented in a First Class setting

The Airline is truly better suited to portray itself more favorably

So,not buying a First Class ticket is really a lose-lose situation

A disservice is done by not providing the best alternative

Travel is not presented in the best light

And, Profitability of the airlines is not maximized

Dave, we can make the same arguments by inserting whatever premium product you wish, but there is a fundamental flaw when we leave the consumer out of the equation. The airlines have it figured out by providing a percentage of seats in the First Class cabin vs Coach

Sure, they offer it and consumers like me do pay that difference

But, as an airline, they understand the segments involved and Market accordingly

This is a Premium product-Market it accordingly

Can you imagine if Delta made the first 20 rows First Class and priced accordingly

How much of their clientele would just go to another carrier
 

Paul N

In Corner
Bob:

Good logic, but I look at it this way:

When you go to buy a Lexus (or a whatever), the car they show you is ALWAYS fully loaded, from leather to GPS to things not everybody would want, but yet, they want to show the best they can offer.

Then they show the stripped down version, if somebody doesn't want all the extras.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Well, I'm proud to offer Tru Vue Premium Clear Glass, for those customers that want to save some money on their framing jobs. Our default glazing is Conservation Clear, but we always stock Premium Clear.

You reading that, consumers? I've got something you can't get at the big box stores. My glass is cheaper than theirs!!
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Bob, about 3 months ago I wanted to take the family to Cumberland Falls for the weekend. I called the state park and asked for reservations. They said, "For this weekend we have a single cabin with a kitchenette, 3 bedrooms and living room with private parking and blah blah blah for $475 a night. Would you like to book that now."

Shocked thinking I would have to find other plans I gasped, "Is that all you have?"

We ended up staying in the lodge for $90 a night. You have no idea how bad this sales tactic pi**ed me off!!!!!!
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think you can't substitute any premium product in this equation.

Most people are aware of First Class seats and know they are at a premium.

Most custom framing customers are not aware of how glazing can effect the total package. By educating them to their options we are providing choices that they may be unaware of.

The airline ticket seller would be wise to ask the traveler: "Would that be First Class or Coach?" I bet their percentage of First Class sales would increase to some degree.

I agree that when you book accommodations it would be unwise and pushy for the booking agent to only quote luxury suites without providing all the options.

When I sell glazing I present all the options and educate the uninformed consumer to the benefits associated with each one. It is then their informed choice to decide what they would like to use.

Granted ...I don't present MG to someone coming in with a poster and saying they want it to be done as inexpensively as possible. I will ask them about lighting, etc and present the option of using a UV filtering glazing and quote them both ways though.

Being pushy in sales is totally different than offering options.

I still say that if you are waiting for a customer to ask for MG you'll sell very little of the product. I know ...that's how I use to handle glazing sales too. I never sold it.

To each his own.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Paul-I agree completely and that premise is that the Lexus client had an expectation of quality and price

Now, make that argument for our clientele

If, you do have a Lexus-status shop, then this thread is of no value. You do it already, your customer know what to expect

Too many of us feel we want that Lexus pricing, but don't create that Lexus ambience

My complaint is that this type of "Marketing" is directed incorrectly. When TV creates the "demand" for this level of glazing and consumers do come in consistently for it, then I will agree

They are asking us to do what Lexus, USA is doing for their dealerships. It's all on our backs and the payoff (their expense)is the potential of a $75 coupon?

I said before, it' a brilliant campaign, done on the cheap

If they spent as much time and effort convincing consumers on the value of this product (like Lexus does)then we may have a deal
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
I deal with this by telling the customer that I will offer them two design and price options at the get-go. Or, when I price the order, I tell them to look at the MG samples and I will price both ways. Or, after I grab a fabric sample, I'll assure them that we will look at regular matting options as well. Often the fabric just gets them hooked. We sell a lot of precovered scrap pieces of Bainbridge/Crescent at rag mat prices. They love this and it gets them hooked. Kind of like the MG cheaper at smaller prices. Haven't had time to adjust those MG prices but we still plan to take a hard loook at them.

People often come o us with the perception that we will be cheap because of the DIY option so we have to be careful in the way we upgrade. This is easy for me, but trainig my staff to veer towards to 8 play mats, fabric, MG, is another story. Some things don't need fabric--the black and white photo, for instance. but it will look fabulous with a nice crisp 8 ply rag mat.

My theory is to show the expensive stuff when appropriate (the key word), but assure them that I am not pressuring them by telling them there are pricing options. Once they see the lovely 8 ply or fabric or MG, then they often just have to have it. Or not. But if not, they don't feel bad because we make them feel good about whatever they eventually choose.

When people pick up work we oten gather round and oooh and aah at the finished piece. This is genuine. Its sometimes like a party with the custoer grinning from ear to ear.

Gotta start my day in earnest now!
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I just had someone return to upgrade their glass not two weeks after he picked it up. didn't want to spend the $ at first, but remembered how it looked - and hated the glare he got.

85% of my glass sold is AR or musuem....the gallery is almost all hung with AR of musuem glass too. these sell well, as they see it "everywhere".
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Paul-I agree completely and that premise is that the Lexus client had an expectation of quality and price

Now, make that argument for our clientele

If, you do have a Lexus-status shop, then this thread is of no value. You do it already, your customer know what to expect

Too many of us feel we want that Lexus pricing, but don't create that Lexus ambience

My complaint is that this type of "Marketing" is directed incorrectly. When TV creates the "demand" for this level of glazing and consumers do come in consistently for it, then I will agree

They are asking us to do what Lexus, USA is doing for their dealerships. It's all on our backs and the payoff (their expense)is the potential of a $75 coupon?

I said before, it' a brilliant campaign, done on the cheap

We spend so much time arguing amongst ourselves when effort needs to be directed at creating brand awareness for the consumer. Just like the client that drove onto the lot to buy a Lexus, the dealership created the "why" to buy a Lexus from him; not why to buy a Lexus

As I said, Brilliant on the cheap
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...My complaint is that this type of "Marketing" is directed incorrectly. When TV creates the "demand" for this level of glazing and consumers do come in consistently for it, then I will agree...
I said before, it' a brilliant campaign, done on the cheap ...
It is a brilliant campaign. Tru Vue realizes that unless the designer in each individual shop educates consumers to the benefits of superior glazing then there will be little demand for the product.

Wars are fought on the front lines.

Direct to consumer advertising is expensive and somewhat impractical when the product's virtues have to be seen to be appreciated. Some advertising to increase awareness makes sense, but unless the individual frame shop sees the benefits of selling this product it ain't gonna happen.

Anyone complaining about the promotion doesn't have to participate. In fact you have to actively register for it.

Where's the beef?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
It is a brilliant campaign. Tru Vue realizes that unless the designer in each individual shop educates consumers to the benefits of superior glazing then there will be little demand for the product.

Wars are fought on the front lines.

Direct to consumer advertising is expensive and somewhat impractical when the product's virtues have to be seen to be appreciated.
It works like network marketing does! The advertisng group must have gone out for a round of drinks after conceiving this one.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...Can you imagine calling up for air travel and having the reservation clerk making you sit through First Class options

Or the hotel clerk only extolling the penthouse

Or the car rental place steering you into the Cadillac when the Taurus will do fine

Or the butcher "selling" you on a Prime cut when you just need 2lbs of ground beef

We all hate it when we get "upselling", don't we?
....
These are products and services with which we are familiar. Even if we've never seen the penthouse, we know whether or not the cheapest room in the place would serve our purpose. We know the difference between a prime steak and burger beef.

I would agree with you Bob, in these cases upselling would not be welcome. I don't need that information, and I would not apprciate a long, drawn-out presentation. I wouldn't mind a quick reminder of availability and a suggestion to consider, though.

But framing is not like that. Most of our customers know nothing about picture framing. They don't know what their options are. They don't know the differences among the choices of quality, style, price, or value...unless we inform them.

Maybe upselling is the wrong term to describe what we do. We call it that because it results in customers buying better framing, but it's not like we're just trying to talk them into buying something they know they don't want or need. The truth is, often as not, they don't know what they want or need. It's our job to help them make informed decisions -- but not to shove anything down their throats.
 

Wendy

Grumbler in Training
It's been a long week and I'm seriously cranky, so I know that is coloring my attitude about this campaign, but I lost a lot of enthusiasm for MG when I lost two customers to a craft chain when I wouldn't match their price on it. They are selling a premium product for just about my cost and I simply can't compete on that product. I actually feel guilty charging my clients for it when I know they can get it for so much less just a few blocks away. I know this has been discussed in the past, but I'm open to suggestions. Just be gentle please :)

Wendy and Larry@The Frame Works
 

Paul N

In Corner
Well Wendy, it goes like this:

It seems we can get the good stuff (aka MG) at a decent price when Jupiter is hit by exactly 213 1/2 mauve asteroids on February 29th every 141th year; otherwise the BBs get the same stuff (albeit named conveniently differently - but quite often sold as MG..) at a great price any day except on those days when the sun shines on the blue planet

Quite simple actually.

PS: I forgot, yes, the BBs get the 2891.38976568878 trillion lites of rejects from the process used to make real MG. Just to keep it legal and not confuse the happy Grumblers.
 

Murf

Grumbler
Shopper came in Today!

Quickest $75 we've made!

The shopper and her 5 year old daughter were waiting in our lobby when we opened this morning at 10 am.

She said she heard about us on the net. A little idle chit chat as I used Intergrated Framer to give her a quick mock-up (12x18 field of sunflowers picture).

I then told her that we needed to select a glazing option and showed her to our glazing POS display. Offered her the museum glass and wa-lah.

"Congratulations, I'm a secret shopper and you just won $75!"

She was walking out the door by 10:15!! So even though I didn't get the sale like some were writing about earlier.....let's see....15 mins....$75....I sure won't complain about the $5 per min rate. Hate to admit it, but it was the most productive ($ return/time) time this week! :cool:
 

Natalya Murphy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
We sell a fair amount of Museum Glass, I guess what rubs me the wrong way is the "secret shopper" concept. Who designated TV to glass police?
It's my understanding that you need to actually sign up for the secret shopper challenge if you want them to come to your store. If you don't sign up, you don't need to worry about them coming in.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Guy comes in with a signed 49ers jersey -- wants a black mat, black frame for it, very simple. Priced with conservation clear, it's $341. Priced with museum glass, it's $490. With tax, that would put him over $500, he made a point of noting. You'd think that if the museum glass is too much, he'd just go with the conservation glass, right?

Nope, has to think about it. Buh bye.

So it seems that offering Museum Glass has actually cost me a sale. Can I have my $75 now?
 

Mary M

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Has anyone else noticed an increase in customer awareness with regard to Museum Glass this past week? The reason I'm asking is because I've had five people actually ask if I keep it in stock-and one lady actually requested it yesterday. Of course, my mind is jumping all over the place thinking I've got the TV secret shopper in my shop-but it hasn't happened yet.

I haven't kept a daily count, but I feel certain that about 75% of my new customers have shopped at other places before comign to me. I KNOW most have gone to Michael's. Even the regular customers do when they offer their coupons. What I think is happening is that TV is getting the frame shops to offer their customers the MG more often, and in so doing, making the average consumer more aware of it as well. Their program is working beautifully, at least as far as my shop is concerned.

I'm just waiting to earn my $75 prize--"Will you have Museum Glass with those fries???"
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Guy comes in with a signed 49ers jersey -- wants a black mat, black frame for it, very simple. Priced with conservation clear, it's $341. Priced with museum glass, it's $490. With tax, that would put him over $500, he made a point of noting. You'd think that if the museum glass is too much, he'd just go with the conservation glass, right?

Nope, has to think about it. Buh bye.

So it seems that offering Museum Glass has actually cost me a sale. Can I have my $75 now?
If you offered both prices, how could that have lost you the sale?
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Maybe upselling is the wrong term to describe what we do. We call it that because it results in customers buying better framing, but it's not like we're just trying to talk them into buying something they know they don't want or need. The truth is, often as not, they don't know what they want or need. It's our job to help them make informed decisions -- but not to shove anything down their throats.
Bingo. And this is so easy. I had a woman in today working with Lisa, one of my framers. Two Japanese style giclees. On the table were rag mats, and nice frames. I quietly placed a Frank's silk mat sample down next to one of them, and the woman said "Ahhh." and even more quietly suggested to Lisa, "Wouldn't that other one look great with a debossed line or V groove around it?" The woman was, by this time, leaning over to hear what I suggested. It's not about upselling; it's about offering choices and showing what the customer may not even be aware of. Our customer went with both "upgrades."
 

FramerDave

PFG, Picture Framing God
One more time...

I've said it already, but I think it bears repeating. It's not about $75. The $75 is an incentive to encourage framers to suggest (not require, as some think) Museum Glass to their customers. It's great that you got $75 for 15 minutes, but it's even better when you sell it to more customers and make more money. What am I missing?

TruVue as framing police? Give me a break. Who else do you suppose is going to encourage us to sell it? Honestly.


Guy comes in with a signed 49ers jersey -- wants a black mat, black frame for it, very simple. Priced with conservation clear, it's $341. Priced with museum glass, it's $490. With tax, that would put him over $500, he made a point of noting. You'd think that if the museum glass is too much, he'd just go with the conservation glass, right?

Nope, has to think about it. Buh bye.

So it seems that offering Museum Glass has actually cost me a sale. Can I have my $75 now?
It would bet you a drink or three that the guy would have balked at the $341 if you had never even mentioned Museum Glass. He probably would have balked at $250. That arbitrary $500 limit just gave him an excuse not to do it. And don't forget the two times this week that you did sell the stuff with little effort.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
If you offered both prices, how could that have lost you the sale?
Because he walked out with the jersey and his money, and didn't place an order. He seemed to want the Museum Glass, but had to "think about" whether to go ahead.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
It would bet you a drink or three that the guy would have balked at the $341 if you had never even mentioned Museum Glass. He probably would have balked at $250. That arbitrary $500 limit just gave him an excuse not to do it. And don't forget the two times this week that you did sell the stuff with little effort.
Well, you know I'd buy you a drink (not three, I'm cheap) anyway, but you're probably right. I keep hearing stories about all the jerseys everyone is framing, but most of the people I've encountered balk at even a baseline price of $300 to frame one of the things.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hey Paul-You will probablt start getting posts that start "Just a minute ago someone came in with a jersey and I showed them a closed corner frame with Museum Glass for $1400 and he thanked me, yada yada, yada.

We don't do as many jerseys as most folks say (only over 300 at last count this year), but a typical job runs about $250-$350.

I know most will tell me about that $1400 job "that just came in", but we do see price sensitivity. Most of our jersey sales start with a statement that goes "Just went to a frame shop that wanted $700 to frame this..."
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
I can do one in that price range of $250 to $350, easily. His football jersey would have come right in there with a single black mat, black frame, conservation glass. But consumers here seem to be under the impression they can get it done for about $100 to $150. I could probably do that, too, but the jersey will be folded up really small.
 

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
We don't do as many jerseys as most folks say (only over 300 at last count this year), but a typical job runs about $250-$350.

Most of our jersey sales start with a statement that goes "Just went to a frame shop that wanted $700 to frame this..."
Hey Bob, Most of us would give our eye teeth to get 300 jersey sales a year or better. If these aren't all personal contacts, or if you aren'
t a big team donor :) this would be a great class--"How to bring sports team sales in the door."

I too have heard the "I just went to another shop and it was $700." But then we have the perception of being a bit of a discount shop on the lower end, and mid on the high end.

Terrible sales day today in this gorgeous weather. Today's sales went something like this--woman brought in her own mat for us to cut, woman brought in 4 RM from Michaels and needed mats, man wanted his mounted poster trimmed down, 2 Telegraph street artists came in wanting thier usual "deal" for display materials, and our guy who sells at his union hall in SF and buys his materials from Orr and who knows where came for mat cutting and frame joining. Must be the 3 day weekend and everyone is away or out watching the Blue Angels. I'd like to be sitting on my favorite spot on Angel Island tomorrow and watching them fly over!

Instead we're busy getting custom done and working on small Xmas pieces.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
...I lost a lot of enthusiasm for MG when I lost two customers to a craft chain when I wouldn't match their price on it. They are selling a premium product for just about my cost and I simply can't compete on that product....
An awful lot of framers lose business to Michaels because they "...wouldn't match their price". Some of us have found ways to counteract their price-is-everything marketing strategy. I hope you will participate here and learn how to do the same thing, too.

It may be true that you "can't compete on that product", but it is not true that "They are selling a premium product for just about my cost". I'll say it again: Michaels' cheapest price in my market for 20x24 Masterpiece glass was $57.11, discounted 50% last week. Any USA framer can buy Museum Glass for less than half of that price from any Tru-Vue distributor.

Check this recent thread for more on that: http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=27319&page=22
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Paul, This is one of those instances where I probably would've knocked my price down a bit on the MG jersey box and kept the price under that $ 500.00 figure as discussed in other threads. May not have made a difference and you are right, may have just been an excuse and you may have very well provided too many choices and confused the sale.

Justification for lowering the MG price? It would make the MG box sale more palatable and if you got it you'd not only have a more profitable job than the CC box, but you would be sending out of your shop a job that looked absolutely amazing and 100% better than the CC box job.

Hopefully he's just needing to sort out what he wants and will be back ...stranger things have happened and I wouldn't be surprised. Possibly a call back to him would be in order ...couldn't hurt anything, could it?

:kaffeetrinker_2:
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
I told him I was giving him 30% off on the MG.

I'd call him back but I didn't get his name or number.

And I think he was just jerking my chain. He came in because he received my direct mail postcard, with a coupon offering 50% off a limited selection of mouldings. Explicitly stated on the postcard. And when I told him the 50% off didn't apply to the entire store, and that we didn't have shadowbox mouldings in that selection, he started chortling about how I was suddenly backing away from the offer...as if he had never ever been in a store where some items are on sale and other items are not on sale.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I told him I was giving him 30% off on the MG.
Uh-Oh. That might not have been the best tactic. A mass marketer might have told him he'd get 50% off their similar glass products. So, perhaps in his mind, the mass marketer's price would be 20% better.

Consumers ought to be comparing net prices in dollars, not discount percentages. I avoid giving percentage discounts on anything anymore, in order to keep customers from comparing discounts, which never was a smart thing for them to do. Mass marketers rely on them comparing misleading (some would say deceptive) discount percentages.
 

TGFU

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Consumers ought to be comparing net prices in dollars, not discount percentages. I avoid giving percentage discounts on anything anymore, in order to keep customers from comparing discounts, which never was a smart thing for them to do. Mass marketers rely on them comparing misleading (some would say deceptive) discount percentages.
Jim (and others), What dollar discounts are you successful at advertising and giving? We've tried both dollar amount and percentages, and percentages seem to be giving us a better ROI. When we try dollar amounts, we usually loose our butts on at least a few pieces where the customer wants the cheapest frame in the store and can't be 'sold up'.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I'll throw out that a "high end" framer ought not to offer any price off promotions.
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
When we try dollar amounts, we usually loose our butts on at least a few pieces where the customer wants the cheapest frame in the store and can't be 'sold up'.

Take a look at the Big Boys, when they offer a Dollar Off amount it usually (always) is tied into a certain dollar amount spent.
IE, $25.00 Off any ......$100.00 or more, etc. A dollar amount such as that, yields better than a fixed %off anyway, because most orders are more than the bottom limit.

If you just offer $25.00 Off with no bottom limit, someone is always going to want what they can get for almost free.

The only time I have ever sent a dollar amount off with out a bottom limit, has been to good/repeat customers, and then it is no problem because they know/expect what they are going to pay.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
I'll throw out that a "high end" framer ought not to offer any price off promotions.
A high end framer ought to make some money, too. More than $21/hour, at the least.
 

Wendy

Grumbler in Training
Jim Miller; said:
An awful lot of framers lose business to Michaels because they "...wouldn't match their price". Some of us have found ways to counteract their price-is-everything marketing strategy. I hope you will participate here and learn how to do the same thing, too.

It may be true that you "can't compete on that product", but it is not true that "They are selling a premium product for just about my cost". I'll say it again: Michaels' cheapest price in my market for 20x24 Masterpiece glass was $57.11, discounted 50% last week. Any USA framer can buy Museum Glass for less than half of that price from any Tru-Vue distributor.

Check this recent thread for more on that: http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=27319&page=22
Jim, I don't know about your market, but what I stated about mine is true. I got a quote from our local craft chain, I crunched all the numbers, and they are selling for slightly above my cost. I simply cannot compete at that level.

And while I appreciate your invitation to participate here to learn more, perhaps if you weren't quite so arrogant in your replies, people would feel more comfortable posting. This is a wonderful resource not only for novice framers, but for those of us who have been in the business for some time and actually do know a thing or two. Rant off.

Wendy
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Wendy! I don't think Jim has ever been arrogant. He is extremely generous in sharing his knowledge and views but has never spoken down to anyone on this forum.

Re-read whatever post caused you to feel this way.

The quote you put in your post has no hint of arrogance.
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
Jim, I don't know about your market, but what I stated about mine is true. I got a quote from our local craft chain, I crunched all the numbers, and they are selling for slightly above my cost. I simply cannot compete at that level.
Wendy

Wendy, let me assume that you can buy MG from LJ at the 5 box price (which isn't hard to do)

Take the price for GMX32x40
  • divide by 6 for the price of 1 lite
  • there is 1280 s.i. per lite
  • divide the cost per lite by 1280
  • that is your cost per s.i.
  • You can get two 2024's / 4 8x10's per lite
  • If you take your cost per s.i. and multiply 480 you will arrive at your cost for a 20x24
that cost is less than 1/2 of what Jim stated was the average BB price for glass in his area. Now you need to sell the other 20x24 and the four 8x10's.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Well ...nice way to start the day ...I'm a winner!

Secret Shopper came in with a print ...took all of 10 minutes.

I have to admit that somehow in the back of my mind I thought this could be the secret shopper ...don't ask me how I guessed. I went through my short dog and pony show about glazing after picking out an oak frame and double mat and priced it out with both MG and CC for her.

She then said "Congratulations! You're a winner!" and handed me my certificate.

Cool.
 

David N Waldmann

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'll throw out that a "high end" framer ought not to offer any price off promotions.
To take the car analogy a bit further (maybe that was a different thread, but anyways...), a high end framer not only should never offer any discounts, but they ought to add a premium to those high-end items that are in demand....
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
As a purchaser of high end cars, may I say that there are "negotiations a'plenty"

Many times, premiums add-on's are "throw in's" to close the deal

Not that any other industry's practices have any relevance to ours, of course
 

brian..k

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I didn't bother reading this whole thread as it got old pretty quick but I was just wondering if these "secret shoppers" had any input beyond "congratulations!"? Did they offer any thoughts about your sales pitch for the product or did they just give you your $75 and leave?
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
TV hired secret shoppers all over the country. You are right ...they are not associated with TV other than they work for firms that TV contracted to do the leg work.

I had an inkling "Pam" was the secret shopper when I presented the MG option and she immediately said she'd take it without even asking how much more it would be.

She did have me give her two printed quotes ...probably as proof that my shop did suggest the MG option. Once she had those in hand she congratulated me and was out the door fairly quickly.
 

Frame Maker SA

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Im a winner! Got my secret shopper today. She had a photo, picked out a frame and mat then we started talking glass. After I discussed glass options she said "Ok, dont get mad, I am actually here to see if you would offer museum glass" Apparently a previous shop owner got really upset with her. I guess because he didnt win, and he didnt get the order.

Since I knew about this contest I have been offering museum glass to all my customers that were not my "regulars". Although I must say under normal circumstances I probablly would not have showed the museum glass for this particullar photo as it was just a copy on paper, and she had already picked out a plain black frame and a single mat.

Plus, she said she has a sister thats looking for a frame shop, and took a card for her.
 

Barnett

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I won yesterday. A woman comes in and asks about having her husbands football jersey framed. We discuss framing options and after we walked over to my MG displays to discuss using MG she whips out a Winner Certificate. Easiest 75 bucks I ever made.
Bart
 

DVieau2

PFG, Picture Framing God
Our visit happened yesterday.

Tim, our part time college student, gets the money.

Thanks Tru Vue.

Doug
 
Sponsor Wanted
Top