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Problem Tru Vue Conservation Clear

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by neilframer, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Both give the same great advice. If you have a problem call the company. We know what our problems with TV are, they can't read our minds. Call them.

    If you have a problem, and then document that problem the problem can be addressed. If you have a problem, and don't document that problem then learn to live with it, it's your problem, you own it.

    Thanks Jeff and Jim, I agree with you both :)
  2. nikfrz

    nikfrz SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    When did TV begin calling on frame shops?
  3. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    They only visit a couple of stores per state each year. They asked the suppliers who should get a visit.
  4. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I was visited by one out of the blue so i wasn't ready with questions about things, and i figured i wouldnt' get real answers so i didn't ask some that i thought of.

    I asked about the UV protection, and that was it since it was a big topic on here at the time.
  5. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    According to Tru Vue yesterday, there has been no change to their return policy. Framers are supposed to go back to their distributor for replacement of any defective Tru Vue product. They prefer to have the lot number off the box, but it is not absolutely required. Tru Vue will take care of the exchange with the supplier. If your supplier is not cooperative, call the Help Line. The policy has been like that for a long time.

    Tru Vue has always had a liberal replacement policy. If you find a defect and choose not to get the lite replaced, then you must know Tru Vue remains unaware that you had a problem. Your silence enables and perpetuates whatever manufacturing deficiencies might exist.

    When I called Tru Vue, I asked if there has been any rash of defects. About a year ago there was a bad batch of Conservation Clear, and the distributors were notified to send back for exchange their inventories from the specific lot involved. Note that some distributors buy glass by the truckload, several months' worth of inventory.

    Of course there is some administrative cost involved with returning the glass and receiving replacement boxes, but that is a routine cost of doing business. Assuming some distributors are as bad about getting warranty replacements as some framers are, it is a safe bet that some of that glass could still be sitting in distributors' warehouses. I guess if you're willing to take it, they're willing to deliver it. That isn't right, but it is reality.
  6. wvframer

    wvframer MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I always wonder when I see lots of complaints about TV Con Clear. I have had 2 problems in 17 years of using it as my standard. Both times, my distributor promptly replaced it on my next delivery. In one of those instances, TV sent me a certificate for a case of glass.

    If you aren't getting satisfaction from your distributor, contact the TV Helpline and let them know.

    They consistently provide great marketing materials, and even gloves and microfiber cloths. There is a little less of the free stuff than there used to be, but still they are very generous. Not to name names, but other major manufactures often charge me for marketing materials, and then I have to wait months to get them.

    Other than being a customer, I don't have a relationship with TV or any other company.
  7. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Well, I started this thread over a month ago about getting two boxes of CC that had tracks on them and had to be returned.
    Somehow this has morphed into something else.
    I have had some problems over the years with flaws, black specs, sparkles in the coating, scratches fresh out of the box, etc.
    I've also had a few problems with overspray on the black lettering. Not a huge deal, a little acetone and it wipes off.
    I have never had a problem with returning the flawed glass and getting credit and replacement, even after it has been cut.
    I am very particular as are many of the photographer customers I work with. I have the eye of an Eagle and so do they.
    I can't tell a client to put up with flaws in the glass that I am charging them extra for.
    My only real complaint is that I (we) shouldn't have to be the quality control on the glass.
    Time is money.
  8. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    And you shouldn't, and no glass supplier would expect you to do that, which is why the warranty policy for glass is as liberal, straight-forward, and uncomplicated as possible.

    True that.

    We are the final inspectors for everything that goes out the door, and we find flaws in all of our major components - often after applying labor to them. Moulding probably has more flaws, causes more waste, and costs us more dollars than any other type of product we use. Some days it seems like most sticks have warps or finish flaws. The suppliers are unapologetic, beyond an occasional footage allowance, and we are accustomed to that. It's how our business works.

    When we find matboard surface-texture flaws or dark-colored bits of debris in the top paper or bevels, or if the layers delaminate, or if the colors are not quite right, we are expected to throw it away. When we find flaws in the top paper of foam boards, or voids in the foam under it, we are expected to throw it away. But when we find flaws in glass, we are expected to ask for replacements.

    For a few like Johnny, who finds multiple flaws every day, asking for replacement lites of glass must be quite inconvenient. For the multitude of other framers who find only a few flaws a year, it's hardly worth mentioning.
  9. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ill just add, that I don' t make much of a stink, other than when we are paying for the expnesive stuff, and it has issues.

    Reg conservation, i just wait till i have something smaller and cut it down if i have issues... but when the price of the glass costs as much as it does for museum there is a reason we complain because we cannot just throw that away unlike a matboard or foam...

    foam.. just use it as filler if its bad. same with matboard as a backing board if its a smaller frame... as for messed up glass... not a lot you can do with that other than cut it down and lose the extra money on the larger sheets.

    as for moulding... we can't really straighten trees so much, esp the pine they mostly use now. We have left overs most the time anyways, so cut around the flaw and use the rest, because most throw the extra foot or 2 away anyways.

    that is all :)
  10. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Framers would have reason to complain if the supplier expected them to throw away the flaws, as the suppliers of other products do, but the glass supplier wants framers to ask for replacement and makes it an easy process.
  11. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm curious, those that do return glass on a regular basis ... full sheets?
    An already cut piece?

    No matter how much I (or my helper) tried to see the flaw before cutting, we inevitably see it after it's been cut to size. At that point, (right or wrong) we usually just get angry, put it aside and cut another piece.

    Do you send the cut piece back? I never have sent any back.

    I have about a months worth of 4" to 6" squares with flaws circled with sharpie, put in a box. About 1/4 of a box that was a case of wine. I figure I'll give it to my LJ rep next time I see him. Not expecting a refund, just want them to get and see what I'm dealing with.
  12. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yeah, glass companies are pretty good about that. At least for me i find more flaws in glass then matboard or foam. I don't think ive ever found a flaw in the foam before???

    Most the time in mat board i can cut out the imperfection. can't do that with glass.

    sometimes not, and i have gotten a replacement from my supplier.
  13. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Well I got another one for the list to call in about. lines on museum glass today.... UGH. I wish they would just read the grumble, but you don' get your money back that way.
  14. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    When I see scratch lines on my museum glass I look long and hard at my wall cutter. Might be time to change the slip sheet you have on it. You do use a slip sheet to keep the delicate coated side away from the scuffed up sheet metal?

    If my slip sheet is good then I know I can blame someone else. But if I get scratch lines in the same spot on multiple panes and from different boxes I look closer to home for the problem.

    Now specs in my matboard is a different matter :)
  15. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I RARELY get scratches in glass. I get bubbles. Ain't nothin' I did to squeeze them little buggers in there.
  16. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    the line is 3 inches inside of the glass about 3 inches long, and it was on the non coated side which is the side that doesn't go towards the cutter. If i scratched it the line would have been horizontal instead of vertical. because i set it down and slide it in from left to the right.
  17. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yes I get those too. I figured it was the way we were handling it until I saw one come out of the case that way. Then I figured it was the way we take them out of the case so we've been opening them up more and carefully removing the glass.

    This stuff can really play with your head.

    Needs to be more durable imo.
  18. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    When I find a flaw that would increase the amount of scrap from the lite, and I'm sure it wasn't damaged in our own handling, I ask for replacement. It doesn't happen often.

    We usually find the flaw after cutting. I note the lot number on the box and save the cut piece until the replacement lite comes. Only on a few occasions suppliers have taken back the cut, flawed piece in exchange. They usually just tell us to scrap it. But in any case, the flaw is reported and the whole lite is replaced.

    You get angry? Seriously? If you don't make a warranty claim for a flawed product, it doesn't exist in the world outside of your back room. No manufacturer could know about flaws you throw away.
  19. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    understood. guilty.
  20. Puppiesonacid

    Puppiesonacid SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Im beginning to wonder if they send all the carp to my supplier.

    another flaw in museum and i found it before i cut it, and another bubble in conservation clear....

    I should be their new inspector, Or paid to report all of this.....
  21. johnny

    johnny SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I tend to get all postie about this glass when I'm shorthanded or really busy and have to frame a lot myself. So here I am being all postie.

    Trying to put a cutoff from a previous flawed piece of museum on a shadowbox with a black linen mat. I'm actually sweating, ha.

    So out of frustration I grabbed the little blue bottle the Frame Specialties guy left here and #### it if it doesn't work better than anything I've tried. It's called Ultra Lite.

    I recommend it. Took streaking right out of the equation even on the business side of the museum.
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