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Tru-Vue Survey

Jeff K

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Got an e-mail today from Tru-Vue asking me to fill out a survey. Opened the link, tried really hard to fill it out but had to quit. I felt like the answers I wanted to give were not options in their multiple choice selections and felt that I was being steered to give answers they wanted to hear.
I appreciate that they want framers input to help with marketing but was bothered by the way the survey was assembled. I Sent them an e-mail expressing my concerns. Any one else seen it?

Jeff K
 
888

more_so

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Haven't seen that specific one. But multiple choice feedback surveys are a total waste of time for the user, they won't lead to a better product. They are intended solely to vindicate the manufacturer's assumptions about their product while avoiding any sort of input the manufacturer hasn't heard or doesn't want to hear. Was there a check mark for "has little red spots?"
 

Grey Owl

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Yes, I received the survey. It did say to skip any questions that you couldn't answer.

I think it is great they are asking opinions. However I believe their survey is poorly designed, and unfortunately, Tru-Vue received a poor return on their investment.

There are several examples of bad questions. When I inquired, they said the questions had been based on in-depth interviews with framers.

For example, concerning a question on Museum Glass, and the prices, the allowable answers for the MAXIMUM PRICE for a consumer to pay ranged from $2.00 per square foot to $12.00 per square foot.

When I buy the 16 x 20 size, that is approx 2.22 square feet. Basically, my cost is above that. I cannot believe anyone is selling Museum Glass at those prices.

The actual question is below: Sorry, I can't change the text size.
In your opinion, what is the maximum price per square foot you believe YOUR customers would be willing to pay for UV + anti-reflective(Museum Glass)?
$2 per square foot
$3 per square foot
$4 per square foot
$5 per square foot
$6 per square foot
$7 per square foot
$8 per square foot
$9 per square foot
$10 per square foot
$11 per square foot
$12 per square foot
Over $12 per square foot
 

Mikesshop

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Jeff,

I got my survey today and couldn't open the link. I'll try again later, but if I can't answer the questions honestly I may not bother.

Mike
 

couture's gallery

PFG, Picture Framing God
got mine..started to fill it out..got kind of confusing and overly complicated...quit and deleted it.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I personally think TruVue needs a new marketing firm.
 

Sherry Lee

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Unfortunately, surveys in general ARE a waste of time!

IMHO, the best way to communicate anything you would want to get across in a survey is to write a letter directly to the source. Then your point can't be manipulated.
 

Framar

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I got a phone call from TruVue (today, yesterday?) and they said they were just calling to see how stuff was going and if I had any concerns and which distributors I bought glass from and what I sold the most of.

They confirmed my email addy but so far no survey.

I hate those surveys - last time I got sucked into one on the phone ("This will just take two minutes") I ended up telling the inquisitor that while I realized that it was not his fault how idiotic the questions were but if I had his job I would be slashing my wrists by the end of the day.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
About 20 years ago I was invited to participate in a group discussion to talk about matboard. About 20 of us, all picture framers, sat around a table and talked about the pros and cons of matboard.
We were observed through two way mirrors and apparently our answers and reactions were noted.
I don't know if it was Crescent or Bainbridge but we got free donuts, soft drinks and they gave us each $50 at the end of about an hour.
Ah, the good old days.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
So now they can save all their money and just watch us bitch on the Grumble! LOL.
And bitch we will! I'm going to stay away from politics on here, though.
It goes nowhere.
 

Bill Henry-

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I got the e-mail, but I haven’t even looked at the survey. Their reward is a coupon for Starbucks. Big Whoop!

I don’t drink coffee and their ain’t no Starbucks in New Hampshire that I know of, anyway.

Besides, TruVue has not been at all forthcoming in answering some questions that I have asked them in the past.

Nah, I’ll pass.
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
I got it and read most of it. I did respond, but they are probably tired of hearing from me on the subject, so my hopes aren't up.
Tru Vue spends an inordinate amount of time and money on this results driven kind of marketing considering that they have no real competition for our glazing dollars. This survey, like the other promotions they had over the last few years relies too much on the time and energy of the person it is supposed to help, the framer. I don't want to take surveys, keep receipts and copies of invoices, or worry if some new shopper might just be a secret agent. Use the money to get the product to the framer at a better cost and stop pulling shenanigans like relabeling your products in order to deceive your end user.
 

Thedra

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I got the e-mail, but I haven’t even looked at the survey. Their reward is a coupon for Starbucks. Big Whoop!

I don’t drink coffee and their ain’t no Starbucks in New Hampshire that I know of, anyway.

Besides, TruVue has not been at all forthcoming in answering some questions that I have asked them in the past.

Nah, I’ll pass.
There are three in Nashua and one in Manchester! About ten in all that I know of!

Tom
 

TopHat

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I completed the survey - some odd questions, to be sure. But they did have a comments section, and requested Museum Glass in 11x14 and 8x10. Does anyone else find it irritating to have to cut a 16x20 down for those?
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
Didn't take the survey.

As far as cutting down 8x10 & 11x14.

Even on CC, which is our default unless I had a large job calling for those sizes I would not be ordering it by the case. (I do stock every size up from 16x20) Most of the time their are plenty of offalls to get your 8x10 pieces. For 11x14 I simply cut an 22x28 into four 11x14 as needed. Now if it were MG you would have to wrap each piece, but I would rather do that than stock expensive boxes in those smaller sizes.
 

Paul N

In Corner
Attention all Companies conducting surveys:

I have stopped giving / answering surveys over the phone or via email.

My time is expensive. Therefore, should somebody want a survey from me, they'd better invite me to a decent lunch.

Hint: Good wine will reflect favorably on the product. If taking me out to lunch or dinner is not an option, just mail me a case of decent wine and I will give it serious consideration.

Sincerely,
PaulN,
President and CSO (Chief Survey Officer)
Frame & Art Gallery II

 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I would love to see TV take every dime they spend marketing and reduce the glass price by that amount. No amount of money they spend marketing could ever equal the effect of a much more reasonable price on the product. If they want to sell me more make it less expensive for my customer.

I am not looking to take higher profit margins on a lower priced item but would rather have 2% or 3% of my customers buy it and fall in love with the product. I use a lower margin on Museum now and that doesn't sell much of it. I currently buy about 2 boxes per year of Museum but would prefer that to be 2 boxes per month. A real price reduction could easily make that happen.
 

TSF

True Grumbler
I have to agree with Jeff about the need for a price reduction.
Checked our prices hear and Museum costs us 17.39 per sq. ft.
Don't know what customers would be willing to pay to make it a popular item but it certainly isn't reflected in the survey.
 

KenKBConsulting

Grumbler in Training
interesting timing on this thread. I just completed a tour of the facility that applies the coatings for the premium glass on Tru-Vue products. Until you see the incredible detail and the scope of creating this product you think it IS priced high.
After viewing what it takes to make it a consistently high quality component, I left with a new appreciation and the belief that it is worth every nickel. If you ever get a chance to see how the premium coatings are applied don't miss it.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Ken, did you see a seperate production line for Michaels?
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ken, did you see a seperate production line for Michaels?
They make that in an old rotting barn on the back of the property so it is only worth a fraction of what independant framers pay.
 

Terry Scidmore CPF

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
The investment club I belong to owns some stock in Apogee, parent company for Tru Vue.

From the 2010 SEC filings:


curtainwall products for the U.S. commercial construction industry. Our LSO segment consists of Tru Vue, Inc., a manufacturer of value-added glass and acrylic for the custom picture framing and commercial optics markets.

Despite weak retail market conditions, our LSO segment maintained revenues and operating income as new and ongoing value–added product customers continued to convert to our best framing products during fiscal 2010.

LSO segment. Our basic strategy in this segment is to convert the custom picture framing market from clear uncoated glass to value-added glass that protects art from UV damage while minimizing reflection from the glass so that viewers see the art rather than the glass. We estimate that approximately 40 percent of the retail picture framing market has converted to value-added glass while the ultimate potential is significantly higher. We offer a variety of products with varying levels of reflection control and promote the benefits to consumers with point-of-purchase displays and other promotional materials. We also work to educate the fragmented custom picture framing market on the opportunity to improve the profitability of their framing business by offering value-added glass.

In fiscal 2009, we extended this strategy to the fine art market, which includes museums and private collections. We also made capital investments to support the conversion to value-added picture framing products as well as to grow the fine art market. As part of that extension, we developed value-added acrylic products in addition to glass. Acrylic is a preferred material in the fine art markets because the art can be much larger and weight is an important consideration. In fiscal 2010, we expanded our strategies to include other markets that can be served with anti-reflective acrylic products.

Fiscal 2010 Compared to Fiscal 2009

Consolidated gross profit improved by 1.6 percentage points primarily due to improvements in margins in the installation and window businesses as a result of project mix and execution of work that was largely bid in stronger markets. In addition, our picture framing business saw a positive mix of our best value-added glass and acrylic products. Cost management and productivity improvements through out the Company, partially offset by the impact of fixed costs on lower sales and lower pricing in the second half of the year for the architectural glass business, also contributed to the improvement in gross profit margin.



So the survey is probably research in how to best accomplish converting more retailers to high end value added products.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ken, did you see a seperate production line for Michaels?
Ken's a really nice man, so he may not want to take your bait, but I will. I was on the same tour of that Faribault, Minnesota plant and I asked specifically about Masterpiece Glass, because I wanted to learn whether anything had changed since the last time I asked several years ago. Nothing has changed in that regard.

No, there is not a separate coating apparatus for any particular customer. As has been explained previously, the only difference between Museum Glass and Masterpiece Glass is the range of tolerances for inspection. Some of the coated glass that would not meet Museum Glass quality specifications would meet Masterpiece Glass specifications. The difference is in the quantity and severity of flaws accepted during inspection. That is not to imply that Masterpiece Glass is always flawed; some of it may be as good as Museum Glass...but some of it is not.

Every sheet of coated glass and acrylic is automatically inspected by sensitive scanning equipment, so it is quite easy for the production engineers to program in the tolerance for certain types of flaws.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
You wanna buy a bridge?

I think it's time for the small businesses of our industry to demand a product from Tru-Vue that's just like the one they sell to Michaels and at a price that lets us sell it for about what Michaels is selling it for.

Until that happens, I will not support Tru-Vue, will not sell their products and will not recommend their products.

Any framer in this industry can match or beat Michaels price on every custom framing product they sell, except for Tru-Vue. It's wrong and it's unfair to every small business in this industry. Sell us that same product and at a comparable price. I'm willing to accept the same so-called flaws that a big successful company like Michaels finds acceptable. It's tough enough to compete with big companies without your suppliers tilting the playing field.

Wakeup!
 

Paul N

In Corner
Ken, did you see a seperate production line for Michaels?
Ken's a really nice man, so he may not want to take your bait, but I will.
I don't think Paul C was baiting Ken at all (unless you see lots of questions around the grumble and you automatically suspect they are baited...)

I think it was a legitimate question, and considering the volume that Micheal's mega-stores buy from TV, it is a very good question. One would expect a separate line JUST for that product.

Just to flippantly assume it was a baited question then say Michael's gets the below tolerance sheets by the millions.... stretches credibility way farther than the non-existing Michael's glass line.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I also assume, that since M's can buy quantity, they will always have a better price than us indies. Not sure if M's has a warehouse or TV stocks for them though...

I didn't take the survey, as I simply don't like taking surveys and i don't care for Starbucks...I'll make my own coffee thankyouverymuch

I do sell a good amount of museum glass and customers are generally happy to have a choice. Sometimes they go for the less expensive, but I am always surprised how many people will opt for the MG.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I think it's time for the small businesses of our industry to demand a product from Tru-Vue that's just like the one they sell to Michaels and at a price that lets us sell it for about what Michaels is selling it for...Sell us that same product and at a comparable price.
We probably will never know for sure, but if you bought the number of truckloads of coated glass that Michaels does, I'd bet you could get reeeeally close on the pricing.

Until that happens, I will not support Tru-Vue, will not sell their products and will not recommend their products.
The pricing of Museum Glass for us -- the ordinary small independent framers -- is lower than the pricing of all other optically coated, 99% UV filtering glazing products available in the USA. You certainly are free to pass up the best products and the best prices in that product category if you choose, but it makes no sense to cut off your nose to spite your face.

Why keep the most economical product of its kind from your customers, and why give up the profit potential?
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
...
The pricing of Museum Glass for us -- the ordinary small independent framers -- is lower than the pricing of all other optically coated, 99% UV filtering glazing products available in the USA.
Really? Surely you have some data to support this? How about even a few examples? Anecdotal evidence? Anything at all?

You and I don't buy truckloads of anything, and neither does anyone else here in all likelihood. Despite this, you can sell matboard, mounting, moulding, and other types of glass at a price that's competitive with M's and still enjoy a fair markup.

Not so with Museum Glass. Michaels retail price is far below your wholesale cost. If you want to let a supplier p*** on you, go ahead. I won't.
 

Frances M.

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
This was the second internet survey I've gotten and completed. I've also completed 2 or 3 phone surveys. This survey is the first time their (admittedly skewed) questions have asked us about the effect of pricing and costs in regards to our sales of Museum Glass and Conservation Glass so I took every opportunity by my multiple choice answers and little essay answers to keep repeating that I am making no effort to "up-sell" their glass and that I will not carry the load to prop up their profits when they discount so heavily to the BB's.

I use mostly Conservation Clear and am happy with it but when a customer provided their own 12 pieces of Masterpiece/Museum Glass for a framing project because my little markup was overpriced, well then I gave up promoting Museum Glass. I buy when needed, cut pieces out of one box of 36 x 48 and wrap scraps.

On the telephone surveys, when I explained why I was so mad at Tru Vue, even the telemarketers agreed with me that the imbalance in costs to us vs. Big Boxes sounded horrible and they didn't blame me for feeling abused. We all know that purchases in huge quantities yields discounts but if they want their market to grow they are going to have to take steps to make it more equitable and I think we all need to keep telling them this whenever they do one of their dumb surveys.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Really? Surely you have some data to support this? How about even a few examples? Anecdotal evidence? Anything at all?
I have seriously shopped for a less costly product comparable to Museum glass on two occasions. Both times I tried, I could not find one -- even before adding the shipping cost. I guess others have had similar experiences, because as far as I know, nobody on The Grumble has mentioned success in such a search.

But don't take my word for it. Shop around, as some of us have, and be sure to let us know if you find a UV filtering, optically coated glass that costs less than Museum Glass.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
If you want to let a supplier p*** on you, go ahead. I won't.
So, if you had a frame shop and a customer wanted to buy UV filtering, optically coated glass, you would refuse?

You seem to be a pretty smart business man, Paul. Are you sure it's wise to let your emotional response to a certain product's price stand in the way of your customers' satisfaction -- let alone your profit? Just as a point of interest, in 2009 Museum Glass provided more profit dollars to my little framing business than any other line item.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If Ms is getting more flaws per lite than I am I pity the fools!

Heck, we even got a fossil this week.
 

pwalters

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Any framer in this industry can match or beat Michaels price on every custom framing product they sell, except for Tru-Vue. It's wrong and it's unfair to every small business in this industry. Sell us that same product and at a comparable price.
Again, here is this assumption that just isn't entirely true. I know that I was competing against a M's bid that contained the same LJ moulding that I carry and they were less expensive than me on it. I was better on the mats and mounting (no fitting to compare to) but I lost on the SAME frame and also on this glass. Did I get mad? No, because I'm sure that they purchased that frame from LJ in a quantity that I can barely fathom. Where is the venom for LJ or any other moulding vendor who sells the same product to the big box? Why do they get a pass and TV doesn't?

I'm not trying to incite here, this is just so I can understand the perspective here, do you not think that M's buys a ton of this glass? Most likely they are going through millions of square feet a year. Likely they aren't requiring the same packaging and handling that those of us that order a box at a time do (which is a huge cost for a company like TV). Why wouldn't they be getting a much better price? It's just common sense, right? If a customer came in to your shop and wanted to get 40k pieces framed, all the same size and same materials. Just wood frame, glass and foam pointed in. No paper, back, final fitting, etc. Wouldn't that customer get a totally different price than the guy who wants 3 pieces, same frame, glass, mats in the same size with a full final fitting? Then add in that perhaps they are also including imperfect glass (equivalent of the 40k piece customer being willing to accept poor joins or quality) that would have likely ended up as waste cost, they are just that much more likely to get a better price. Right?

Just makes sense to me.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
IDK I'm framing with black mats all day today and I'm about to go drive my truck through my own front window just so I can close down. askjfhsdkjfkajshfkjahskjfhasjfad
 

KenKBConsulting

Grumbler in Training
For 20 years I owned a craft store that competed with Michaels and Hobby Lobby. It was completely understood that they were getting better prices. It's part of the rules of the game and the challenge is off-setting it with the things they cant do well.
One other thing- it takes industry volume to have an industry. Without the volume being driven by the big guys, there wouldn't be new products coming from vendors. The big boxes are a necessary part of competition in all of retail today. NEVER let their presence in the market keep you from offering the products your customer wants and our industry needs.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Without the volume being driven by the big guys, there wouldn't be new products coming from vendors. The big boxes are a necessary part of competition...
That is an excellent point about the economies of scale.
If Tru Vue weren't selling truckloads of glass to the largest users in the industry, it would probably cost us considerably more than it does. I shudder at the thought that if only small-shop framers (like me) were Tru Vue customers, the advanced coating technologies might not have been developed in the first place.
 

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
NEVER let their presence in the market keep you from offering the products your customer wants and our industry needs.
They also all want a Mercedes but drive GM autos. I'm sure I miss some Museum sales by not pushing it but it is not worth the time it takes to push. If only one out of every 50 customers buy it because of how high the price is the wasted time makes it not worth working that hard to sell.

Eventually a competitor will introduce a product that is much more reasonable in price and there will be a massive shift in who owns the picture framing glass industry. When that happens there will be no love lost on TV as their customers abandon ship like they are the Titantic.
 

FramerDave

PFG, Picture Framing God
One other thing- it takes industry volume to have an industry. Without the volume being driven by the big guys, there wouldn't be new products coming from vendors...
A perfect case in point: Nori Paste. It was a great product and everyone who used it still misses it. The company that produced and packaged it for FrameTek decided it was just too small for it to be worthwhile, so it's no longer around.

You can bet that if the Big Boxes had used it, and on a daily basis, it would still be available.
 

osgood

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
A couple of thoughts come to mind:

1. Interesting that you guys up there in USA are whining about the price you pay for MG. You pay 1/4 the price we pay down here! Most framers don't offer it and most of the ones who do offer it, don't sell much.

2. TV doesn't seem to offer surveys to us. Obviously don't care that miniscule quantities are sold down here!
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Guess you need a few M's down-under....


The only problem I had with the MG is when I couldn't order 3 lites anymore, but have to buy 4 lites, when their box qty changed.:fire::fire::fire:

I'm just a one person shop. Buying a new box of MG is an expense I have to, sometimes, think twice about. So, if I know I don't have any more stock, I might not offer it to the customer at that point....
Especially in a period when I'm just happy to be able to pay my bills... just saying.

Other than that, it's not that difficult to sell MG. Like anything else; you sell what you believe you can sell.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Really? Surely you have some data to support this? How about even a few examples? Anecdotal evidence? Anything at all?
I have seriously shopped for a less costly product comparable to Museum glass on two occasions. Both times I tried, I could not find one -- even before adding the shipping cost. I guess others have had similar experiences, because as far as I know, nobody on The Grumble has mentioned success in such a search.

But don't take my word for it. Shop around, as some of us have, and be sure to let us know if you find a UV filtering, optically coated glass that costs less than Museum Glass.

I challenge you again to name the comparable products you are referring to. You still haven't named one.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
For 20 years I owned a craft store that competed with Michaels and Hobby Lobby. It was completely understood that they were getting better prices. It's part of the rules of the game and the challenge is off-setting it with the things they cant do well.
One other thing- it takes industry volume to have an industry. Without the volume being driven by the big guys, there wouldn't be new products coming from vendors. The big boxes are a necessary part of competition in all of retail today. NEVER let their presence in the market keep you from offering the products your customer wants and our industry needs.

Ken, it's understood and accepted that Michaels purchasing power allows them to buy everything cheaper than you and I can.

In the case of this product, it's simply not available to us at all. And that is where the problem lies. Tru-Vue isn't even allowing us to compete because they won't sell us the less expensive Museum Glass.

Furthermore, they've gone so far as file a trademark that benefits one customer, allowing only Michaels to use that trademark "Masterpiece Glass". Then, they tell us it's an inferior product (but of course won't sell it to us), while telling the public "it's the best you can get, and it's only available from Michaels." Tru-Vue even writes thair ad copy for them. This is a company you want to do business with?

Here, read it for yourself:


The Ultimate Finishing Touch … Glass


Courtesy of Tru Vue®
Add to My Michaels You are both creative and passionate about the things you frame. We understand the sense of pride you get when you hang that special piece in your home. It’s our commitment to give you the very best, that’s why you count on Michaels.
Available exclusively at Michaels, Conservation Masterpiece™ glass from Tru Vue® is the clearest, best framing glass available. It’s the ultimate finishing touch to your framing project.

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayArticle?articleNum=ae0476

No Miller, I won't sell it and I won't recommend it. Because when I have to charge $200, and my customer discovers that Michaels' version is better, and about 1/3 the price, my customer is not coming back and will probably bad mouth me.

Tru-Vue needs to make this product available to us, and at a competitive price, just as all other manufacturers do with their products. Until they do, Tru-Vue is IMO the enemy of our industry and doesn't deserve our business. Every time you buy a Tru-Vue product, you're perpetuating the competitive imbalance that they've helped create.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I challenge you again to name the comparable products you are referring to. You still haven't named one
Paul, we've been through this before on The G, and you can find plenty of previous discussion in the archives. But maybe it's time to do it again...

Schott Mirogard Protect

Luxar Classic/Amiran TN

Flabeg ArtControl

Here's a thread from last year that give more details:
http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=41318

I believe there are other brands in Asia and Europe, as well, which are not widely available in The USA.

Usually when a thread comes to this point, someone mentions that non-UV-filtering, optically coated glass is available at lower prices than Museum Glass, and that certainly is true, but they are not comparable to Museum Glass. Some of them might be comparable to AR Glass, which is optically coated like Museum Glass, but not 99% UV-filtering, and not considered a conservation quality glazing.

FYI, according to the Image Permanence Institute and most conservators, conservation/preservation framing starts with glazing of 98% or better UV filtering in the range of 200-380 nanometers.
 

pwalters

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Ken, it's understood and accepted that Michaels purchasing power allows them to buy everything cheaper than you and I can.

In the case of this product, it's simply not available to us at all. And that is where the problem lies. Tru-Vue isn't even allowing us to compete because they won't sell us the less expensive Museum Glass.
Paul,

If you do fully accept the volume versus pricing issue, then what is the issue with the glass. It's the same stuff, just perhaps not as perfect and they are forcing M's to call it something different so as to not damage the Museum Glass brand (and some would say to minimize the "competition" issue)? They are just buying more of it and getting it cheaper. Therefore, they can sell it cheaper.

Again, I wonder why nobody has an issue with moulding vendors selling the same frames to them than you? It's the same stuff and I would bet that in many cases they most likely buy tons and can beat the prices of some smaller shops.

At the same time, if anyone ever came up with a price/quality competitive situation, I do think that TV would be in trouble for this M's move. Many framers do think that this is an unfair situation. However I'm sure it's profitable enough that TV felt it was worth the risk.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Paul, which do you believe - do you believe TV when they tell you it's "not as good," or do you believe TV when they tell Michaels' customers, "It's the best you can get and you can't get it anywhere else"?

I believe the latter, and that's what the public will believe too.

There are flaws in framing that the vast majority of customers won't notice. They can be on a mat in the form of a slight overcut; or on an obscure part of the frame. But the one thing that customers do that framers do is clean glass. As a result, no framer, including Michaels, can get away with giving a customer a frame that has even the slightest flaw in the glass. This includes, lint specs, fingerprints, a small crack or chip, a bubble, etc. Tru-Vue has never quantitatively demonstrated to any of us that the Michaels product is inferior. And their printed word says otherwise.

Tru-Vue is providing one customer with an unfair advantage that their other customers are not receiving. And the difference in price isn't based on volume. If it was, TV wouldn't need to tell us these stories; stories which are contradicted by what they are publishing on Michaels' website and in their stores.

Tru-Vue needs to make this product available to you and me.
 

pwalters

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Paul,

One other thing. Where is your shop and what glass are you selling if you aren't selling TV? Do they have a "Museum/Masterpiece" option that is competitive?
 
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