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TruVue Conservation Reflection Control Glass

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Greg Gomon, May 31, 2007.

  1. Greg Gomon

    Greg Gomon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    TruVue has evidently changed their reflection control conservation glass. The UV Filtered emulsion is now on the outside of the glass, same side as the non-glare surface. They claim this is to reduce costs. I have found the new glass scratches very easily. I discovered the "new" glass while trying to remove a speck of dust on the surface. As a result of how easy this glass scratches I can no-longer recommend using theTruVue brand of "Conservation Reflection Control Glass" (UV-Nonglare glass) to my customers. Anyone else having the same issues?
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  2. DawnStendin

    DawnStendin MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Nope, haven't notice the problem but wanted to say hi...I grew up in Santa Cruz. So....HI!
  3. Greg Gomon

    Greg Gomon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Hi Dawn!
    If you ever make it back "home" to Santa Cruz, stop by. We are located in Capitola, next door to the DMV. Are you located near Seattle?

    Be sure to check out your UV Reflection Control glass, I noticed the problem when working with our boxes of 32 x 40. I plan to send back 2 boxes for a refund.
  4. DawnStendin

    DawnStendin MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Greg, I would love to come "home". I don't mind it here...but I miss the ocean so much. Ahhhhh Capitola...my old stomping grounds. Back in the day when bikinis were dress code!
    I'll check out my glass. And look you up when I get down that way. :thumbsup:
  5. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    I have not heard about this. Did you get the "They claim this is to reduce costs" from TV?
    I have had some glass that the coating wiped off, they told me that there was a malfunction in the machine that bakes the coating.
    I guess that stuff was meant for M & JA.

    If this is truely the case I to will stop offering it. BTW I hate non-glare glass anyway.
  6. Sherry Lee

    Sherry Lee SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It is my understanding that to get the reflection control on this type of glass, it is etched. I can't imagine their putting the UV control film on the etched side. I'm glad you brought this up because I was going to check on this possible rumor today - didn't get to it.

    I have a customer that requested an oversize piece and I'm very reluctant to do it because I never promote any glass that is etched. And except for one customer in 10 years, I've never had a request for it.
  7. FramerPhil

    FramerPhil CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Product Testing - November 2006

    Two months ago when every one was complaining about the Michael’s Masterpiece Glass, In my thread, I forewarned everyone of this new CRC. I took part in the product testing for this glass back in November 2006, and was extremely disappointed with it then. I thought they sent me a bad box, but after talking to a product engineer, I found out that this was the new way they were going to make it. He told me it is more "environmentally friendly" to make. I really don't buy that. I think it's a cost-cutting issue. It now has a non-glare film, instead of acid-etching. Now the surface has a cracked clear coat look, and the UV film is on the outside (so the customer can scratch it). After talking to the product engineer, I took my complaint to the marketing manager, and he flat out said to me "I don't care if you don't buy a box of CRC ever again, I would rather see you buy museum glass". When handing in my survey for the testing, I also attached a 2 page letter expressing my disgust. I guess that didn't mean sh*t. It's a shame, cause they had a good product, and turned it into junk. Now I no longer sell CRC. Sorry guys, I tried my best:nuts: .
  8. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    We have not noticed this, but then we rarely sell non-glare. When requested, we sell UV Non-Glare Plex (TruVue OP3 non glare) because the etch seems to be more fine, thus allowing a bit more art visability. I use it in corporate situations where there is a lot of glare from office windows. Museum is too expensive, and so the Non glare UV acrylic works quite well.

    Thanks for the heads up on this.
  9. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    Thanks for the follow up. CRC is now gone at FrameMakers 3 stores. STUPID STUPID STUPID Tru-Vue. If Tru-Vue wanted to drop it they should have just done that, now there will be framers out there that will have to replace product a year or so after the fact because of this Bull.
  10. 2400

    2400 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I think now I know why suddenly TruVue started pushing the museum glass. They knew there will be a problem with the CRC glass. So what company would you you recommend instead of TruVue?
  11. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    This kind of upsets my applecart.

    CRC glass from TruVue is about 25% of my glass sales.

    Yet again I have been let down.

    If I had any options, I would no longer carry TruVue glass.

    These guys have just really got their head up their arse!

    Come on Larson Juhl! Lets get in the glass business and offer a product like Artique Glass! You have a loyal following and a built in group of customers, and distribution channels in place, and no reason not to.
  12. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Is there any way to tell before opening a new box whether it is the bad stuff? I had a box of 32x40 delivered yesterday. I only have one regular customer who prefers CRC, so I like to keep some in stock. Personally I have never been a big fan of RC glass.
  13. Ron L

    Ron L CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    The new version has green tape on the box. I've had some quality issues with the new crc. Two out of the four 40x50 lites I've handled had several flaws in the coating. I've called their framer support line when I got my first box with the flaws and the text stating which side faces the art was wrong. The rep told me about the new product and said it was well received by the test stores. I commented it would be suseptable to scratching with the coating on the outside and he agreed with me. After receiving my second box with defective product, I called again to complain. He took the lot # and said he would pass on the info. I doubt anything will change.
  14. Sherry Lee

    Sherry Lee SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Thank you FramerPhil for your efforts. It's people like you that help keep any industry on the 'straight and narrow'.

    I just got off the phone with Tru Vue myself as I have a customer wanting CRC - oversize. I've never promoted any glass that is etched, but if they insist, I'll get it for them. I was told that the films (both the "etched look" film and UV prot. film) are on the outside, but "they are hardened so scratching is LESS likely, but I can't promise you that it would never scratch". I vented that I felt it was a move backwards for T.V. and he stated that "we have received a lot of concerns about this and T.V. is looking into it".

    And for giggles, I asked how "Conserv. Masterpiece Glass" differs from Museum glass and was told that Conserv. Masterpiece Glass is "made to a different spec.".

    Nothing really new, but thought I'd share. Guess I'll call my customer and present the details about CRC.
  15. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    MY DonMar rep was in yesterday and warned me about it. I don't use it, and if and when someone asks UV NG then I am going to up them to Museum glass. seriously why get hazy glass?

    Guess it is coated on both sides, seems stupid to me, making scoring it a nightmare!
  16. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    And wouldn't you know it. The new box has green tape, the old had red.
  17. dougj

    dougj SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Have they come up with a process that the uv and rc are in the same film which means only one process?
    If this is true Now it comes out why TV added so many sizes of Museum glass. Are they expecting us to stock a lot of different sizes. I for one will not carry that kind (value) of inventory. If Ford only made the escort and Lincoln I don't think they would be around long.
    What other options do we have???
    Seems like TV is going in the wrong direction.
    Maybe we will wind up putting window glass on like 50 years ago.
    It's time for some other glass makers to step up to the plate.
    We as framers and marketers of their product should not have to have our hands tied.
    I will definitely check for the green tape
  18. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    CRC is our least-used type of glass anyway. The stock I have will last a little while. After that, I think the suggestion of using UV filtering nonglare acrylic is a good one. I prefer that surface to the etched glass surface anyway, and the UV property is within the acrylic so there's nothing to scratch.
    :cool: Rick
  19. Greg Gomon

    Greg Gomon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Thanks for everyone's comments. We don't have much of a call for Non-Glare glass. When our customers request it, there is a presumed need for the UV protection. We always suggest Museum Glass first, but cost is definitely an issue and rarely do our customers jump up to the added expense. For artwork with a dark background, either Reflection Control or Museum are the obvious choices. Otherwise there is so much reflection in the glass it becomes impossible to "see" the artwork. I am absolutely NOT going to recommend using the "new" CRC glass from TruVue. If I were to use the stuff, I will be replacing the CFC glass for my customers next year, because it scratched. I absolutely will not sell an inferior product, especially one I know in advance is problematic.

    I stopped by the TruVue booth at the Las Vegas show in January. They never mentioned a product change to me. We even signed up for the new advertising promotion using Museum Glass. I don't want to subscribe to a conspiracy theory, but, I think they knew in advance there was going to be a backlash to their "new" CRC glass and rather than listen to their customers (framers) they thought to release it and we (framers) will have to accept it. Well, WRONG! This was a huge blunder.

    So the next question becomes. Is there a replacement for CRC glass from TruVue? Plexi is of limited application. The drawbacks; it also scratches, harder to work with, plexi costs more than glass, higher labor costs for installation into a frame. We use quite a bit of UV plexi but it really doesn't make sense for all appications.

    I notified Larson-Juhl today to pick up our boxes of CRC glass. As a "Partner" I trust it may carry a little weight with L J. We will not offer CRC glass until we have a replacement brand. In the meantime, I hope TruVue realizes the mistake they made and rectify it soon, otherwise they are going to lose market share i.e. money.
  20. 2400

    2400 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    One more thing about the quality issues at TruVue. I recently noticed that some of the glass is covered with tiny black speckles, that glass cleaner won't take off. Sometimes you only notice it when you have a light background. This can be very frustrating when handling large pieces.
  21. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Can you say,"New Coke"?
    :vomit: Rick
  22. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Oh, if only this thread had been here a few days ago. That's when I pulled a lite of CRC out of a box and thought, "hmm, they printed the score-opposite-side message on the wrong side." Not realizing there was a product change, we had recently combined two partial cases of glass into one case, and all the other lites in the case had the text on the non-etched side, so I figured the one lite was just a misprint. Fortunately, the glass was for a frame that was deliberately constructed so as to have the contents be easily replaceable. Guess I need to call the customer and let her know the glass is in backwards. Ooops.

    Thanks for the heads-up. I'll be sure to keep the green-stripe glass separate from the red-stripe glass from now on. We've got an ongoing project with a corporate customer right now framing fire escape plans for their buildings, and they're using CRC on the frames. Guess we REALLY need to pay attention as we finish out the old stock and get into the new stuff, especially since we're minimizing scrap/cost by cutting 3 11x17 lites from a 22x28 piece for these jobs.
  23. Red Chair Framing

    Red Chair Framing Grumbler in Training

    Does TV Perfect View glass fit into this discussion?

    Hello, All, I just bought a box of Perfect View (it was on sale at my local supplier). I haven't opened the box yet, so before I do, if any of you have used this, any feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks! Sallie
  24. Val

    Val PFG, Picture Framing God

    It was our default glass when I worked at M's. Wear cotton gloves at all times when handling it. Fingerprints are practically non-removable, and I never did find a glass cleaner that would not streak like crazy.

    If you do get a spot on it, don't spray cleaner on it. Lightly spray your cloth instead. Better yet, "Hah" (breathe on it to get a fog) and lightly wipe that with a clean cloth.

    When cutting it on your wall cutter, be verrrry careful about sliding it, as it scratches (side that goes against the artwork, the "shiny side") by barely looking at it.

    We called it the Pain-in-the-###-Glass.
  25. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Try putting some rubbing alcohol on the spots with a q-tip, then remove. If that doesn't work, try a tiny dab of paint thinner. The alcohol and a bit of rubbing with a cleaning cloth usually does the trick.
  26. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    This is the response I received from one of my reps. I will give the box I received a try to see how things go.

    Ok, I have spoken to Brian Grider at Tru Vue this is
    what he said to me. The coatings are combined onto one
    side that should be away from the artwork. Smooth
    regular finish of glass on the inside. The new coating
    is a harder, tougher coating and this should not
    scratch as easily as the coating on Conservation
    Glass. He said that with this glazing, CRC, that one
    should use the Premium Cleaner, the purple stuff,
    denatured or 50%Alcohol is not recommended. He also
    recommends that you should spray a soft cloth with the
    cleaner and then wipe the glass. Do not spray the
    glazing, then wipe-spray cloth. One advantage is that
    with this new CRC you will notice less ripples from
    the UV coating. There will be some, but it will be
    much less than the typical Conservation Glass.
  27. Sherry Lee

    Sherry Lee SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    As I (and others) wrote in previous posts, TruVue said virtually the same. PERSONALLY, I am not going to put any product into my work that "SHOULD not scratch as easily". I'm not one to look forward to unhappy customers and a bunch of 'redo's'.

    And to expect customers to always use special cleaners is just not reasonable.

    I've always held Tru Vue in very high regards and can only trust that they will QUICKLY put this on their R&D calendars and make right!!
  28. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Spoke to a TruVue rep (not mine) who admitted that the CRC surface is quite scratchable and personally felt it was a mistake to change the product and a bigger mistake not to notify customers ahead of time of any change.

    As far as Museum glass goes ...I've noticed black specks that are within the glass ...not on either surface but embedded in the glass. Fortunately, so far, the flaws have been near the edge and haven't affected the usability on jobs that I've used the glass on.

    Maybe they shipped me mislabeled Masterpiece Glass???
  29. 2400

    2400 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I smell Kung Pao
  30. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    What stripes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally this post discussed the True Vue CRC (Conservation Reflection Control) glass (which I believe has an orange stripe on the box). Seems that now we are talking about a green stripe replacing the red stripe! Are we talking about the normal-reflection conservation glass which always had a red & blue stripe on the box!!!

    Which glass is changing - CRC - the orange stripe - now to a green??????
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2007
  31. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    Conservation Reflection Control - orange writing on box with red tape - good
    Conservation Reflection Control - orange writing on box with green tape - bad
    Conservation Clear - blue and red writing on box

    HB, does this help?
  32. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Thanks - I've never noticed any "tape"! I checked too. Where is the tape?
  33. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    I've got 3 boxes of conservation reflection control:
    36 X 48 with red tape, used some, ok
    32 X 40 ditto
    24 X 36 clear tape, unopened....now what? I'm afraid to open it!
  34. picthisri

    picthisri Grumbler

    Tru vue CRC glass

    I just heard about this bright new idea by Tru Vue. What are they smoking? I have 3 stores, and no longer will buy CRC by Tru Vue. Other framers I know will be dropping it. Although this could be a great marketing tool to get us to switch to higher priced museum glass. I understand there is a glass shortage nationally with sheet glass in general. Perfect timing to switch the CRC, so when the prices go up soon..... as they will , we will say it's not the company, it is the industry and thus reach yet another rising cost for our customers.
    Picture This
  35. Kimmy

    Kimmy Grumbler

    I do my best to talk my customers out of the reflection control glass. They will usually switch to AR glass, eventhough they don't like the price and cleaning is a B*tch!
  36. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    Kimmy, mine usually go for Museum Glass instead, or U.V. non glare acrylic, which has a more fine etch and looks pretty good in corporate situations.
  37. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    The tape is what holds the boxes shut. There is usually clear tape on conservation clear. Yellow tape on non-glare. Clear on regular. I have notified the vendor I got the CRC from to pick up the green tape box. I only have one regular customer who requests CRC.
  38. Handy

    Handy MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    so how is the customer supposed to clean this stuff when they take it home, if the coating is on the outside and can't be cleaned with conventional cleaners???

    I can't even IMAGINE trying to explain this to some of our customers!!! Talk about a bad move......
  39. stud d

    stud d SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I would start buying little bottles from the dollar store, fill it up with cleaner and offer free refills. Easy, yup.

  40. Mecianne

    Mecianne SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Just opened a box of CRC w/green tape. I am on my third sheet and so far, it all has a line of spots from one end to another.

    Roller marks from applying the coating? They aren't coming off.

    I rarely use this glass, thank goodness, but there does seem to be a pattern here that there is definitely some probs with their latest batch of glass.
  41. Greg Gomon

    Greg Gomon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    It's official in my store. We are nolonger offering Conservation Reflection Control TruVue Brand Glass. We will offer to substitute Conservation Reflection Control Plexiglass at no additional charge to the customer.
    Customers seem willing to accept our offer. It is slightly more expensive for us, but worth the piece-of-mind not dealing with all the problems of the "new" TruVue glass.

    I find it interesting that TruVue has not responded to our little thread about their glass. You would hope and think they CARE about our concerns...even just a little bit.
  42. Doug Gemmell

    Doug Gemmell SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    The only way to get their attention is if more people like you continue to find alternatives to their products.
  43. stud d

    stud d SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Tru Vue is aware of this thread. When I called to find out about the CRC they told me that they know of the thread.

    If they change that is another story

  44. realhotglass

    realhotglass MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I'm not 100% sure, but wouldn't Greg be offering * TV * Conservation Reflection Control Plexiglass ?

    You may have other choices over there . . .
  45. Greg Gomon

    Greg Gomon CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    TruVue Plexiglass? Not unless Cyro Industries in Rockaway NJ, is owned by TruVue!
  46. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Cyro's trade name is Acrylite. My understanding is that, through a successful marketing agreement, Tru Vue purchases Acrylite from Cyro. The Acrylite sheets are sized, coated, packaged, and distributed by Tru Vue's network of framing distributors.

    Whenever possible, I buy Tru Vue's Acrylite products through my day-to-day framing suppliers. The purchasing convenience, transportation cost savings, and framing-standard packaging far outweigh the small price-per-sheet savings of buying from the industrial distributors, who also sell Acrylite products.

    Plexiglas is a trade name of another company, unrelated to both Tru Vue and Cyro. Tru Vue does not buy Plexiglas, as far as I know.
  47. YooperFramer

    YooperFramer MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    dang it.
    I just looked at my case of CRC and it has the dreaded green tape

    I am sure I'll be returning it to my glass rep if I hate this batch.
    thanks for the heads up here.
  48. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    I think I will jump on here too. I need to order a 40x50 box of CRC for a project. I happen to have a big enough piece of the CRC Plexi here in the shop, it will save me the headache of having to deal with the new glass.....
  49. Bluewing

    Bluewing True Grumbler

    Another Unhappy Customer

    Well I just opened my first box last night not knowing they had changed the glass. I looked at it and thought what the #### are those streaks and then looked closer and seen what appears to be wavy lines. I thought bad piece of glass grabbed a second one and then same thing then looked at them all and the same. Well thought I got a bad box. Opened the next box same thing now I am pissed. I got jobs that require this glass and I can not do them now.

    So I thought hey has anyone else run into this. Decided to check the grumble and low and behold it was and eye opener. We all are having the same complaints.

    I then called tru vue and I spoke with ed on the help line. He told me that they sent this out for framers to try. They received only 1 complaint is what he told me.

    So my question is this, did any of you test this glass??

    How many samples went out 2, 10, 20 ??

    Anyone with information on this blunder please let me know.

    Why does this make me mad because 90% of what we sell is CRC.

    Tru vue if you read this you need to go back to what it was before you screwed it up.
  50. FramerPhil

    FramerPhil CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I tested it

    I tested it. If they got 1 complaint, well it was mine. Look at the first couple of postings to this thread. I don't think the people that tested it with me really looked at what they were working with. It really bothers me, because I guess Tru Vue thought I was crazy when I handed in my survey and my letter of disgust. I think their logic was more along the lines of "we spent so much time, money, and R&D, let's just keep moving forward. This guy's crazy". Back in January/ February, I got a letter from Tru Vue saying that they were proud to announce that almost everyone thought the new glass was just as good, if not better. When I read it, I was thinking "what the F?" It kind of makes me feel a little better that other people are now seeing it the same way I did. I am sure someone at Tru Vue is now kicking themselves in the butt. If they don't change, that glass will be off the market in two years, cause sales will be so low.
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