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TK lost his suit against gallery owners!!

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by Mike LeCompte CPF, Feb 27, 2006.

  1. Mike LeCompte CPF

    Mike LeCompte CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Anyone read where Kinkade lost his lawsuit against gallery owners who were suing him?

    I saw it in yesterday's paper; can maybe provide link if no one else read this--buyt was hoping maybe someone had more info than I have
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  2. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  3. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  4. smitten

    smitten CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

  5. danny boy

    danny boy PFG, Picture Framing God

    GIGO ???
  6. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    "garbage in...garbage out"
  7. Handy

    Handy MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    oooooohhhhhhhhh - I've been wondering why people here didn't seem to care for TK very much.

    Now I get it........
  8. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Can someone summarize in a sentence or two why grumblers hate Kinkade?
  9. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    His toilet paper chafes.
  10. Elaine

    Elaine SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The Prostitute of Light
  11. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    He uses God as a marketing gimmick for an unsuspecting gullible segment of the population who truly think they are investing in something of value.

    Apparently he used the same marketing tool on unsuspecting gullible people who invested in his gallery's.

    Quote from above article:

    Media Arts and Barnett also relied on religion ``to instill a special relationship of trust surrounding the investment,'' the ruling said. ``Terms such as `partner,' `trust,' `Christian,' and `God' and many other direct and also oblique references to a higher calling were made.''
  12. Roxanne Langley

    Roxanne Langley CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Funny story, you guys will probally appreciate this.

    About 8 years or so ago there was a DTW in the mall where I live. When the new JC Penneys opened they had commissioned a Texas artist for a painting and he and his gallery manager was here for the grand opening. When speaking with this manager a TK gallery had just opened a few weeks earlier at a Ft Worth mall directly across from the DTW there (which was of course a dealer). On the morning of the grand opening the owner of the DTW franchise plastered their front windows with signage that read "All TK 50% off." He figured so what if he lost his dealership, he would at least recover his investment.

    Not that I wish anyone ill harm but, As the old saying goes, what goes around comes around.

  13. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    Replaced customer's TK print's broken glass. Sticker says "This genuine TK print is framed archivally for the protection of your investment" (a hefty one!) Found corrugated cardboard, masking tape and ATG tape, and staples through the mat. More than once.
    Then, the ad for TK toilet paper. Last straw.
    That 'nuff?

    BILLIE BOB True Grumbler

    Roxanne, I use to love hearing that story at the deck conventions
  15. Mark Mark

    Mark Mark Grumbler in Training

  16. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Reminds me of an old song about a pope waging war:

    "let the women wail and weep,
    burn the village,
    but shear the sheep..."
  17. jeff_nobles

    jeff_nobles Grumbler

    I agree totally on TK but with Bev it was greed big time by Greenwich. Yea Bev agreed to the large numbered edition but the publisher shares a lot of blame.
    About 10 years ago TK put out a call for artists. Claiming he wanted to market 10 artists. There was quite a lengthy process to get to the final 100 I believe it was. I recieved one of the super fancy invitations to submit a portfolio. The hook was then revieled that the artist had to be of high moral fiber (which would have probably disqualified me) and had to basicly be a missionary through thier art. I respectfully declined because my belief that religious beliefs are personal.
    It does seem to me though there is a disconnect between his beliefs and business practices
  18. JohnR

    JohnR MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Some people just don’t learn. Why dump so much money into a hot trend that is likely to pass in a couple years? Remember the hot wildlife print market? Remember Terry Redlin? Many publishers made you purchase so many prints to retain a dealership. Nearly all the gallery/frameshops in my area won’t touch prints marketed this way anymore.

    These people who put up $$ and put up with ridiculous policies were getting wagged by the tail. Don’t get sucked in to the next big trend if there is a ridiculous price of admission.
  19. Maryann

    Maryann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I would have anything that sells well that's legal! Why shoot yourself in the foot (or wallet)?

    We did try Kindade but it was a dismal failure. Surprised me. Recouped our investment with a big sale and got out.
  20. gemsmom

    gemsmom SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    When I was in the local mall a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the Kincade gallery had closed. Maybe the TK bubble has burst.
  21. Framar

    Framar SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ha ha! TK reduced to TP! LOL!

    Whether you call this Karma or the Golden Rule - what goes around does indeed come around.

    BILL WARD SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    tk near here was having problems(volume vs pricing) about 1.5 yrs ago...think they're STILL in business....I was sortof pulling for someone to be able to go get tk over the fact that he bled liscensees(sp?) sooooo dearly , then went into direct competition with them(at a MUCH reduced $$$).....just has rubbed me the wrong way since it started.
    I'm still in awe that those places can actually sell the gaudy monstrosities--4-5 stacked frames, and people so gladly bought them!!! I had to construct a 'frame-hide' for one guy---just couldnt stand to see it sticking out from the wall 6-10"......but also wouldnt hold still for a tasteful reframe(what's another $5-600 after you've already blown $4-6k??????)
  23. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Emibub summed it up perfectly. It always fried my backside that he got away with this for so long. I hope the pimp loses everything. He marketed himself and his 'valuable' paintings as an icon for Christianity. When you use religion as a way to sell to your product that is just amoral(sp?). I've had to dance around this with my mother who is very religious and thinks he is such a good Christian man. A 'good Christian man' wouldn't use his beliefs and those of others to make a very rich man of himself. UNfortunately he's not the first to do something like this...and probably won't be the last.


    I feel better now...I hope everyone has a lovely day :D
  24. KL Smith

    KL Smith CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Good job because if you did get all the tea in China you'd have a lot of Chinese tea drinkers really p'd off :)
  25. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    At a dealer seminar TK said," Let's get these suckers while they are hot" within earshot of my friend right before he went in with a big lecture.

    He will still be rich and many galleries will be out a few bucks.

    As my 2 year old would say, "NOT NICE!"
  26. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Amen to that!!
  27. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Reading the article, it says the two gallery owners were guaranteed an 18% return over five years....they put up 122 grand to enter the business. Doesn't sound like such a hot investment to me. Am I missing something?
  28. JackBingham CPF

    JackBingham CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    How's everyone feel about Christian Book stores?
  29. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God


    Great place to buy books pertaining to religion.
  30. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    This is probably asking for trouble, but I believe Hobby Lobby's parent company is a chain of bible book stores. (Mardel) This is why the HL stores are closed Sundays, and why they broadcast religious background music. HL is supposedly a large sponsor of Jerry Falwell's organization. (donations of land, money, etc)

    Chick-Fila, Alaska Airlines, Starbucks, and In & Out Burger chains have similar policies/marketing.

    While I respect their beliefs and right to express them, I probably wouldn't shop at any of the above companies because of this affiliation. (not to mention the serious objections I have with Jerry's teachings/interpretations) This would be a personal choice - and I am a Christian.

    I feel it is unfair to their non Christian employees and shoppers to be force fed, and have a problem with any company preying on people's faith for personal gain. (investments, retail, etc) The two just don't mix well.

    I hope I don't regret this post later
  31. Mike LeCompte CPF

    Mike LeCompte CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I started this thread, not to bash Kinkade or anyone else; simply as a point-of-informtaion. I personally don't like most of his work, but there are a few I would love to have--one whose name I forget but is a street scene from the 50s reminds me of the area in which I was a child.

    that said: someone in an earlier post asked why he is so hated. He's not hated; I feel a lot of people out there enjoy seeing someone who professes to be a christian get his or her comeuppance when they exhibit less-than-christian behavior.

    Witness the Bakkers, Jim and Tammy and --was it Swaggert?--the televangelist who got caught with another woman and who cried on TV begging forgiveness?

    There's something morbidly attractive about this to some people.
    So it is with TK I suppose. I have no qualms or bones to pick with any of these people. They don't think like I, their religion is not the same as mine.

    I just let them alone.

    But the origination of this was not to start a Kinkade bash. Just thought I'd let folks know this. If I had seen news of Greenwich, Larson, Michael's or similar I would have posted that too
  32. B. Newman

    B. Newman SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The term "Christian" means different things to different people. (see http://prayerlogue.blogspot.com/2006/02/terms-and-definitions.html )

    My business, as an extension of myself, is unashamedly "Christian." I write about what I do and believe in my newsletter which is titled "Newman Valley News & Views." Many of our customers are repeat because of this fact and some inspite of this fact. And the ones who left because of it never told me. (But then, most of us don't know "why" customers leave.)

    But Mike (Labbe), I respect your decisions. I feel the same way. I will not wear Levis or visit Disney World. Same reason, I don't want company decisions "forced" on me. Double standard? Maybe. But, it's my standard and I'm sticking with it! [​IMG]
  33. Mike LeCompte CPF

    Mike LeCompte CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Betty and I obviously posted simultaneously, or close to it, so let me respond to Mike's post a bit:

    I don't really care about your religious background when I do business. I love CHick FilA, will go there over McDonald's anby day--and to those of you who don't know. Chick Fil A is an Atlanta-based chain in the Southeast-expanding-rapidly who will not stay open on Sunday--because of the people/food and service.

    Most Chritian bookstores stare at me blindly when I ask for the authors Merton, Kung, Spong, Tillich and other of the best religious thinkers in the twentieth century. OK so that's not their market. So be it, I go somewhere else, usually Amazon.

    Here's my point. I have an open market from which to chose, If I ever had a chair to be recaned I'd find Betty in a heartbeat. We disagree, I just KNOW, in our religious viewpoints, but that's not stopping me from getting quality stuff.

    SO I guess what I'm saying is this: I don['t let religion or religious viewpoints interfere with my shopping. But that's just me I suppose
  34. WizSteve

    WizSteve MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Not to franken-thread a franken-thread, but I haven't though about Chick-Fil-A since I left Atlanta 10 years ago.

    The GA Tech band had this tradition where, after midnight someone would get hungry and round up everyone who was still up studying and go "dwarfing". The original Chick-Fil-A in Hapeville (happy-ville, just south of downtown Atlanta) had a Snow White and the 7 Dwarves theme. And the meal we would all order was called a "hot-brown", essentially this mysterious bowl of chicken, gravy, and stuff. Not bad with about a pint of Tabasco added.. fun times.

    I hadn't heard that about Starbucks. Unless you call coffee a religion. Then I'd be a fanatic.
  35. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Finally this guy has it figured out. He is finally able to live a life where he will never be asked to live with somebody with a different set of ideas.

    He is free to free to live a life totally unoffended.

    He isn’t bothered by people’s looks, thoughts, desires, intentions, or morality.

    He lives in a world where he is free to shop anywhere he wants without fear of supporting a union, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, co-op, LLC, Jerry Farkwell, Disney, or Walmart.

    He is free to talk to anybody he wants and they never offer to pray for him, cuss him, look down to him or up to him.

    He is no longer is viewed as the gay guy, the fat guy, the ugly guy, rich guy, or Christian guy.

    He doesn’t have his senses violated with rap music, God music, country music, or opera.

    He doesn’t have to look at TK or Picasso or Bev or Playboy.

    Yep it’s nothing but blue sky’s for him.

    Free at last, free at last…..thank God (or Buddha, or Abraham, or Thomas Kinkaide, or Money or what ever other “GOD” you choose to insert) almighty he is free at last.

    It’s your world…you created it…now live in it.

    \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/


    Not me buddy. I’ll gladly tolerate all of you as long as I don’t have to live a life like that! You tolerate me and we will both live happily ever after.
  36. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Oh for crying out loud folks. It isn't a slam at Christianity. This man has God pimping for him. He is not running his business in a Christian manner. He is deceiving people and selling an inferior worthless product. As Christians you should be offended. Why does it have to turn into persecution of all Christians?
  37. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Well I'm glad someone was able to put it into words. What would we do without Kathy's truthiness...Thank you [​IMG]
  38. B. Newman

    B. Newman SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    She didn't win that "Peace Prize Award" for nuttin' ya know! ;)

    Hey!!! :eek: Don't hug me around my NECK! [​IMG]
  39. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Sorry Betty, I will loosen my grip......
  40. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Betty, I gotta ask.....what is wrong with Levis and Disney World? they are as American as apple pie. Just curious. [​IMG]
  41. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    So Levi and Disney has forced some belief on Betty and Kathy don't even know what they did.

    That really makes you wonder how much "forcing" is going on.
  42. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ya Betty - please answer that one for me too - curious and JUST MIGHT AGREE!
  43. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner




    Yes, I am shouting, happily!!
  44. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    Its funny how you read threads and how they can veer so far off track that you forget what the original post was about.

    I remember the first time I read it (for whatever reason I didn’t post it at that time) I thought, “what did TK do wrong?” He’s a good salesman and those gallery owners are idiots. When did stupid become a legitimate argument in court? The only thing he is guilty of is outselling the idiots that bought his product. If somebody “guarantees” you investments returns and/or you are wow’ed by words like `partner,' `trust,' `Christian,' and `God'” then you deserve to lose your a$$!

    Who’s next, Wild Wings, Image Conscious, Larson Juhl? I think this ruling in the galleries favor is a joke!
  45. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Jay, I think there was more to it than idiots parting with their money.

    There was misrepresentation, which is illegal. I believe the exact wording is:

    In a 2-1 ruling released Thursday, the panel found that Media Arts Group executive Richard Barnett and Pebble Beach Financial, a business planning firm associated with Media Arts, painted a rosy financial picture for opening an art gallery, but then made it nearly impossible for them to succeed.

    This is both misrepresentation and criminal intent.

    This is not good-salemanship, this is hustling.
  46. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    The same could be said for time share condo's couldn't it? I don't see it as illegal or misrepresentation. Buildings, like businesses, could burst or bust. The builder, or publisher, is rather neutral in this. Its up to you to inform yourself above what the saleman claims. Its your money and your investment. Nobody is responcible for protecting it.

    By the way, I have a time share in Gatlinburg TN that is due to burst anyday now. Perhaps you would be interested in buying it from me now before the price doubles in a year or so (I think). Whatcha going to do? Am I missleading you? Perhaps you would rather do some research? I guess you could just cut me a check for $11,000 if you take my word for it.
  47. FramerDave

    FramerDave PFG, Picture Framing God

    I'm not sure about Betty, but I know some people have problems with Levi Strauss because they extend domestic partner benefits to same-sex couples.

    And Disney World allows lots of homosexuals wearing red shirts into their park once a year. Disney does not actually organize or have anything to do with "Gay Day," it's just that thousands of festive homersexuals happen to show up on that day. And they have domestic partner benefits too.

    Framer ican'tbelieveigotmyselfdraggedintothis Dave
  48. Jana

    Jana SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I didn't know this about Disney and Levi Strauss. I laud them for being open-minded and progressive. So I'm glad you mentioned it, FramerDave.

    I feel like buying a pair of Levis and going on a road trip to Disneyworld. :D
  49. JackBingham CPF

    JackBingham CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

  50. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Shoot - & I was thinking about going to Disneyland! - good thing I wear noBrand jeans!
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