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Unreasonable charge

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by simplymatted, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. simplymatted

    simplymatted SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I took three different mouldings to get cut down to a supplier. I was charged $80.00.

    Ill save more details for later. But that seemed to be a bit excessive. The bill is in attachment.
     

    Attached Files:

    American Picture Frame Academy 1-888-840-9605

    The American Picture Framing Academy Learn Picture Framing Now
  2. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    According to that invoice, their labor rate is $320/hr. Ouch.
     
  3. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I read the invoice as they charged 1-hour labor to recut 3 frames (12 rails)
     
  4. simplymatted

    simplymatted SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer


    Thats what they did.
     
  5. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    To me it looks like they charge $80/hr. and they billed for four 1/4 hour units @ $20 each.
    :cool: Rick
     
    shayla likes this.
  6. FramerCat

    FramerCat SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I have so many questions about this. Are these mouldings that this particular supplier sold to you? Is this not the price that they quoted you beforehand? What kind of price were you expecting to pay? What if they had messed up the cut? What would you have expected of them in that situation?


    I prefer to encourage my customers to buy the frames that I sell so if someone were to come to me with moulding that they just want chopped I’d be pretty likely to charge them about $20+ for each. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, but I might be missing some things.


    Ed
     
    Aiden, David Waldmann and IFGL like this.
  7. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    To continue FramerCat's comment, I get people asking us to cut down an existing frame about twice a year. I have a flat "no".

    -It would not earn enough money to be worth the time and risk
    -If I were to charge enough, the people asking would not want to pay that much or would think we're a shop which overcharges in general.
    -It dissuades people from buying the product we sell: Frames.

    The way I think of it: If I brought my own spaghetti from home to a restaurant, asked them to wash the red sauce off, and make it with a cream sauce, would the restaurant be likely to charge me more, or less, than fresh pasta from their menu?
     
    Kirstie, prospero, Gilder and 2 others like this.
  8. bruce papier

    bruce papier MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I agree with the previous replies. I think your supplier is trying to make a point.
     
  9. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Question: Do you not have any sort of cutting apparatus in your shop?
    :cool: Rick
     
  10. Corbin Dallas

    Corbin Dallas Grumbler in Training

    If the shop took your length moulding (sticks) and just cut it to your specified dimensions, the $20 per piece price doesn't seem outlandish to me.

    If the shop took larger existing frames, broke them apart and cut them down according to your specs, and then re-joined them into completed new frames, then you got a very good deal.
     
    Joe B and shayla like this.
  11. MnSue

    MnSue SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    $5 pre corner = $20
    4 frames x $20

    what is your customer service time to write up the special order, labor/time for everyone involved, equipment, wrapping, shipping if needed etc cost?
    $20 a frame = Thank you for helping me out vendor!
     
    Corbin Dallas, Joe B and Dave like this.
  12. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Cutting down frames is risky business, as noted by others above. What happens if something goes wrong? The price reflects the risk, and the need for extra care in the work.

    If you are not pleased with your supplier's charge, I suggest you contact your representative and appeal. Maybe there was a misunderstanding of some sort. In any case, it would be a good idea to ask the price in advance, next time.
     
    Corbin Dallas, Joe B and DarthFramer like this.
  13. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ask yourself this: If you did the same job, what would you charge? :D
     
    DSR7 likes this.
  14. Joe B

    Joe B SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I think the price is very reasonable. If you do not like the price purchase the equipment and go through the schooling to learn how to do it yourself - I can guarantee it will cost you much more than what was charged. Next time get the cost before doing the work - that would save a mess of hard feelings.
     
    Corbin Dallas, prospero and DSR7 like this.
  15. DSR7

    DSR7 True Grumbler

    I see nothing wrong with their charge.

    The vast majority of the population probably thinks the same thing about the charges we custom framers put forth. Actually, there's no "probably" about that.
     
    Corbin Dallas and prospero like this.
  16. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Without the full,story, hard to judge.

    I would charge the same if a customer asked this from me, depending on the customer.

    How much business do you do with this supplier?
    Is it their own moulding they are recutting?
    Why did it need a recut?
     
    Corbin Dallas likes this.
  17. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Having re-read the OP's post:
    "I took three different mouldings to get cut down to a supplier. I was charged $80.00."

    The only way I understand this sentence is that you brought mouldings, which you already owned, for them to cut.
    Unsure whether this means you bought this from them, or another supplier.

    -If it was a supplier which did not originate the mouldings, then I am surprised they cut it down at all for any price.

    -If it was a supplier which DID supply it, I can understand they don't want the potential of millions-of-feet of moulding potentially coming to them to be cut down, and the price seems appropriate to control that.

    -If it was NOT brought from your shop, but instead was cut at the time of purchase from that supplier, that is probably the only time I would consider this charge to be a little excessive (unless it was "chop" where the measurements need to be precise).

    Can you clarify which of the three above scenarios it was?
     
    Corbin Dallas, prospero and tedh like this.
  18. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Let's all face it, the original post is incomplete with the facts. This happens way too much on THE GRUMBLE via many posters. Speculation is the name of the game if they are to get any response from the group.
     
    prospero and cjmst3k like this.
  19. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Just the facts Ma'am.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    Tough crowd, eh Simply? :cool:

    I guess the best you can get from this is to make sure and ask price ahead of time. I'm curious as to whether you took in loose sticks or assembled frames.
    Unless it goes really quickly, that's fairly close to what we'd charge. Taking time to cut and sand each leg adds up. Your thread has me thinking about a couple
    of other things we do. Every couple of years, someone will want to order in length to cut themselves. I just tell them it's priced the same, so the only difference
    is they'd save our ship & join fee. When they hear that, they usually decide not to. The few folks who have persisted, I've told them we need to more length than
    they think they need, to account for possible flaws, and they need to be willing to buy all of it. That's what we as framers have to do, so it's realistic.

    The other thing is, now and then someone wants us to cut a window in their mat. We charge almost what a new mat would cost retail.
     
    David Waldmann and Corbin Dallas like this.
  21. alacrity8

    alacrity8 MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Consider how much per foot a chop is compared to length moulding.
    It is often twice the price of the length cost.

    We charge $5 a side for cutting down a frame, and $5 a corner for joining.
    We only do this for good customers, that understand that something might go wrong.
    You either paid about our chop cost, or about half of our chop and join price.

    It is always best to confirm pricing before placing an order.

    Best of luck on your projects.

    Brian
     
  22. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have had people wanting frames cut down and rejoined. The problem is that they have no conception of
    the practicalities. Breaking the corners will sometimes fetch a splinter out which reduces the usable length.
    Then you have the ironmongery that may be embedded. On older frames there will often be nails that have
    snapped off inside and if there is a rusty fragment it invariably will be in the path of the cut. :confused:

    Had a chap one day haul in a couple of old frames. About 3" wide profile with applied gesso ornamentation.
    Bits were missing and actively flaking off. On frames like this the beauty is only skin-deep. The carcass is very
    often very rough pine and doesn't take kindly to cutting and re-joining. The coating gets very delicate with age
    and the process would detach chunks of gesso which would all have to be caught and glued back in place.
    He wanted them done while he waited. :(
    I told him that would be a very long-winded exercise.
    "What's the problem?" he replied. "You have the equipment don't you?" o_O

    Another guy had a 12ft long Chinese scroll (rolled) and wanted a mat cut - while he waited. :D
     
    alacrity8 likes this.
  23. JFeig

    JFeig SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    True. The unknown is the s**t that I have to use to make a new frame.
     
    prospero likes this.
  24. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    People have no clue about the details and potential pitfalls.
    :cool: Rick
     
    prospero likes this.
  25. cjmst3k

    cjmst3k SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm glad that my nice looking shop scares most of the crazies away.
     
    Rick Granick and prospero like this.
  26. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    It's the "Can't you just......" syndrome. o_O I had a lady who wanted a bridesmaid's dress framed. It was for a small bridesmaid
    but still a tricky job. I gave her a quick quote of 400GBP. In actuality I would have needed to charge much more, but that was
    enough to scare her off. She said she didn't want to spend that much (surprisesurprise) and said she would go to a local discount
    store and get a readymade poster frame. No idea that the actual physical frame was maybe less than 10% of the cost. The tricky
    bit was getting the dress into a state where it could go in a frame. I don't know whether she proceeded with her plan, but I would
    have loved to have been there when she came to fitting it all together. :D
     
    Rick Granick likes this.
  27. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Might I suggest "any time now" would be good?
     
    cjmst3k likes this.
  28. Rick Granick

    Rick Granick SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Exactly. In Jay Goltz's pricing class at WCAF he always says, "Here's a 4-letter word you want to beware of..." and the he writes on the white board: J U S T .
    :cool: Rick
     
    Kirstie, Jim Miller and prospero like this.
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