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Tolerance of another Point of View

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Bob Carter, Jun 26, 2008.

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  1. Whynot

    Whynot SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    TG's what grumblers made it to be and Bob is a very consistent and precious part of its fabric; his participation brought professionalism, balance, experience and vision to it. Framer gave us a stage only, and that alone means little without good actors and spectators. In a world of less and less framers, TG can't aford to alienate us by way of humiliating one of Bob's stature just like old time teachers were punishing naughty pupils. As far as I am concerned, the day Bob was banned was the beginnig of TG's end. Its best days are behind, not ahead of us. It's a shame and I am going to voluntarily take distance from this group. I'll be happy to meet with you in person at different events, but I grew tired of this forum. This was your last flashing as far as I am concerned. Good bye.
  2. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

  3. FramerDave

    FramerDave PFG, Picture Framing God


    emibub started it
  4. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    .................did not!
  5. The King

    The King SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    (I don't think the masses are happy about being referred to as sheep.)
  6. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Ron, I'm okay with it as long as everybody else is too...............I'll go with the group.
  7. surferbill

    surferbill SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I resemble that remark.

  8. FramerDave

    FramerDave PFG, Picture Framing God

    At least he didn't say sheeple.
  9. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ya'll got the clap
  10. jframe

    jframe <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><

    Awwwww. You beat me to it, Dave. THE SHEEPLE!
  11. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Too funny, and too subtle!
  12. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Nobody has to agree with the moderators, any of us could protest to the owner about what they do. If they screw up, they are fully capable of correcting an error, or the owner of The G is free to take whatever action he deems appropriate. Of course, protesting to the owner on some basis of reason is not like your blanklet condemnation.

    Comparing The G to The Constitution is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Assuming you are referring to our country's leaders (political or industrial) as "Those that Own Amerika", your analogy is just wrong. They did not volunteer for the job, they get others to do their bidding, and earn very serious money. And they have not received the "same kind of consolation". Au contraire, hardly anyone is willing to give them consolation. You compare them to moderators on The G? That's laughable.

    The G is not a democracy. It is privately-owned and controlled. We don't have a vote here. However, if we do not like the forum, we are free to go. As a classic example of this freedom, Cornel has just said "good-bye".

    No, it is not. Anyone with a computer can read what's here. That means your competitors, your friends, your family, and your customers can learn how you treat those around you. Privately owned does not mean private.
  13. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

  14. nancyg

    nancyg CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    threadkiller strikes again


    This should do it :p

    Smile Away
  15. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Calm down Val and Nancy. It may not be your brand of humor but we have been having fun here. I for one have been cracking up since the fool posted. Not everything has to be gumdrops and lollipops to be entertaining. Not that there is anything wrong with gumdrops and lollipops.
  16. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    I really hope Kathy never leaves this Forum.....:thumbsup:
  17. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    The Grumble solution to every controversy: let's talk about food instead. Kathy, got enough lollipops to pass out to everyone? I'm stopping by the store if you need me to pick up more.
  18. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Anne, I'm thinking with the average age of Grumblebums gumdrops and lollipops might be a little rough on the teeth. Since most of us won't have the dental insurance rekwired to be replacing fillings and crowns how about a nice plate of cheese and warm milk?
  19. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Thanks Paul! You guys will have to hunt me down and kill me like a baby seal(?) to get me off this forum. And even then I will haunt you in your dreams.
  20. FramerDave

    FramerDave PFG, Picture Framing God

    Or how about a pancake?

  21. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    The ironic thing is this should be moved over to warped.

    But then if it did move Bob C Would not be able to see his own thread. (at least for a few more days)

    Just for my own info, what does it take to get the boot from the G.

    I have been kicked out of bars, college, cars, bedrooms and even a comedy show. How do I round out my portfolio?

    Bob (No not the banned one)
  22. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Pancakes would be perfect! Not kwite sure how or if to cook the bunny though.
  23. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  24. Dermot:

    Dermot: In Corner

    Pi*s Bill off...
  25. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    I understand completely why "WhyNot" opted to upgrade the quality of his acquaintances.

    Not that easy with me.

    I'm willing to be a thorn for awhile longer .... you guys need one.
  26. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    So, what are the chances that now that we are herding sheep, boiling, or possibly roasting bunnies, clubbing baby seals and sucking on lollipops(those of us with sturdy teeth) that Bob is still even reading this?
  27. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Whynot aka Cornel also has the grace of a pubic hair on a wedding cake.

    (Will that do it?)
  28. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Not even close Bob. Are you looking for a time out?
  29. Bogframe

    Bogframe SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Shake and Bake works quite well on Rabbit. Don't ask me how I know, it's a long and disquieting story envolving a Bull Python and a fishing pole.
  30. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Thanks for sharing Boggy! This is turning into the best thread ever!
  31. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

  32. Bogframe

    Bogframe SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Does that mean that you want to know what a Shake and Bake rabbit has to do with a fishing pole and a Bull Python?!
  33. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Awww you wuv us and need us. You feel all warm and cuddly in the Grumble blanket of wuv and just don't want to leave. :thumbsup:
  34. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Sure Boggy, let's hear it. Just keep in mind in spite of the clubbed baby seals and roasting rabbits I speak of in jest I am vewwwy vewwwy sensitive to the plight of all creatures on this earth. Except spiders.
  35. Bogframe

    Bogframe SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    You asked for it:
    My best friend had a Bull Python called (what else) Monty. Monty was over 6' long and ate rabbits. Whole.
    One day, Monty bit, but decided not to eat his rabbit. We couldn't leave it in the tank, so we took it into the back yard. My friend hit it in the head with his fishing pole, skinned and eviscerated it, and then we took it into the house, cut it up, and using Shake & Bake, cooked it! MMMMMMMMMMmmmm, good eatin'.
  36. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    Yuk, yuk, yuk ....

    It's so delightfully inane to cast colorful dispersions on people and get equally brainless confirmations in return ..

    Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk......

    (Is it possible that YOU are the ones to be laughed at..???)

    (Ooooooooo... is it time for the Hulking, Omnipotent, Knuckle-Dragging Moderators to come lurching over the hill to remove this frivolity to some dark corner of TG...?????)
  37. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    I upgrade the quality of my friends by blocking those that make me more stupid everytime I read their rants. I'm adding another right now.
  38. FramingFool

    FramingFool In Corner

    On third thought,

    I'm outta here......

    I've got more productive and personally satisfying ways to spend my time.

    This was fine as a framing forum ...... as a social club, .... it sucks.

  39. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Wow, the framingfool is gone AND Cornel in the same thread.

    Christmas came early this year. (not to mention the return of Ron,bonus)

    Gained 1 intelligent grumbler and dropped 2 dopes. It is a good day.

    Not to knock myself out of this thread as well but I am going on a little vacation in about 24 minutes and won't be back here until about the 10th at which time I expect that not much will change. (If anything big happens, someone pm me)

    Have a great 4th everyone.

  40. FraminGal

    FraminGal CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Is that guy clapping even when we're not looking?
  41. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Gal, that might be a good kwestion for the techi forum. If you want any tips on how to shake and bake a bunny you came to the right place for answers.
  42. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    That video cracked me up. Thanks for the diversion.
  43. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I think it's sad when anyone is driven away from this forum. We all know that Whynot and I have butted heads on numerous occasions, but that doesn't mean I want to see him leave.

    Same with FramingFool. Just because his views are different than yours, or he expresses them in a different way, is no reason to gang up on him. This forum survives because of its diversity, not in spite of it.

    The mob mentality and group hijacking is a dissapointing part of this community and something I hope will stop. It's not humor, it's immaturity and dark, biting sarcasm trying to hide behind a mask of humor. It's only purpose is to humiliate and drive away someone whose views are not your own.

    Losing people like Bob, Cornell, Framingfool or anyone is something to be ashamed of, not a cause for celebration. We should all strive to be more tolerent of other views. That's what this thread was about and hopefully will get back to. Let's try to not destroy that which we value.
  44. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    I agree with Paul, as long as everyone else agrees with me, and my point of view. :)

  45. deaconsbench

    deaconsbench SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    "Same with FramingFool. Just because his views are different than yours, or he expresses them in a different way, is no reason to gang up on him. This forum survives because of its diversity, not in spite of it."

    Paul, opinions are one thing. Attempts to aggravate/incite others for blind self-pleasure are quite different. Surely you can see the difference, no? When someone comes simply looking for a fight and gets one, where should sympathy lie?
  46. DTWDSM

    DTWDSM SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I had decided to stay out of this one but this really has gone on too long so what the h3ll, I will throw out my 2 cents....

    As Bob stated in another thread, we are friends and I too enjoy my visits with him, I have learned a lot from him. The thread that caused the "banning" just got out of hand, when personal, private issues came out, it was time to shut it down. I was disappointed that a simple disagreement had to get ugly, I think both are better than that.

    I could be wrong, It's happened before, but I think that the main reason that this thread was started was because Bob thought that he was the only one who was banned and he did not think that was right. It turns out that both parties were banned so the right thing, the fair thing, was done.

    All of this other BS going on here is just that..BS!

    I don't alway agree with Paul, but sometime I do, I usually do agree with Whynot, but do not agree with the way that he conveys his points. If both of them left, and others, the grumble would not be the same, and that would be a sad thing.

    I always tell my salespeople to make sure they do not take anything that a customer says personal, I say the same about online forums, if everyone agreed, the world would be boring. Sometimes, if you really listen to others you may realize that you were wrong. People read way to much into what is said and let it bother them. I know, I have done the same.

    This thread, and others, has become personal to people who have nothing to do with the original subject. Bob did not have anything bad to say about being banned, he just questioned the fairness of the banning, and it was answered, that should have been the end of the thread.

    Ignore lists, private forums, and any other things like them are not needed, if you do not like what you are reading, STOP READING!!!! If you do not like the way the Grumble is moderated, STOP GRUMBLING!

    Life goes on, do something more constructive with your lives than try to figure out a conspiracy theory within the moderators of the Grumble!

    I too am done with the Grumble.

    For today :)
  47. FramerDave

    FramerDave PFG, Picture Framing God

    Ask Erwin Schrodinger.
  48. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Sometimes the printed word gets interpreted differently by different people. Others are simply not as skilled at presenting their thoughts, or their passion is mistaken for arrogance.

    Proclaiming one's self as judge, jury and executioner, may derail a thread, but it often leaves scars on the forum. The vigilante is usually far more dangerous and damaging than the perceived perpetrator.

    The exception to this, and where I would agree with you, is when it gets personal, but that is where the moderators step in. And rightly so.

    If you look at their history and MO of intervention in such matters, you will find that they operate in consistent and recognizable manner that is usually welcomed by the "combatants."

    Sometimes the parties doing battle need the referee to step in and say, "Break." I can recall numerous times where Mike has jumped into a thread that I was involved in, and fired a subtle shot accross the bow with a simple line such as, "This is going nowhere fast."

    The rules of engagement are pretty clearly defined for anyone who takes the time to look:

    • If someone throws a punch, they should expect one in return.
    • The person who initiates an attack needs to initiate the cease fire.
    • If it goes more than couple of rounds, the mod fires a warning shot. If it's not heeded, further action is taken, such as locking a thread. Only in very rare circumstances does it go beyond.
    • If it's not your battle, stay out of it. Argue the issues if you want, but don't aggravate the personal battle. Sometimes you can end the discord and put a thread back on track by bringing the conversation on topic.
    Hint: Look for even numbers--post right after after the counterpunch. If it's personal, let the principals settle it, and allow the moderators to do their job.
    • Every day is a new day on the Grumble. Don't hold grudges.
    There's always going to be a need for authority to maintain balance in any online society, but it should come from the proper place, not from self-appointed superior beings. We may not always agree with actions taken, or not taken, by the moderators, but their consistency has always earned my respect.
  49. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    If the sole purpose of this thread was to find out if the other party was also sanctioned, that could have been done without a public discussion by sending a PM to one of the moderators to see if justice was applied equally. There was really no need to make any of this public in the first place. It is only causing further turmoil on here.
  50. Dermot:

    Dermot: In Corner

    If all fully understood the legalities (US Law) of running a board like the Grumble, this thread would never have been started……….

    There are copyright issues to name just one when you block someone from the site….

    Just because the owners of this site and has some conditions about using the site doesn’t give them any legal right to block someone from the site…they can but it is no longer legal to do it…..

    The legalities of sites like this have greatly changed in the last year or so……

    Posters also now have legal responsibilities for what they post on this site….

    I’m posting this post not in any threatening manner but rather to bring to notice that there are legal issues around running a site like this and the way the moderators have behaved in the past could and possibly will leave themselves open to the ensuing results of not understanding their legal responsibilities………with regards to a site like this……….

    Bottom line regardless of what the conditions of the owner of the site has …………the poster owns the copyright of their post………..but also owns the responsibility of their posts ………..providing the have access to the site….

    I will most likely get blocked ……….like I did before………….. for rising this issue…though I will ask ………please do not “shoot” the messenger ....for what it is worth…..
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