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TruVue Conservation Reflection Control Glass

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by Greg Gomon, May 31, 2007.

  1. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    I don't sell much non glare stuff so haven't paid much attention to this thread until I had a problem today. Just speed read the thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned this one.

    The problem is with Tru Vu Conservation Clear though, but it's relative.

    The wording at the bottom of the sheets of glass reads "Tru Vu (blah) this side faces artwork - score opposite side" Yes?

    Well - I only ever get as far as reading 'Tru Vu' normally - if it's back to front and inside out I'm on the right side to score, if I can read it, I turn it around.

    But today I read the whole thing and it said "Opposite side faces artwork - score opposite side"

    Say WHAT?

    I rang my supplier and they said they'd had a lot of calls and what they reckon it means is "Opposite side faces artwork and so score the opposite side to that"!

    But no - I tried without doing the normal tests (water beads more on the coated side - non coated side can be cleaned with 0000 grade steel wool - coated side will get wrecked.

    It shattered when I tried to snap it and am claiming that sheet back from the supplier that gave me the advice.

    So - it seems that Tru Vu WANT us to have the coated side facing out - does this perhaps offer more UV protection?

    Not doing it anyway!
  2. Twin2

    Twin2 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    That's weird, John. My Tru Vue Con Clear glass has "This Side Faces Artwork, Score Opposite side" written along the edge. Now, I haven't purchased any new cases for a few months, so perhaps what you have is something new.

    I had a few problems with a case of Con Clear last December and ended up ruining 3 lites when I scored/snapped the score line. I thought it was due to my glass cutter and replaced the head on it. It seemed to fix the problem I was having, but some Grumblers had suggested that I might have had a bad batch of glass.

    P.S. As per other Grumblers' suggestions, I always double check which is the coated side of the Con Clear glass by taking my X-acto knife and try making a small scratch in one of the corners - if it scratches, I know that is the side with the coating and I put it against the artwork. Maybe Tru Vue has changed the Con Clear glass too :shrug:
  3. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    I would have thought you'd see any changes in the USA before we did here. But yes, this was my newest box and the last sheet too.

    What was I thinking - I'd used the other sheets as per usual - If I can't read it - score it - but this just totally did my head in -'Opposite side faces artwork' OK - so that's the coated one 'score opposite side' er - so it's not then????

    Thought maybe it was just this sheet that was printed differently - someone in the factory had maybe been given a week's notice and was getting some revenge!

    BTW - I only do any tests to establish which side is which if I have an offcut with no words on - I usually write 'score' with a fine felt pen on an edge of those too.
  4. Twin2

    Twin2 SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I only did tests on my offcuts too, until I read a couple of posts from some Grumblers saying that they had come across sheets of Con Clear where the writing was printed on the wrong side. From then on, I've been doing the quick scratch test just as a double check.
  5. RoboFramer

    RoboFramer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Ahh - not come across that problem yet.

    If and when I do my supplier can replace FOC the stuff I shatter as a result.

    After all - they make me sign a form on delivery, stating that I have received the glass in good conition - like I've time to check it all for scratches and blemishes.
  6. Terry Scidmore CPF

    Terry Scidmore CPF MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    My apologies to you, Jerry. I misunderstood the intent of your post.

    Yes, the customer was back in this afternoon to see if I could get those fingerprints off the glass before he gave it to his client. I think it was BK grease, however, not McD.
  7. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Okay - now I am getting confused !

    Is this correct for all glass:

    1. Don't score the scratchiest side
    2. Scratchiest side faces artwork (EXCEPT on CRC where non-glare side faces out)

    Thanks for thinking!
  8. stud d

    stud d SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    HB you seem confusingly right!

  9. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God


    Not to confuse you but, both sides are the 'scratchiest' on Museum glass. You have to look for the blue/purple tint and that goes to the outside.
  10. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    Must be those Trans-Fats. McD says that they removed theirs.

  11. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I always do the scratch test after I fitted four relatively large frame packages and accidentally scratched the front side of one in handling. I thought I screwed up and opened up the frame package only to find the printing on the wrong side. I had to refit all four and replace the damaged glass. :fire:

    The coating side on museum glass is much more "scratchier" than the other side. I've even used a razor blade to clean the outside on museum glass without a scratch.
  12. realhotglass

    realhotglass MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Sign, then write STI (subject to inspection) next to signature.
    Besides immediate inspections not being practical where drivers are under pressure to get away, there are many products that might stay closed up for weeks before needed for use (CC etc).

    Reading the various threads about TV coated clear and non glare in the past months, I feel it way past time they clarified just what changes they are making / have made, and how best to handle, cut, treat their products (that is, if there are any new manufacturing processes etc).

    Surely they must have a system to advise changes as major as different coatings being applied, coating being reversed when framing, cutting sides being reversed, how best to look after new products, etc.

    Distributors should be fully informed and educated re the above (maybe this has happened), then they should be passing this on to users (maybe this hasn't happened).

    Possibly fact sheets could be made up and sent out via distributors.

    The whole schemozzle could do great harm to how the industry views TV and other speciality coated glass products, setting back many years of advances in perceptions of glazing materials.
  13. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    Back it Goes

    We have scheduled a pick up of our TV Conservation Reflection Control Glass next week. We had to order a case because a customer had a broken piece which needed replacement. We had trouble with that one piece, called the LJ rep, and back goes the whole case for credit. We are taking the product off our price list and will only sell TV UV non-glare acrylic for the non-glare look. Corporate seems to like it. For home use we are encouraging the use of Museum Glass for the glare-free option.

    That's the best way I can think of to get the message to Tru-Vue. Vote with our glass budget. Meanwhile I'd like to see more Museum Glass sizes. Wrapping up the scrap is not productive and we are accumulating too much of it.
  14. realhotglass

    realhotglass MGF, Master Grumble Framer


    What sizes in TV Museum are available to you there ?
    (Over here it's just 48" x 36".)

    You may have to allow a little more for wastage with this glass.
    Can you actually look at your offcuts, work out about how many sheets it's all from, and calculate your approx wastage ?
    My guess is around 30% for coated glass from 48 x 36 size.

    If you allow the right wastage, you get an opportunity to give a prospective new-ish client an upgrade from CC to Museum from some of your offcuts (that you KNOW you'll have to ditch one day anyway).

    Mind you smaller sizes only !

    It's something that will wow them.
    Not only with the job, but you can surprise them with the upgrade when they collect it.
    Say something like you had a small piece perfect for their piece and you thought their art really deserved it, so put it on at no extra charge as a special once of for them.
  15. Hired Help

    Hired Help SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    I just used the last lite of a box of 24x36 TV CC glass. I bought it at the begining of July. Every lite had "opposite side faces artwork score opposite side" printed on it!

    Like you, I don't normally bother to read the whole message. If the printing is backwards, that's the side to score. However, on the first lite I cut, the repetion of the word opposite caught my eye.

    So, "Yes", it's on this side of the pond too.

    Bet there is a lot more of it out there, just no one else has noticed.

  16. Carol A. Johanningsmeier

    Carol A. Johanningsmeier CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    I had two 32x40 conservation clear boxes with the screwy writing on it, but the latest box has been artwork faces this side, score opposite side. I put a little post-it tab on the side that is scored when I have left overs. It makes it easy to spot when cutting.

    I sent the box of CRC (with green tape) back and we no longer will carry it. I did try to find out if any of my distributors had the before change boxes.
  17. stud d

    stud d SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Is this the Never Ending Thread?

  18. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God


    Most distributors of TV-Museum will carry 16 x 20, 18 x 24, 20 x 30, 24 x 36, 32 x 40, 36 x 48, and 40 x 60.

    Having a variety of sizes, IMO, lessens the amount of waste, in the long run, and reduces the possibility of damaging the glass with multiple re-handling.
  19. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Decor July 2007

    From p. 23 of July's Decor issue:

    "Tru Vue officials announce enhancements to the company's Conservation Reflection Control product. The functionality...is the same or better in every aspect including UV protection, non-glare finish and handling, officials say. Officials say the product enhancements are due to environmentally friendly changes in Tru Vue's manufacturing process."

    Hmm, are these the "enhancements" that have been discussed on this thread, or are they enhancements in response to the grumbling?
  20. Ron L

    Ron L CGF, Certified Grumble Framer

    That has been their line since the new product was released. I just got a 30 piece job requesting CRC and I suspect I'll being asking my supplier for some credits because of flaws in the product.
  21. Lance E

    Lance E Member

    Nope, that has no additional protection whatsoever here - that is simply for the carrier anyhow. You might as well write "GBW" (Goose Broke Wind). If something gets damaged and it is the carrier who caused the problem, despite signitures they have the ability to pay it out.

    Can a poll be created for the likers and dislikers of the new product? We are yet to get any here and it sure would be a usefull poll.
  22. Cliff Wilson

    Cliff Wilson SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm guessing they will be VERY pleased taht their "enhancement" will lead to more Museum glass sales!! :faintthud: :icon45:
  23. dougj

    dougj SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    We are discontinuing to offer TV CRC and going to return all for credit.
    We tried the new green tape.
    Out of 3 orders 1 has already come back scratched.
    Cannot work on a 1/3 rejection rate.
  24. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    I understand your concern Doug, but couldn't you say the same for AR or Museum glass?

    It also has a film on the outside and is vulnerable to scratches.

    So what options are you going to give your customers for glass now?

    I have over the past few years trimmed my offerings to 4. Non-TruVue plain glass (because of price), CC, CRC, and Museum from TruVue.

    Are you going to limit your customers to just 2 or 3 choices?

    Two of the most successful framers I have ever met only offers plain glass, but that is for a different thread.
  25. dougj

    dougj SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    We are going to continue to offer Plain glass, CC, RC, Museum from Tru Vue and Acrylic.
    We had no problems with CRC until they put the C on the outside.
    I do realize that others have coatings (CC is inside) but we have not had any problems with them. We have not had any museum or even acrylic returned.
    This customer was not a satisfied customer. She is not really mad but this set us back in her eyes. Our fault or not it reflects on our quality. We try to offer our customer the best product we can and CRC at this point does not fit into that category.
    Plus; I don't like the change TV made so I won't offer it. My choice.
  26. FF_Hoboken

    FF_Hoboken Grumbler

    is this still problem or is it workable?

    if I understand correctly, the anti-reflective coating is on the outside similiar to museum glass and uv coating faces artwork.

    is the outside coating more fragile than museum glass or similiar?

    I still fret at times how museum glass will hold up over the long term in a normal household, hired house cleaners and multiple moves...
  27. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    I'm using it.
  28. 2400

    2400 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I just noticed that the regular RC glass scratches as well on the RC side (which is the outside), that is pretty lame. Can't wait to spend some extra money on replacing them when unhappy people start bringing them back. I love the way Tru Vue controlls the future of my company.
  29. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    That's exactly why many of us don't use this product anymore. When TV made this change,using a coating on the outside of the glass, we dropped RC. We even sent cases back. We use non-glare acrylic when we need that look, or preferably, Museum Glass.
  30. 2400

    2400 CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Do you know of another company that makes reflection control glass? I am ready to make the switch from Tru Vue. I don't understand why they had to make a change in a product that was good enough. Instead of creating weak marketing thricks like the "Secret Shopper" deal they should create products again that work.
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